Pocket Carry. Really?

[David E]

CTPhil, What don't you get? I've said repeatedly my priorities are different. For example, I live on the wild side and wear my shirt untucked in public!

I've said that pocket carry has its place, but that its shortcomings should be honestly addressed. This seems to really get some folks quite agitated.

I have said several times that any gun in a pocket is preferable to a "better" gun left at home.

How is that pigeonholing everyone else?

 

[David E]

Mavracer, good for you! You're the first pocket carry proponent that practices AND knows how fast the draws are.

Everyone else simply speculates, yet, somehow, they just "know" they'll be able to draw in time, even tho they don't practice.

 

[Warp]

Everyone else simply speculates, yet, somehow, they just "know" they'll be able to draw in time, even tho they don't practice.

...and you get this from?

 

[David E]

Observed reality.

 

[CTPhil]

CTPhil, What don't you get? I've said repeatedly my priorities are different. For example, I live on the wild side and wear my shirt untucked in public!

I've said that pocket carry has its place, but that its shortcomings should be honestly addressed. This seems to really get some folks quite agitated.

What you actually said was that people pocket carry because that are lazy. Spin it all you want but the horse is out of the barn.

 

[Warp]

Observed reality

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Get off your high horse already.

 

[420Stainless]

Pocket carry is the only way for me when its above 80 degrees outside (which is about 7 - 8 months of the year in my area). I'm not gonna torture myself in the heat around here for cover garments and a gun belt. I prefer the option of having my hand on the grips without brandishing even if the trade off is some time. When its cooler I prefer to carry a commander for shootability, but still don't give a hoot about the fractions of time I might save on the draw. I'm happy with any tradeoffs involved. I practice for control, but not for speed.

 

[mavracer]

Everyone else simply speculates, yet, somehow, they just "know" they'll be able to draw in time, even tho they don't practice.

It ain't just the guys who pocket carry.

I've said that pocket carry has its place, but that its shortcomings should be honestly addressed. This seems to really get some folks quite agitated.

It's actually your refusal of recognizing the advantages that seem to be causing a lot of it.

 

[David E]

What you actually said was that people pocket carry because that are lazy. Spin it all you want but the horse is out of the barn.

Ok, apparently my word "lazy" really upset the thin-skinned. Upon reflection, I should've said "stubborn" or "defiant" or........

 

[Guillermo]

Actually David...you should have said "vain" or a "slave to fashion".

Perhaps "willing to compromise safety for fashion"

Guess I have an advantage. I know I am ugly and tucking in my shirt ain't gonna change it.

 

[David E]

Saying it doesn't make it so.

Get off your high horse already.

Apparently I don't run in the same elite circles as you, where everyone practices, is highly skilled and no one embellished their skill level. No, I just run with normal folks.

Like my friends dad, who never went to the range, but stated with the utmost confidence that he "knew he was good enough to blow a man in 1/2" with his Browning Hipower. A couple years later, I got him to the range where, sadly, he didn't know which was the safety and which wad the slide release. Or the cop that "knew" he could do a sub-one second reload....that turned out to be over 3. Or the other cop that "knew" he had a sub-one second draw from his duty rig that was also over 3.

So, warp, how fast is your pocket draw? Mavracer listed his......

 

[David E]

It's actually your refusal of recognizing the advantages that seem to be causing a lot of it.

Where have I refused to recognize the advantages? Do you even read my posts? I've said multiple times pocket carry has it's advantages. The biggest one being it allows some people to have a gun on them when they otherwise wouldn't. That's a pretty big advantage that I've acknowledged several times.

Dang, people!

 

[Warp]

So, warp, how fast is your pocket draw? Mavracer listed his......

So now you have gone from saying pocket carriers don't practice, due to laziness, to asking me specifically what I have timed myself at. Think you could backpedal away from your previous claims any faster?

 

[David E]

Few people practice, including pocket carry advocates.

Think you could distort my statement further?

I did notice you refused to answer my question.

 

[Warp]

I do not own a shot timer. Most people, even those who are well practiced, do not have a shot timer plus a range where others are not shooting in which to use it.

The only thing I have timed is a Glock 17 out of a level II retention duty holster from when I was in the academy. At the quickest and closest the target faced for 1.5 seconds, during which time we reacted, drew, stepped backward and fired 2 rounds.

 

[David E]

That's interesting....

The cop I referred to who thought he had a sub-one second reload "timed" himself using the same method.

