PPQ back to S&W

[wow6599]

I've not heard much negative about the Walther PPQ in 9mm. I've ran across sporadic reports of issues with the .40 S&W, but still not much.

After work a couple of weeks ago a few of us went to the range to shoot darts (targets that look like dart boards).......the loser pays for beer afterwards. My PPQ, which only had about 75 rounds through it, gave me about 6-8 FTFeed in a few different factory mags - I took 5 to be exact.

The cartridge would feed about 1/2 the way in and stop. This happened with Federal, WWB and my loads. All 115 gr. I would drop the mag, lock the slide back & use my car key to clear it.
It didn't matter if it was the 3rd rd or 14th rd.


The idea of S&W "fixing" a German made Walther bothers me, but I really like the gun and want it to work - and full size poly 9s shouldn't need a break-in period, IMHO.

Any ideas?

 

[mike1285]

Did you thoroughly clean the PPQ before you fired it for the first time?
Another exercise you might try is to hand rack the slide time-after-time, maybe a couple of hundred.

 

[wow6599]

Did you thoroughly clean the PPQ before you fired it for the first time?

Yep, and oiled with a light mix of FP-10 and Militech-1.

 

[HKGuns]

and full size poly 9s shouldn't need a break-in period, IMHO.

No they shouldn't and mine hasn't. Mine has run like a top in admittedly light use so far.

 

[sigarms228]

Were you using Federal Champion per chance? The reason I ask is that it is about the lowest power 9MM load one can buy. You also said "your loads" which I take as reloads?

Next time I would try some 124 GR loads since the pistol is relatively new. If you can find Winchester NATO 124 GR so much the better. American Eagle and Speer Lawman 115 gr loads are also pretty stout.

Have you tried the other magazine? If not try so.

I would also recommend lubing the slide rail where it rides on the steel frame inserts fully on both sides of the slide. I simply use a Qtip soakes with lube and run it up/down each side of the slide rail or put a drop of oil into each slide rail and let it run down the full length of the slide.

The idea of S&W "fixing" a German made Walther bothers me

That should not bother you as no reason S&W can not properly fix a pistol and it does not really matter where it is made.

Sorry to hear about your issues and let us know how it goes.

 

[Fremmer]

Wild guess, but here it goes. Did you install the recoil spring backwards the last time you reassembled? Or is it kinked?

 

[wow6599]

Thanks for all the ideas everyone.

Were you using Federal Champion per chance? The reason I ask is that it is about the lowest power 9MM load one can buy. You also said "your loads" which I take as reloads?

Yes & yes. Federal stuff from WM and my reloads - which are on the hot side. And I also used some WWB.

That should not bother you as no reason S&W can not properly fix a pistol and it does not really matter where it is made

Agreed, but I like the idea that the barrel on a PPQ comes from the same bar of steel and is "fitted" for the slide - not just picked from a box with hundreds in it. The slide, frame and barrel all share the same SN#.

Wild guess, but here it goes. Did you install the recoil spring backwards the last time you reassembled?

Not a chance. It's blue on one end....not sure it would even go back together backwards. Also, it's a captive guide rod/spring.....don't think it would be kinked, but I guess anything is possible.

 

[sigarms228]

Agreed, but I like the idea that the barrel on a PPQ comes from the same bar of steel and is "fitted" for the slide - not just picked from a box with hundreds in it. The slide, frame and barrel all share the same SN#.

I have never heard of anyone getting a PPQ back from SW for warranty repair with the serial numbers on the barrel/slide/frame not matching if that is your concern. I seriously doubt they would even do that and probably would replace the pistol first if the problem was that major which I really doubt it is.

