practical .380 use?

[christcorp]

Simplest answer: The 380 is perfectly adequate for self defense needs. Don't let anyone tell you differently.

Having said that: The 380 is rare and expensive when it comes to buying ammunition. It is not worth the expensive price tag. Not when you can get 9mm or 9mm makarov ammo for 1/2 the price and both rounds can perform equal to or better than the 380. (Depending on the ammo you buy). I.e. you can buy weaker versions of the 9mm/9mm mak that is like shooting a 380. Or, you can buy much hotter if you like it.

Nothing wrong with a 380. It's just not the financially smart choice of calibers. And don't let anyone tell you about reloading, unless it's something you WANT to get into. I've reloaded for years, but except for hunting rounds, I don't reload anymore. I don't care to. I have other things I'd rather do. Anyway, that's the only reason I wouldn't buy a 380. Not unless it was basically free or I already reloaded for it. It's too expensive to shoot.

 

[thunder173]

About the the bottom line round I'd want to carry for SD,..tho I have carried .32 and .22 as well,..having said that, I do carry a Keltec P3AT every day,..and often a Firestorm version of the Bersa in .380 when concealment isn't a big issue, even tho it conceals well. I have the FS in .22 LR for plinking and such as well. Both are very good shooters in my opinion. I have had Walthers in both .32 ACP and .380 over the years. I personally like the fit and feel of the Bersa/Firestorms, although the finishes are a bit rougher than the Walther's,..their prices are right. They work. I'll keep mine. The older I get, the less I appreciate heavier recoil. Two in the chest, ...one in the head,...I don't think a .380 should be disccounted.

 

[btg3]

.380 Thunder
.38spl 642
9mm M&Pc

I have all 3 with holsters and ammo. The Bersa was a gift -- glad I didn't spend my money on it, but I understand it's appeal as it's not as pricey. Of course, depending on how often you practice, the ammo can eat up the cost difference.

 

[redraider1109]

searcher and gofastman, the Hornady critical defense is what I was thinking of. I know that a lot of people look at .380 like a pop gun but 11 inches of penetration is nothing to sneer at.... the CorBon DPX is impressive also, .645 of expansion is nuts. The main reason for this pistol is something for me to teach the wife on and hand off to her soon. Thanks for all the great info and suggestions guys.

and btw, weevil I totally agree. I don't care if you are packing a desert eagle, if you can't hit the broad side of a barn and I can put 3 or 4 .380s in your face and neck area, I win =)

 

[Wishoot]

The Cabela's in Richfield is swimming in .380 ammo now. I've never seen so much .380 in my life.

 

[redraider1109]

thunder, you might want to take a look at the below link, they use your exact pistol and got some pretty impressive results for .380. And thanks for the heads up, it DOES seem like more and more people are discussing handloading- i am in your bag, I might get into things with a rifle, for pistols I am okay with getting a box or such as needed.

http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammunition/HG_acriticalchoice_200903/index.html

 

[TEXMEX]

I used to carry .380's, but not after penetration tests I did shooting into 2x4's. Neither hardball or JHP's would go deeper than one. But maybe they were extra hard or something? On the other hand, a 9mm will penetrate +/- 4.

But............that was olde days .380 ammo.

Since some 9mm's are just as small and light as .380's now days, why carry a much weaker 380??? And .380 ammo costs more than 9mm too. So why a .380?

 

[Buck Snort]

gofastman wrote: "I think flat nose FMJ or hardcast bullets are better suited to the .380, but thats just my opinion."

That'd be my choice to try and gain some penetration and yet not have to use a RN bullet.

 

[psyopspec]

1) Get a gun that you are willing to carry as much as possible.

2) Get a gun in the largest caliber you can shoot consistently/accurately.

Yes, .380 has killed. So has .22LR, but that doesn't make it an ideal SD round. You can do much better, and you can do much worse, but I recommend sticking by the two points above.

 

[christcorp]

I used to carry .380's, but not after penetration tests I did shooting into 2x4's. Neither hardball or JHP's would go deeper than one. But maybe they were extra hard or something? On the other hand, a 9mm will penetrate +/- 4.

But............that was olde days .380 ammo.

Since some 9mm's are just as small and light as .380's now days, why carry a much weaker 380??? And .380 ammo costs more than 9mm too. So why a .380?