The targets would face for two seconds, face away for one second, then face again for two seconds. Shooters were to draw and fire two for the first facing, RELOAD WHILE IT FACED AWAY FOR ONE SECOND, then reengage with two rds when it faced again.

The reality was, the pneumatics would fire up at least a full second before the targets actually turned. Everyone already had their gun out, as most started with their hand on the gun. As soon as the targets faced, a fast two were fired and the reload begun....before the target faces away for one second. Essentially, everyone had 3.5-4 seconds to do their reload. But since he was waiting on the target to face again, he thought he had a sub-one second reload. He was mistaken, no matter how much he believed otherwise.

So, if I have this straight, you have no idea how fast your pocket draw is, or what your IWB/OWB draw is, much less how they compare.

I do hope you practice....don't you?

 

[Warp]

You call that the same method? ROFL. Sure thing buddy, sure thing.

You need to stop acting as though your own personal decision and choice of methods is the single best aswer for everybody.

 

[David E]

Go back and read my posts.

If pocket carry is what it takes for you to carry a gun, then great.

And be honest, you reacted at the mechanism or pneumatics firing up, didn't you! If you had an updated system, then at the very least you reacted when the target started moving, thereby giving you another 1/2 second on each side of the target facing.

 

[mavracer]

Where have I refused to recognize the advantages?

gosh I don't know maybe when you continually make excuses as to why I can't start with a full grip on the gun in my pocket. which I see as a huge advantage. because I can and have done that even when I have the ability to draw the other gun from my IWB strongside.

 

[Mike1234567]

Wow... all this bickering. I feel like I'm married again but without the side benefits.

 

[skoro]

Really.

It's nearly my exclusive means of carry. PF-9, P3AT, or S&W 642. Works for me.

YMMV

 

[David E]

gosh I don't know maybe when you continually make excuses as to why I can't start with a full grip on the gun in my pocket. which I see as a huge advantage. because I can and have done that even when I have the ability to draw the other gun from my IWB strongside.

Go back and read my posts.

In Post #15 I said that "having your hand on the gun is great when you can do it...."

In Post #18, I say "having your hand is a great technique" (for a backup gun, ideally)

Kinda deflates your superfluous accusations, eh?

 

[Rexster]

I don't know about being a slave to fashion, as I have no fashion sense, but my Dad always seems to wear button-up shirts, with collars, with square-cut tails, un-tucked, even to church, except on occasions when he wears a suit, and he is a non-gun person. (not anti-gun, just non-gun) He is age 78 now, and of course, retired, but he worked in what I reckon we would term a business-casual environment, for a major oil company, and wore his shirts the same back then, with dress slacks and dress shoes.

Living in the South, near the Gulf Coast, tails-out has been normal for decades.

I just thought I would mention this, as a FWIW.

 

[EmGeeGeorge]

Yep. Bickering.

Carry how you wanna carry.

Lotsa Mall-Ninjery in threads lately, from the same people.

I carry a j-frame in my pocket sometimes. I carry and lcp other times. On occasion I carry an xd or even a makarov IWB open topped.

I shoot them each regular enough to know I can put 'em center mass on a person at at 3 feet, at 7 yards, at 25 yrds with a little more focus.

I know that the years I lived in Buffalo in a sketchy area, I was only almost mugged twice, strong-arm style no weapons. I got out okay, kept my teeth and wallet.

Where I live now I carry cause I can, prolly never will need it (here)...

If you walk around expecting to get in a running pistol battle as a civilian, as a non-l.e. officer I think you're putting alot of time into something that is most likely an non-event. How about worry about doing more cardio, eating less fat, quitting smoking, cutting back on drinking...? More likely to shorten your life than a bad guy with a glock and 10 magazines who decides to start shooting at you at 30 yards...

Some of these posts are downright nasty. I like a good argument, but I never act the expert in an area I am not... I don't know everything, I haven't been everywhere and done everything, and I can say I know what works for me and why and I'll share it, but aside from someone telling someone to do something that is outright stupid I try not to judge too much...

 

[huntsman]

but my Dad always seems to wear button-up shirts, with collars, with square-cut tails, un-tucked, even to church,

+1 I'm and old man who wears what he wants, 5 pocket jeans ( or jean shorts) cotton shirt un-tucked, works with OWB or pocket carry.

No blousing of shirts or baggy pants with way too many pockets or gadget holsters.