And I also used some WWB

.
While I have not had a problem with WWB myself I have heard of others that have and Bruce Gray of Grayguns will not warranty the performance of his gunsmith work when WWB ammo is used. My WWB stock is at least 3 years old. I would not hesitate myself to buy WWB but if I did have a problem with it I would suspect the ammo more than the pistol these days. See the link below from one user of WWB to see what he found - makes one wonder.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=498821&highlight=wwb


I have heard of HK P30L having a problem with 115 gr ammo during the first couple hundred rounds and HK recommended users try a quality 124 gr ammo for the first few hundred rounds. I typically use Winchester Ranger NATO 124 gr load when first shooting any pistol these days. You can get it at a very reasonable price at the link below.

http://www.sgammo.com/product/winch...inchester-ranger-124-grain-fmj-p-ra9124n-ammo

 

[wow6599]

I have heard of HK P30L having a problem with 115 gr ammo during the first couple hundred rounds and HK recommended users try a quality 124 gr ammo for the first few hundred rounds

Yeah, I read something about that when I was searching for 9mm PPQ feeding problems. I'll see what S&W says, but I wonder why Walther, or H&K for that matter, would have problems with 115 gr. stuff. I always thought the opposite end of the spectrum caused the most feeding problems - i.e. 147 gr. stuff.

 

[sigarms228]

Yeah, I read something about that when I was searching for 9mm PPQ feeding problems. I'll see what S&W says, but I wonder why Walther, or H&K for that matter, would have problems with 115 gr. stuff. I always thought the opposite end of the spectrum caused the most feeding problems - i.e. 147 gr. stuff.

It is because of the so called power factor of many 115 gr loads being not enough from what I have read.

I have read that many have used a stouter 9MM factory load for the first couple hundred rounds and then after that Federal Champion 115 gr works fine which other than being a little on the soft side is otherwise a pretty high quality ammo.

I found this online a while back:

Brand Weight Velocity Power Factor
Fiocchi 124 1180 146.32
Fiocchi 147 1000 147.00
Fiocchi 158 940 148.52
Am Eagle 147 1000 147.00
Win RA9124N NATO 124 1185 146.94
RWS Sport FMJ 124 1181 146.44
S&B 124 1181 146.44
Rem. Express 147 990 145.53
Magtech 147 990 145.53
UMC 147 990 145.53
Lawman 147 985 144.80
Prvi Partizan 147 984 144.65
S&B 115 1250 143.75
Fiocchi 115 1250 143.75
Am Eagle 124 1150 142.60

Glock Minimum* 124 1148 142.35

Win USA 124 1140 141.36
Blazer 147 950 139.65
Lawman 115 1200 138.00
PMC Bronze 124 1110 137.64
Magtech 124 1109 137.52
Win USA 115 1190 136.85
Rem. Express 124 1100 136.40
UMC 124 1100 136.40
Am Eagle 115 1180 135.70

Glock Minimum* 115 1180 135.70

Blazer 124 1090 135.16
Blazer Brass 124 1090 135.16
Lawman 124 1090 135.16
Cor-Bon match 147 900 132.30
My Reloads 147 900 132.30
PMC Bronze 115 1150 132.25
Prvi Partizan 115 1148 132.02
Blazer 115 1145 131.68
Blazer Brass 115 1145 131.68
Rem. Express 115 1135 130.53
Magtech 115 1135 130.53
UMC 115 1135 130.53
Federal Champ 115 1125 129.38

*2000 Glock Armorer's manual
__________________
Lifetime GSSF Member
Certified Glock Armorer 1997, 2000, 2003, 2006, 2009

 

[sigarms228]

Yeah, I read something about that when I was searching for 9mm PPQ feeding problems. I'll see what S&W says, but I wonder why Walther, or H&K for that matter, would have problems with 115 gr. stuff. I always thought the opposite end of the spectrum caused the most feeding problems - i.e. 147 gr. stuff.

It is because of the so called power factor of many 115 gr loads being not enough from what I have read.

I have read that many have used a stouter 9MM factory load for the first couple hundred rounds and then after that Federal Champion 115 gr works fine which other than being a little on the soft side is otherwise a pretty high quality ammo.

