Positive LEO Encounter

[NavyLCDR]

Let me ask you this, Cee Zee (and others). Three situations, all occur at 10:00pm:

1. Officer is sitting in a cruiser on a street corner. Sees a car stop at a stop light, and then turn left through the empty intersection against the red light. Or clocks the oncoming car at 40 in a 25. Officer stops the offender, calls in the license plate number, vehicle registered to Joe Snuffy, no warrants.

2. Convenience store night clerk working the night shift, store is empty. Single car pulls into the parking lot and a large male exits the vehicle and enters the store.

3. Cab driver cruising downtown. Out in front of a bar a large male is hailing him to stop.

Which of the three is the most dangerous situation or the most stressful?

1. Officer is well trained (hopefully). He has several self defense weapons available. He has dispatch who knows exactly where he is at. He has a whole group of other officers on shift with him. He has probably lit up the stopped vehicle and observed the behavior of the driver and any occupants that are visible. Officer at least has an idea that the person the vehicle is registered to has no warrants. Isn't this the case with 90% of all traffic stops? The subject the officer has stopped is at the tactical disadvantage because of the lights the officer should have on them and because of the constraints of the vehicle, whereas the officer has several avenues of escape. If the officer is attacked, the whole police force and possibly neighboring police forces are going to rally to hunt down the perpetrator.

2. Convenience store clerk has no idea who just walked through the door, whether they are Joe Goodguy needing a cup of coffee, or a wanted felon looking to rob them. They likely have no weapons available or self defense training. They maybe have an equally untrained and unarmed partner working with them....maybe. They have very limited avenues of escape and are at the tactical disadvantage. They have to rely on being able to call 911 for help. If the convenience store clerk is attacked, how much effort will the police force expend to catch the criminal compared to situation #1?

3. Cab driver in pretty much the same situation as the convenience store clerk.

So, again, exactly why is situation #1 so much more stressful and dangerous than #2 or #3? Why should we, as the unknown subjects or customers in the three situations treat any one differently? Why do some people feel that situation #1 requires different actions regarding their lawfully carried concealed handgun and permit than situations #2 and #3 (unless state law requires it to be different)? It seems to me like situations #2 and #3 are actually more dangerous to the worker than #1 is.

 

[Cee Zee]

It's so amazingly simple I can't believe you have to ask. The cop is given the task of confronting the bad guys of this world. You set up a scenario where you might as well have described the cop getting a cat out of a tree. That doesn't change the fact that cops not only pull people over but they look for signs of DUI and signs of drug use. If Mr. Bad Guy happens to be cooking meth in the back of his van at the time he might very well have a tantrum and start shooting the cop so he won't have to spend the next 10 years of his life locked in a cage. The store clerk only has to sell a Slurpee (or coffee) to the Joe Goodguy and the cab driver doesn't even have to stop and quite often doesn't if he doesn't like your looks. Yes they sometimes get robbed. That's more the fault of the management of the store for not putting them out of harm's way the way some stores do. Cops have to go where the bad guys are including their homes where the bad guy knows where all the hiding places are and where all his guns are and where all his dogs are etc. etc. etc..

You're never going to convince me that being a cop isn't more stressful than being a store clerk. I've seen armed robberies. You give them what they want and let the LEO's take over from there. Trust me I know how much it ticks you off to have a gun pointed at you when you don't have one but if you keep your head the chances of you getting killed are actually quite low. You're more likely to get killed on a farm than in a 7/11 anyway. A LOT more likely.

The clerk isn't as likely to take notice that you are carrying a gun if you're just there for coffee. He isn't generally trained for that. They aren't thinned out by the ability or inability to do such things in store clerk school.

It isn't the lawfully carried handgun that worries cops. That's why we tell them it is legal. It's the illegally carried gun that worries them.

