Post office question
- Thread starter FMarlon
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Post offices are federal facilities and therefore it is not legal to carry in the post office.
Jim Washburn
Member
It is legal to carry in the post office.
j.
j.
another okie
Member
It's unclear, but what is clear is that if discovered you will be arrested and probably face federal charges, so I vote for not doing it.
As far as Federal law goes, it' is illegal to carry in a Federal Court not any Federal building. Now your particular State law may prohibit weapons in all State and Federal buildings, but you'll have to check on that.
A simple test of whether one may legally carry in a post office
could involve answering four questions:
1. Is it illegal for me to carry a handgun on the street outside
the post office?
2. Is there a state or local law prohibiting carry in a post
office?
3. Am I violating the terms of my CCW permit by carrying
inside a post office?
4. Am I going to commit a crime or engage in some unlawful
activity once inside the facility?
I'm not a lawyer; consult your local listings.
A simple test of whether one may legally carry in a post office
could involve answering four questions:
1. Is it illegal for me to carry a handgun on the street outside
the post office?
2. Is there a state or local law prohibiting carry in a post
office?
3. Am I violating the terms of my CCW permit by carrying
inside a post office?
4. Am I going to commit a crime or engage in some unlawful
activity once inside the facility?
I'm not a lawyer; consult your local listings.
RON in PA
Member
My local post office has sign with a picture of a pistol in a circle with a diagonal line over the pistol. I take this to mean that they don't want handguns in the place. Before I saw this I entered carrying, but since the gun was properly concealed no one noticed. Since then I don't carry into the P.O..
I get so much shooting related stuff sent to my PO box (most of which I have to pick up from the counter) that they all know I am a shooter. I suspect they have an idea I carry too. No one has ever said anything negative to me.
Now for the tricky part--my post office is a postal store and therefore is not on federal property and is in an suite in a strip mall that is leased by the USPS. Is it still illegal for me to carry there? You guys go ahead and debate that one.
I received a rifle last year there and the lady behind the counter told me to enjoy my fishing rod (wink).
Greg
Now for the tricky part--my post office is a postal store and therefore is not on federal property and is in an suite in a strip mall that is leased by the USPS. Is it still illegal for me to carry there? You guys go ahead and debate that one.
I received a rifle last year there and the lady behind the counter told me to enjoy my fishing rod (wink).
Greg
Muzzleflash
member
- Joined
- Jul 9, 2004
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- 318
Ok, thanks.
Devonai
Member
Do a Google search on "18 USC 930" or "18 U.S.C. 930" and read the whole law. Then ask yourself if you can carry a weapon into a US Post Office.
(Thanks to atk for this one)
(Thanks to atk for this one)
I do not believe it is lawful to carry firearms in a Post Office (Title 18 US Code Section 930 applies), although I readily admit there are well-reasoned arguments that concealed carry in Post Offices may be “technically†legal. Please note, however, that most Post Office have conspicuous displayed posters to indicate firearms are illegal. I have little doubt that the Postal Inspectors (by whatever name they are now called) will arrest anyone who possesses a firearm in a Postal facility; regardless of the final outcome in extended court proceedings, there will certainly be a substantial “hassle factorâ€.
kwelz
Member
I just talked to my friend who is a Prosecutor. It is against Federal law to carry into a Post Office. And yes they do prosecute it vigorously. He doesn't' agree with it but that is the way it is.
18 USC Sec. 930
01/26/98
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS
HEADING
Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities
STATUTE
(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills or attempts to kill any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, and 1113.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to -
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.
(e)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(e)(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).
(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.
(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term ''Federal facility'' means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.
(2) The term ''dangerous weapon'' means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 2 1/2 inches in length.
(3) The term ''Federal court facility'' means the courtroom, judges' chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States.
(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.
01/26/98
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 44 - FIREARMS
HEADING
Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities
STATUTE
(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
(b) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.
(c) A person who kills or attempts to kill any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, and 1113.
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to -
(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.
(e)(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(e)(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph (1) or (2) of subsection (d).
(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.
(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term ''Federal facility'' means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.
(2) The term ''dangerous weapon'' means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 2 1/2 inches in length.
(3) The term ''Federal court facility'' means the courtroom, judges' chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States.
(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.
There seems to be some discrepency:
http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rtc-usps.html
Read it all and consult your local lawyer for interpretation. Azziza's friend thinks it's against the law.
http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rtc-usps.html
Read it all and consult your local lawyer for interpretation. Azziza's friend thinks it's against the law.
porciniman
Member
Muzzleflash: Now that's funny!
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Post offices are federal facilities and therefore it is not legal to carry in the post office.
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It is legal to carry in the post office.
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Ok, thanks.
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Post offices are federal facilities and therefore it is not legal to carry in the post office.
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It is legal to carry in the post office.
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Ok, thanks.
Is it interesting how section "d" is not shown?
http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rtc-1508.html
Title 18, United States Code, Sec. 930. - Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities
Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
Subsection (a) shall not apply to -
the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.
