Polish AK-47 Underfolder

[Armchair Bronco]

I'm thinking about buying (or trading for) a Polish AK-47 Underfolder, but I've never owned an AK so I'm looking for any tips and "rules of thumb" that might aid me in my purchasing decision.

I'm looking for a gun that I can shoot occasionally on the weekends with my 2 boys, but also something that would work well in a SHTF scenario. A Polish Underfolder seems to meet both criteria. The boys like how it reminds them of an MP-40 and a PPSH-41 with a curved magazine (think XBox-360). I like the availability of relatively inexpensive surplus ammo.

I know that there are 3 main flavors of AK's with wooden stocks (Type 1, Type 2, and Type 3) but I don't know much about the Underfolder varieties.

Seems like most of the Underfolders currently for sale are based on Polish parts. Are there other countries of origin I should look at? And what about U.S. builders / assemblers? Any really good ones and/or companies I should watch out for? I'm seeing BMP, CAI, and Allied Armament among others.

Something like this looks like it would be a lot of fun to shoot:

 

[briansmithwins]

Underfolders look really cool but suck to actually shoot.

I'd stick to either a solid stock or the new AK100 type left side folder.

BSW

 

[A_Matthew]

Underfolders look really cool but suck to actually shoot.

I'd stick to either a solid stock or the new AK100 type left side folder.

+1

If you went with a Saiga, it would be a cool experience to convert it with your boys. Have fun and learn something in the process.

 

[Armchair Bronco]

Underfolders look really cool but suck to actually shoot.

I'd stick to either a solid stock or the new AK100 type left side folder.

BSW

Are they hard to shoot in general or only in "underfolder" mode? I can imagine that shooting that thing like a pistol wouldn't work too well, but what if the metal stock is fully extended?

I think we're pretty set on an AK-47 (as opposed to an AK-100 or AK-74); I'm a history buff and want something with some history -- if not the gun itself them the platform.

 

[A_Matthew]

Yeah, I find it hard to shoot with the stock extended. Horrible cheek weld IMO. I just like a standard wood stock better.

 

[FMJMIKE]

I shot an underfolder for the first time this weekend. It was not bad at all. The AK was a Yugo M70 AB2. The recoil was negligible. I guess the weight of the M70 softened the recoil. It has a 1.5mm thick receiver. It looks really evil too..........

 

[Armchair Bronco]

Funny, now I'm looking at AK's with full-sized stocks, and the prices have just shot WAY UP. What's up with that? Polish Underfolders were in the $499 to $599 range.

What should we look for w/ a full set of furniture?

(BTW: A Hungarian gun would be fun to own because my wife is Hungarian, but they seem to be VERY pricey indeed: in the $1,300 range, which is way above my budget.)

 

[Rob G]

The stock on an underfolder isn't the most comfortable thing in the world and some people have problems getting good cheek weld but it's really more of a personal preference. I don't love them myself but if I'll wrap paracord around the arm of the stock closest to my face and that usually works just fine. I don't find that it's really any harder to shoot than a fixed stock, maybe just not as comfortable which doesn't necesarily affect accuracy. Again though it's a personal preference.

As for types, the two main types of underfolders are polish and Yugoslavian. I think Norinco made some as well but the only Chinese ones I've seen were polytechs which tend to be pricey. The main things you're going to be looking for are a chrome lined barrel, preferably foreign made, and straight sights/gas tube. Virtually anything else wrong with an AK can be easily fixed but replacing a bad barrel with a good requires a gunsmith and canted gas tubes are a big problem. Canted sights are a little common with certain distributors (CAI) but aren't the end of the world. A hammer usually solves that problem.

The big thing is to inspect the gun, if at all possible, before you buy it to check for off center or misaligned parts. Also understand that if you buy from Century Arms, their one year warranty starts on the day they ship it from their factory, not the day you but it. So it's entirely possible to buy a new one that's out of warranty. So if you buy one of their products, but it from a gun store you trust to make things right if there's a problem.

 

[Telekinesis]

Vector makes a pretty good underfolder too. I have one and it's been flawless and is even pretty accurate compered to other AKs I've shot. I would echo that if this gun is going to be just for shooting, you either go with a fixed stock or a left side folding stock like the Arsenals use. You can still keep the 7.62x39 caliber and everything, you'll just get a much better stock (and gun overall).