I found this online a while back:

Brand Weight Velocity Power Factor
Fiocchi 124 1180 146.32
Fiocchi 147 1000 147.00
Fiocchi 158 940 148.52
Am Eagle 147 1000 147.00
Win RA9124N NATO 124 1185 146.94
RWS Sport FMJ 124 1181 146.44
S&B 124 1181 146.44
Rem. Express 147 990 145.53
Magtech 147 990 145.53
UMC 147 990 145.53
Lawman 147 985 144.80
Prvi Partizan 147 984 144.65
S&B 115 1250 143.75
Fiocchi 115 1250 143.75
Am Eagle 124 1150 142.60

Glock Minimum* 124 1148 142.35

Win USA 124 1140 141.36
Blazer 147 950 139.65
Lawman 115 1200 138.00
PMC Bronze 124 1110 137.64
Magtech 124 1109 137.52
Win USA 115 1190 136.85
Rem. Express 124 1100 136.40
UMC 124 1100 136.40
Am Eagle 115 1180 135.70

Glock Minimum* 115 1180 135.70

Blazer 124 1090 135.16
Blazer Brass 124 1090 135.16
Lawman 124 1090 135.16
Cor-Bon match 147 900 132.30
My Reloads 147 900 132.30
PMC Bronze 115 1150 132.25
Prvi Partizan 115 1148 132.02
Blazer 115 1145 131.68
Blazer Brass 115 1145 131.68
Rem. Express 115 1135 130.53
Magtech 115 1135 130.53
UMC 115 1135 130.53
Federal Champ 115 1125 129.38

*2000 Glock Armorer's manual
__________________
Lifetime GSSF Member
Certified Glock Armorer 1997, 2000, 2003, 2006, 2009

 

[Fishbed77]

Send it back to S&W.

A true Walther (i.e. an Ulm gun and not a potmetal Umarex gun like the P22) should run straight out of the box with just a cleaning. No break in should be needed.

My P99AS (same gun as PPQ with different trigger group) has been flawless from the first shot. I would expect a PPQ to do the same.

 

[balance 740]

My PPQ, which only had about 75 rounds through it, gave me about 6-8 FTFeed in a few different factory mags - I took 5 to be exact.

Did the first 75 rounds give you any trouble? What ammo were you using then? Were the empty casings being thrown far away, or were they just flopping out of the ejection port?

Since you were using 115gr target ammo, I would suggest trying some different ammo first before sending it in. I agree with sigarms228, and I would suggest 124gr or 147gr ammo for the first few hundred rounds through the pistol.

The pistol was designed to function with 124gr NATO ammunition, and considering that every spring in the pistol is brand new, it may take a few hundred rounds before it functions flawlessly with the lighter target ammo sold here. Normally people don't seem to have problems with the lighter ammo at all, but the ones that do normally report that the issues went away after a few hundred rounds.

If you are still having issues after a few hundred rounds, or you get the same issues with defensive ammo or heavier target ammo, that is when I would start suspecting the pistol.

 

[k_dawg]

Are the factory mags actually early P99 mags?

I have read that the early P99 mags can cause malfunctions. I have a P99, and the two original ones have a higher front-wall than my newer ones.

I only use 124gr ones, and love the Winchester Ranger 9mm Nato loads.

 

[wow6599]

All where actual PPQ marked magazines from Midway.

I do appreciate all the advice, but if a firearm of this type can't shoot 115 gr. cheap stuff - like a M&P or Glock, I have no use for it.

 

[RBid]

I have 3,200 flawless rounds through my PPQ 9mm, including WWB, Federal, PMC Brass, Blazer Aluminum, crappy factory reloads, etc.

I have never heard of them having trouble with any ammo, at all. I suppose it's possible that I have just missed it, but nearly every report I hear is "runs flawlessly".

 

[balance 740]

I do appreciate all the advice, but if a firearm of this type can't shoot 115 gr. cheap stuff - like a M&P or Glock, I have no use for it.

The vast majority of them can shoot anything from the first shot. The rest of them, after a few hundred rounds.

There can be a few FTF or FTE malfunctions in the first few hundred rounds when using light target ammo.

http://lundestudio.com/WaltherP99FAQ/X/1.html

If after a few hundred rounds the pistol is still not functioning with them, then something is wrong with this individual pistol, not the design. These pistols don't have a reputation for being picky. Did you have any issues with the first 75 rounds?

My P99 has gone through more than 7k rounds of the cheapest ammo I could find without issue. My PPQ has gone through around 2k rounds of the cheapest ammo I could find without issue.