Next time I'm attacked by a 2x4, I'll definitely keep that in mind.

 

[Losov]

Since some 9mm's are just as small and light as .380's now days, why carry a much weaker 380??? And .380 ammo costs more than 9mm too. So why a .380?

It's a matter of how much one is willing to compromise and at what point. Given the likelihood of my ever having to draw a weapon within the context of my daily activities, I am unwilling to make the significant adjustment to my attire to carry even the smallest 9mm, which I believe is presently the Kel-Tec PF9.

I want a gun that absolutely disappears on my person and does not interfere with movement and gait. For me, that is the Ruger LCP in a pocket holster. The alternative, again for me, is not to carry.

I know many do not agree with this, but the question was asked. That's my answer.

 

[christcorp]

Interesting data:
http://www.smallestguns.com/

 

[Nushif]

There was a thread about the ballistics behind a .380 a while ago.

After a couple of laughs the impression was that it penetrates people, steaks, gelatin and ham and swiss sandwiches.

Oh yeah, I think it's been established that getting shot with a couple of .380s until one doesn't pose a threat anymore is just as unpleasant as getting shot with a couple of HAMMER-OF-THOR .45s until one doesn't pose a threat anymore.

 

[Weevil]

searcher and gofastman, the Hornady critical defense is what I was thinking of. I know that a lot of people look at .380 like a pop gun but 11 inches of penetration is nothing to sneer at.... the CorBon DPX is impressive also, .645 of expansion is nuts. The main reason for this pistol is something for me to teach the wife on and hand off to her soon. Thanks for all the great info and suggestions guys.

and btw, weevil I totally agree. I don't care if you are packing a desert eagle, if you can't hit the broad side of a barn and I can put 3 or 4 .380s in your face and neck area, I win =)

Yes it is interesting how some people "sneer" at the .380.

They act as if the badguy is gonna catch the bullets from a .380 with his teeth and spit them back at you, where as a 9mm is gonna pick 'em off the ground and hurl them through the air and of course a hit from a .45 will cause them to burst like a blood filled water-balloon.

Come on people we're talking about handgun rounds and even the best of them aren't especially effective. I forget the exact figures off the top of my head but it's something like 70 to 80% of all victims of a handgun shootings survive.

However that being said even a .22 can kill you IF it hits a vital area.

The trick isn't having the biggest, baddest caliber, it's being able to put those shots on target with the gun you're using.

The most effective caliber you can have is the one you can shoot most accurately with the gun you're actually gonna carry.

 

[doc2rn]

Be sure to check the crowning on the muzzle, cause the one I got looked like it was made out of playdough and shot area of cornfield at 7 yds

 

[gofastman]

It's a matter of how much one is willing to compromise and at what point. Given the likelihood of my ever having to draw a weapon within the context of my daily activities, I am unwilling to make the significant adjustment to my attire to carry even the smallest 9mm, which I believe is presently the Kel-Tec PF9.

I want a gun that absolutely disappears on my person and does not interfere with movement and gait. For me, that is the Ruger LCP in a pocket holster. The alternative, again for me, is not to carry.

I know many do not agree with this, but the question was asked. That's my answer.

And its very insightful! There is a niche for the .380.

 

[btg3]

The most effective caliber you can have is the one you can shoot most accurately with the gun you're actually gonna carry.

Reminds me of David and Goliath. Anyone carry a concealed slingshot? Hard to argue with the effectiveness, given the results.

 

[TEXMEX]

You .380 guys can think whatever you want, but I guarantee you will suddenly understand what the rest of us are talking about when you come face to face with a shotgun armed felon, or 2-3 armed robbers carrying pistols!

At that exact instant you are going to be hit by a lighteningt bolt of understanding and wishing you were carrying the most powerful pistol you could shoot well!!!!!!!!!!!!

It happened to me when I unexpectedly came face to face with a big aggressive bear at 10 feet and all I had was my pocket pistol. Never realized how punny my small 9mm was until at that moment of devine understanding.

By the way, I'm not "sneering" at the .380, just facing reality. I've owned and carried several .380's, but after seeing in person their ineffectiveness on the street, I said, "Never again!"