You don't have to tell me that other jobs are more dangerous than LEO jobs. I've done at least half of the top 10 most dangerous jobs in the US
. I've been a logger, a roofer, a truck driver, a structural steel worker, and a farmer. I get it that those jobs are dangerous. But they aren't dangerous because someone has it in for you. Being a cop is that. And if I can relieve their stress by abiding by the law then I will. And I think it's a common courtesy to do just that and something people really shouldn't have a problem doing. Those cops are putting it on the line for you even if their job isn't the most dangerous. To be honest I've had jobs I thought were more dangerous than the ones listed in the link I provided. Construction in particular can be extremely dangerous. I've worked underneath a 100 ton press patching the foundation it sat on while it was up on jacks. I worked in trenches dug out along the side of a bank building being remodeled. They were 12 feet deep and could have buried me at any second. I've sat ridge poles on houses the old fashion way by holding up an end of a 300 lb. beam with my back to a a 100 foot drop with someone on the other end of the beam that could have pushed me over the edge if he sneezed. But some of my jobs on that list have been very dangerous too. I've patched the paint on aircraft hangar roofs 150 foot in the air on a slick surface that rolled over like the side of a tube and got steeper by the inch. Life is dangerous for a lot of people. I know that. I would help those people too if I could. I can help a LEO. It's not special treatment. It's just human treatment. If I can help I will and since I can I do. Again people can develop an attitude towards LEO's based on the action of a minority of cops. I think we should accept that most aren't bad and help them when we can. Maybe it's those times when I was hitchhiking home at midnight as a high school kid basically living wild on the street when a LEO picked me up and gave me a ride home (along with a lecture) going miles out of his jurisdiction to do it. LEO's have been pretty good to me at times when they really didn't need to.

I don't think we can go any further in this discussion. I've stated my view. You don't accept it. Oh well.

 

[basicblur]

You say machines don't stop no matter what? Machines don't go out of their way to make you feel as bad possible like "some" people do.

Really...some of the accidents I've seen sure made it seem that way!

As others have stated, a cop's job is way down the list AFA how dangerous it is.
The other nine or so more dangerous jobs just don't have the PR machine LEOs do, and most of the folks in those professions don't whine - they know (or quickly learn) the risks of their job, accept those risks as part of the job, shut up, and just get on with their jobs.

For that, I thank them!

Of course, even though I appreciate the job they do, I'm sure if I put my garbage man on the pedestal some in here do for certain professions...
Well, no doubt he'd just think I was weird.

 

[Officers'Wife]

There is a distinct difference between the threat of dieing by industrial accident versus by the hands of a violent career criminal.

There is? About a year ago, we had a patient that had gotten between a cow and her calf. The damage was extensive and his recovery long. He knew what he had done wrong and admitted it was a moment of carelessness that got him hurt.

Last fall we had a patient that managed to get his coat sleeve caught in a PTO shaft. The bones in his arm were pretty well pulverized and blood loss was massive. He knew what he had done wrong and admitted he had been foolish to wear loose clothing around moving equipment.

Last summer we had a patient that attempted to stop a moving car by standing in front of it with a handgun. He had a minor bruise, some road rash and an active imagination of the extent of his injuries. He admitted that the driver of the car had no respect for the law.

There is a diff, but it's not in the threat...

 

[itsa pain]

Really...some of the accidents I've seen sure made it seem that way!

As others have stated, a cop's job is way down the list AFA how dangerous it is.
The other nine or so more dangerous jobs just don't have the PR machine LEOs do, and most of the folks in those professions don't whine - they know (or quickly learn) the risks of their job, accept those risks as part of the job, shut up, and just get on with their jobs.

For that, I thank them!

Of course, even though I appreciate the job they do, I'm sure if I put my garbage man on the pedestal some in here do for certain professions...
Well, no doubt he'd just think I was weird.

amen. I had comp for 30 years and every year I would get the list of dangerous jobs /police and even firemen were way down on the list. guys like cee zee like to worship police and that is their choice also cz is a good story teller

 

[Cee Zee]

Really...some of the accidents I've seen sure made it seem that way!

As others have stated, a cop's job is way down the list AFA how dangerous it is.

All I can say is you haven't seen anyone that was truly tortured. I didn't see it personally but a good friend of mine's sister was tortured for days before being allowed to die. I'm talking being set on fire, having fingernails pulled out and other things I won't mention on this family site. If you seriously think that people can't be unimaginably cruel then I'm glad for you because you're better off not knowing what people can be like. That girl isn't even the only one I know that was set on fire deliberately. One was because a girl, who's father won the lottery, found out her boyfriend was cheating on her and was just using her to get at the money. She dumped him. He killed her in a horrific manner saying if he couldn't have the money she couldn't either. I know her father and her son.

Don't tell me humans can't hurt you in a fashion that is beyond belief. I know they can.

As for LEO's not having a dangerous job I don't believe that either. Mostly what gets them hurt are car accidents.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2011/pf/jobs/1108/gallery.dangerous_jobs/11.html

This is my last post in this thread.