In order to fall within the exception to the law, two conditions have to be met. First, one has to be engaged in the "lawful carrying of firearms." This means you cannot be a "prohibited person" such as a convicted felon, a fugitive from justice, or fall within any of the other categories that would prohibit one from lawfully purchasing or owning a firearm under federal law.
It also means that it must be legal for you to carry the firearm under any applicable federal, state, and local laws. If, for example, it is illegal under state law to carry a firearm in a post office, the exception in section (d) (3) of 18 U.S.C. § 930 offers you no protection. The same is true about any local regulations or restrictions on the terms of your carry permit. In other words, if state or local law, or the terms of your carry permit, prohibit carry in a post office, then such carry is not "lawful," and the exception to the ban on carrying in federal facilities does not apply to you.
Again, seek local legal advice.
http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rtc-1508.html
Title 18, United States Code, Sec. 930. - Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities
Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.
Subsection (a) shall not apply to -
the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.
In order to fall within the exception to the law, two conditions have to be met. First, one has to be engaged in the "lawful carrying of firearms." This means you cannot be a "prohibited person" such as a convicted felon, a fugitive from justice, or fall within any of the other categories that would prohibit one from lawfully purchasing or owning a firearm under federal law.
It also means that it must be legal for you to carry the firearm under any applicable federal, state, and local laws. If, for example, it is illegal under state law to carry a firearm in a post office, the exception in section (d) (3) of 18 U.S.C. § 930 offers you no protection. The same is true about any local regulations or restrictions on the terms of your carry permit. In other words, if state or local law, or the terms of your carry permit, prohibit carry in a post office, then such carry is not "lawful," and the exception to the ban on carrying in federal facilities does not apply to you.
Again, seek local legal advice.
azizza,
Could you do us a favor and show the link above (http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rtc-usps.html) to your prosecutor friend and see what he has to say about the argument. The man who wrote the interpretation in the link is also an attorney.
brad cook
Could you do us a favor and show the link above (http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rtc-usps.html) to your prosecutor friend and see what he has to say about the argument. The man who wrote the interpretation in the link is also an attorney.
brad cook
you'd think w/ the term "going postal" being so "mainstream" that they would WANT LAWFULLY LICENSED CONCEAL CARRY PERSONS on site. Instead they ban everyone and let the people who are unlawfully shooting people have the upper hand....
just more mindless crap.... lovely
edit - for the record - over 1/2 my family works for the postal service in one way or another - and i've got an aunt who went through one of those "postal" sessions up in milwaukee - he went in w/ a revolver and reloaded .... twice.... (bleh)
J/Tharg!
just more mindless crap.... lovely
edit - for the record - over 1/2 my family works for the postal service in one way or another - and i've got an aunt who went through one of those "postal" sessions up in milwaukee - he went in w/ a revolver and reloaded .... twice.... (bleh)
J/Tharg!
Devonai
Member
Subsection D was the part I wanted people to notice. It seems pretty straightforward to me.
Carlos
Member
WRONG. All the Post Offices around here have the no gun signs. Federal facilities are probably using the same rules throughout the U.S. So, not legal.
Incidently, I go to the Post Office all the time, while packing. Don't ask, don't tell.
well while I was at the po today (didnt carry due to being unsure), there was a police officer in front of me in line and he was having a discussion with the local supervisor about .... GUNS! and the supervisor siad that as long as the person is a law abiding citizen and not there to hurt people and cause general mayhem, they dont really care. except I believe she was meaning an off duty officer...... seems to be more eliteism B.S.
On the other hand, I was shipping some stainless re enactor armor and a large (16 inch knife). I stood behind the officer just praying that he dosent turn and open fire on me cuz o the knife.
Well, since I am typing this he didnt, but he did see what I was shipping when at the counter and was in awe of the bowie asked me if I was a knifemaker
Anyhoo, this thread has gotten out of hand IMHO
feel free to lock it mods
On the other hand, I was shipping some stainless re enactor armor and a large (16 inch knife). I stood behind the officer just praying that he dosent turn and open fire on me cuz o the knife.
Well, since I am typing this he didnt, but he did see what I was shipping when at the counter and was in awe of the bowie
asked me if I was a knifemaker Anyhoo, this thread has gotten out of hand IMHO
feel free to lock it mods
El Rojo
Member
I think the signs with the "no gun" circle on them are a pretty good indicator. That and the whole Federal Property laws. Of course, if you are properly carrying concealed, no one would probably notice while you are in the post office for a few minutes. Of course I would never do that myself. I would always leave my lawfully concealed handgun at home and never even drive it onto federal property. Never.
How about someone go ask their local post master?
How about someone go ask their local post master?
A very respectful warning to all: MANY Post Offices in Northern Virginia have magnetic sensors at their entrances. I am not sure they are operative, since I once walked into a PO in Fairfax County, forgetting I had my GP-100 concealed, and the alarm did not activate.
I will tell you this, however, I was VERY glad to depart the premises without being arrested.
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