The hard part about shooing with the UF stock is that you have more of a chin/lower cheek weld than a traditional stock where you'd be right at your cheek bone. Adding to that the fact that the rail of the stock is a little on the sharp side and it's not the most comfortable to shoot. Also, over time the stock tends to get a little bit of vertical play in it as the locking mechanism loosens up a bit. It's not too noticeable while you're shooting though. That said, they are really nice/classic looking rifles and you can't beat it for compactness when folded (high on the list of requirements when I was looking for a rifle). UF rifles also have a better rear sling attachment point (works great for a single point sling) if that matters for you. If you can get past the ergonomics of the stock, they are great rifles.

Just a few more notes... The stock CAN be folded and unfolded with a mag in place (lost track of how many people told me that it wouldn't be possible) but it is very hard to move the safety if the stock if folded. Also, I would recommend you stick with surplus mags as I find that the Tapco mags are a bit tight in the mag well and are harder to seat because of it (YMMV of course). Just something to keep in mind.

 

[Armchair Bronco]

Well, you guys have just about convinced me. Function needs to win out over form. I'm a trap shooter, so I understand the importance of a good cheek weld and a nice, stable, high comb on a wooden stock. (My Winchester 101 has a Monte Carlo stock.)

The more I think about it, the more I realize that a folding metal stock (as cool as it looks) is probably the wrong direction for me. The boys will be disappointed, but I'm paying for the gun so the buck stops with me. (That's the fun part of controlling the purse strings.)

 

[Rob G]

The boys will be disappointed

Shooting AKs of any variety always puts a smile on the face. They'll get it over by the end of the first magazine.

 

[minutemen1776]

WAIT!!!

DO NOT succomb to all the naysayers when it comes to underfolder AKMs. The drawbacks of underfolder stocks, IMHO, have been greatly exaggerated on the Web. I recently bought a Century AKMS like the one you're considering, and I absolutely LOVE the thing. It shoots wonderfully, and the compactness when folded is amazing. I have always been an AR guy, but when I finally picked up one of these Polish underfolders I was totally blown away. It is a fabulous shooter; I've had few rifles that are so easy for me to shoot well. Get you one!

 

[Adam123]

DO NOT succomb to all the naysayers when it comes to underfolder AKMs. The drawbacks of underfolder stocks, IMHO, have been greatly exaggerated on the Web. I recently bought a Century AKMS like the one you're considering, and I absolutely LOVE the thing. It shoots wonderfully, and the compactness when folded is amazing. I have always been an AR guy, but when I finally picked up one of these Polish underfolders I was totally blown away. It is a fabulous shooter; I've had few rifles that are so easy for me to shoot well. Get you one!

I agree 100%. When I first shot my UF, I was like "What were all these pussies crying about?"

 

[Armchair Bronco]

DO NOT succomb to all the naysayers when it comes to underfolder AKMs. The drawbacks of underfolder stocks, IMHO, have been greatly exaggerated on the Web. I recently bought a Century AKMS like the one you're considering, and I absolutely LOVE the thing. It shoots wonderfully, and the compactness when folded is amazing. I have always been an AR guy, but when I finally picked up one of these Polish underfolders I was totally blown away. It is a fabulous shooter; I've had few rifles that are so easy for me to shoot well. Get you one!

I agree 100%. When I first shot my UF, I was like "What were all these pussies crying about?"

Hehe. I was explaining to my son (he'll be 13 this weekend) why the underfolders were a bad idea. He wasn't buying the explanation.

I've been looking at AK's with full-sized stocks, but the ones I like are a lot more pricey compared to the Polish underfolders. Here's a really nice Polish Donak receiver with awesome wood, but the guy wants $900. Not sure what to do.

For a really AWESOME specimen, I'd pay $800-$900 for an AK-47, but I'd rather spend under $600 and then use the rest for surplus (and non-corrosive) 7.62x39 ammo.



I also spotted an Egyptian Maadi for $860. This one looks sweet, too.



But now I'm also wondering if I should risk buying something sight unseen or get something at a gun show after handling the gun in person.

 

[wojownik]

But wait there's more ...

If you don't want to give up on the idea of a folding stock, a third variant to consider are wire side folding stocks. Atlanticfirearms.com has several, including the Polish Tantal, Hungarian AMD, and the Czech vz.58. Or the Arsenal with a Russian/Bulgarian style metal sidefolder:

YMMV, but I prefer the wire side folder to the underfolder - I have one on a Romy G build kit. My Romanians are pictured below.



But if I get some cash again, I'll go for the Arsenal metal side folder someday. A compromise might be the Tantal

 

[Adam123]

Take a look at the M10-762. I love mine and plan on buying another.