 

[TEXMEX]

LOSOV, says: It's a matter of how much one is willing to compromise and at what point. Given the likelihood of my ever having to draw a weapon within the context of my daily activities, I am unwilling to make the significant adjustment to my attire to carry even the smallest 9mm, which I believe is presently the Kel-Tec PF9.
---------------------------------------------------------

If you ever need a gun for self-defense (and I have, multiple times) you are going to need a powerful gun. Besides that, the LCP has a lousy trigger pull and when shooting two-handed the trigger finger tends to get stopped mid-pull by hitting the thumb of your other hand = not good in an emergency! (The reason is the grip is too small, and the trigger-pull too long.)

The KAHR PM9 is the smallest, lightest, full-power (+P rated) pistol I personally recommend, has a great trigger and is very accurate. (That doesn't mean it's the smallest or lightest, just that it's the best small auto for self-defense pocket carry in MHO.) YMMV!

 

[Weevil]

Reminds me of David and Goliath. Anyone carry a concealed slingshot? Hard to argue with the effectiveness, given the results.

Actually you've hit upon a good point.

It's not the size buy how you use it.


I think a lot of it is people go out and buy a gun for CCW and they've never actually fired a gun before or maybe plinked with a friend's or a relative's gun.

In an attempt to make up for their lack of shooting skills they want a big ol' honkin caliber that'll blow 'em away just like it does in the movies.


David could kill a man with a slingshot and I'll bet money that most people would be hard pressed to keep the rock from falling out as they swing it.

Same with a gun, the gun can't do anything by itself no matter how deadly the caliber, it's the hand and more importantly the mind that wields that weapon that kills.



A big caliber won't make-up for a lack of shooting skills.


What's more that big ol' killer caliber round in a wee little pistol is going to a lot harder to shoot and try to be effective with than a smaller caliber that they might actually be able to learn to shoot well with.

 

[TEXMEX]

Wee says: A big caliber won't make-up for a lack of shooting skills.
-------------------------------------------------

True, just as it's true that a too-small caliber pistol isn't likely to stop a determined attacker as fast as a bigger caliber pistol.

And.....why are you assuming any shooter is more skilled with a smaller caliber pistol than with a bigger caliber??? Shooting ability isn't caliber related except "maybe" in the case of the inexperienced, and even then only in a very minor way.

 

[Losov]

when shooting two-handed the trigger finger tends to get stopped mid-pull by hitting the thumb of your other hand

Not if you practice and use the appropriate grip. I do.

 

[Weevil]

True, just as it's true that a too-small caliber pistol isn't likely to stop a determined attacker in time.

There's no quarantee a larger caliber will either.

But I will guarantee that if you can't shoot that big ol' caliber pistol well your misses won't do a darn bit of good stopping him either.


Only hits count regardless of caliber.

And.....why are you assuming a smaller caliber shooter is a better shooter than the same shooter would be with a bigger caliber??? Shooting ability isn't caliber related except in the case of the inexperienced, and then only in a very minor way.

Yes caliber does matter and not in a "minor" way inexperienced or not.

A larger more powerful caliber will have more recoil and muzzle-rise in a pistol that is the same size and weight.

No matter your level of skill you cannot change the laws of physics.


Now I'm not saying that no one can learn to shoot a big caliber in a small pistol effecively but it does require a much higher skill level and even so you will always have faster follow-up times with the lighter shooting caliber.

Yes larger calibers are more effective but they are also more difficult to shoot in small lightweight pistols.

If it were simply a matter of power then why not carry a lightweight alloy framed snubnose .44 magnum or even better a .454 Casull or .500 S&W???

Power is a fine thing but so is control and it's hard to keep a gun on target when it's knocking holes in your forehead after every shot.

 

[CTGunner]

A police officer sold me a Ruger LCP. His advice "Get a gun that you will have no excuse not to have on you because the gun you have on you is worth a lot more than the one you don't". Another guy (Gun store owner) carried his Keltec P3AT in a back pocket "I keep it with my keys, so I never forget it". His other advice..."no one wakes up in the morning expecting to get in a car wreck, you can't pick and choose these things". I remember those snippets of advice. With that said, if you are going to carry a Bersa you might as well just get a 9mm, unless there is a recoil issue.

 

[Warhawk83]

The only thing my LCP was practical for, was as a shotput. I won't speak to whether the cartridge is adequate, because I could never get the cartridge in the first place.