 

[Moose458]

The CZ vz-58 is a superior rifle to the AK in every way. Even with a milled receiver it is about a pound less weight, its striker fired, and fits ergonomically better. Don't get me wrong, I have AKs and I like AKs, just not as much as my vz-58. As far as the underfolder goes, if you wrap the left side of the stock with paracord, they are as comfortable to shoot as a solid stock. One of my favorite AKs is the Yugo ab2 underfolder.

 

[JohnnyK]

I FINALLY took my Polish Underfolder to the range 2 days ago... I got it 2 years ago and got too many other guns to break this one in... the underfolding stock is no problem at all... I shot over 150 rounds and never felt and recoil worth mentioning.. it's pretty comfortable and I give it 2 thumbs up! once you start getting with 1 flavor of AK... you will get more... it's a law or something...

 

[Rob G]

For a really AWESOME specimen, I'd pay $800-$900 for an AK-47

That's basically Arsenal price range, my local store sells SGL 21s, which are very nice Russian made AKs, for around $740. Those are high quality weapons in terms of fit and finish. Not any more reliable or accurate than a standard AK, just put together nicer.

but I'd rather spend under $600

Very easy to do. Century Arms sells a number of models in various styles (fixed stock, underfolder, sidefolder, etc...) that pretty much all come in under that price range. If you'd like to step up just a little bit in price you can also get models by IO Inc. most of which will also still come in under your $600 line and again will offer a variety of styles.

I'd encourage you to check out Atlantic Firearms website as they carry a wide variety of AKs in different price ranges and styles. It looks like they're having a Christmas sale right now plus I know they give discounts to forum members. On top of which they're well known for backing up their products with great customer service.

surplus (and non-corrosive) 7.62x39 ammo.

Commie surplus ammo is almost all corrosive. It's also typically the cheapest stuff. I wouldn't worry about it. Cleaning a gun that's been shot with corrosive ammo is really easy to do and doesn't take significantly longer than normal. The only catch is that you must remember to do it after every range trip if you've shot corrosive. You don't want to take it home and set it in a closet for a few months. Having a chrome lined barrel also helps with this.

 

[AethelstanAegen]

(BTW: A Hungarian gun would be fun to own because my wife is Hungarian, but they seem to be VERY pricey indeed: in the $1,300 range, which is way above my budget.)

It's a little less traditional looking, but you can get a Hungarian AMD-65 for around $400. I bought mine from Centerfire Systems and I like it alot. People complain about the cheek weld, but I've had no problems with it (you just have to get used to it and learn where to hold, like with any new gun). It accepts any 30 rd mag with no wobble and mine has been 100% reliable so far.

It's the one on the bottom (The other one is an Interarms built Polish Tantal which is also awesome, I bought from Atlantic Firearms):

 

[zoom6zoom]

^^ Other than the AMD65's, most Hungarian parts kits came into the US in fairly limited numbers, which is why they can command the higher prices.

 

[Armchair Bronco]

So, I'm looking at the listing for this IO AK-47 from Atlantic Firearms, but it doesn't explicitly say that the barrel is chrome lined. Instead, the listing describes a 16.25" Match Grade barrel. Do you guys think this barrel is chrome lined?

I'm thinking that if most AK-47's perform on par with each other, I'm not interested in spending $900 for an Arsenal build when I can get a workable AK-47 Sporter Classic with a lifetime warranty for $599.

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct1057.aspx

 

[AethelstanAegen]

My Interarms built Tantal was chrome lined...I would suggest you just call up or email Atlantic. THhey're super helpful and could probably tell for sure.

For what it's worth, I've been VERY happy with the quality of my Interarms build and I don't think the extra $200-300 on an Arsenal would have given me anything in improved quality (I think the parkerized finish will hold up better to love taps as well then the Arsenal finish).

 

[Rob G]

I'm pretty sure all IOs come with chrome lined barrels but I think the best suggestion on that is to e-mail Atlantic Firearms and ask them. Somebody did a review on an IO polish underfolder on ak47.net not too long ago and they said that the barrel was in fact chrome lined. I know this is technically a different model but they use the same barrels so I'm betting that the barrel is chrome lined.

When you e-mail them don't forget to mention that you're a member here. Wouldn't want to miss out on a possible discount right?

 

[Armchair Bronco]

The IO AK-47 listing says it can shoot 2" groups @ 100 yards. Is this about par for the course with an AK-47 in this price range? Can I do better than 2 MOA @ around $600?

Or can I tweak the gun myself to get closer to 1 MOA?