Signs of a bear being around does not constitute a problem bear...raided garbage cans indicate someone who doesn't know how to live in bear country...going off on a blood hunt is useless. Learn how to co-exist or move - I use portable airhorns to chase bears when they hang around, and I spend considerable time in the woods w/o feeling in mortal danger. Having a dog in the yard also helps to put the fear in 'em. There are many reasons to hunt bear, but yours isn't even on the list!
Preventively shooting a bear
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Treo
member
The bear is just being a bear & doing what bears do, which is eat.
This time of year bears become hyperphagic, they will eat anything. unfortunately , as geologist said, once a bear gets a food reward from you it will keep coming back until it's killed or learns better ( water baloons full of straight ammonia are wuuuuunderful training aids) in the 17 years I've lived in Colorado I've heard of one mauling and if I recall it was asked for.
Someone (who's probably never seen a grizzly bear in the wild) mentioned that we are the top of the food chain, so if we're the ones W/ the brains it really shouldn't be hard to find a non-lethal solution.
Don't leave food out
Bear proof the trash cans
Don't leave the grill out
don't leave the windows open
Don't let the two Y/O outside unsupervised ( shouldn't do that any way)
Invest in some ammonia
Bear bells are a waste unless you're walking in heavy brush or into the wind.
This time of year bears become hyperphagic, they will eat anything. unfortunately , as geologist said, once a bear gets a food reward from you it will keep coming back until it's killed or learns better ( water baloons full of straight ammonia are wuuuuunderful training aids) in the 17 years I've lived in Colorado I've heard of one mauling and if I recall it was asked for.
Someone (who's probably never seen a grizzly bear in the wild) mentioned that we are the top of the food chain, so if we're the ones W/ the brains it really shouldn't be hard to find a non-lethal solution.
Don't leave food out
Bear proof the trash cans
Don't leave the grill out
don't leave the windows open
Don't let the two Y/O outside unsupervised ( shouldn't do that any way)
Invest in some ammonia
Bear bells are a waste unless you're walking in heavy brush or into the wind.
Oh boy, where to start.
You want to raise your kids in the outdoors and nature, then do so, with the full realization that dangerous animals are out there too. I think it is better to keep a very close eye on the kid and as he grows teach him how to watch out for animals, known food sources, etc, be aware, and be preventative than life in an unrealistic fantasy outdoors with no dangerous animals...because what happens when he DOES go out into real woods?
You do you son a disservice that may cost his life later on.
Further, killing the bear you see will do no good. Another bear will replace it. So unless you plan is to hunt bears to extinction in your area, the problem will still exist.
Mowing down the blackberry bushs to prevent a close food source from drawing bears in would be a good step too.
Note, hunting bears to instill the fear of man in them is a good idea, but you will still need to train your son to be safe.
We have a saying about firearms, you cannot child-proof every gun in this world, so you better gun-proof your child. Same with bears. You cannot make every square inch of this world safe, so you better instill the skills so your child can make HIMSELF safe
Ridgerunner665
Member
Shooting AT them has worked for me...not trying to hit them, just to remind them that I can and will kill them if I have to.
Instill fear of humans is all you need to do...its bears that get used to people that are dangerous.
Bears have a place in this world, just the same as we do. When they are in our backyards some of us may be a little scared...me, I enjoy seeing them...as long as they run when they see me.
EDITED TO ADD: I have 2 sons, one is 15, the other is 1 1/2 years old...both very "outdoorsy", and plenty of bears too. What the previous poster said about Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett is the best example of how we should handle this...raise our sons and daughters to live WITH nature and her creatures, respect them and their God given right to live their life.
There is no way to "preventivley" kill anything...but you can work and live "around" them if you put forth some effort and understanding.
Hunting them, during legal seasons is your best protection. This will put the fear of humans in them...
Instill fear of humans is all you need to do...its bears that get used to people that are dangerous.
Bears have a place in this world, just the same as we do. When they are in our backyards some of us may be a little scared...me, I enjoy seeing them...as long as they run when they see me.
EDITED TO ADD: I have 2 sons, one is 15, the other is 1 1/2 years old...both very "outdoorsy", and plenty of bears too. What the previous poster said about Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett is the best example of how we should handle this...raise our sons and daughters to live WITH nature and her creatures, respect them and their God given right to live their life.
There is no way to "preventivley" kill anything...but you can work and live "around" them if you put forth some effort and understanding.
Hunting them, during legal seasons is your best protection. This will put the fear of humans in them...
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Bob R
Member
Gator
Member
You want to kill bears "preventively?" I'm speechless.
I guess Aguila Blanca said best what I'm thinking, but in a much more "High Road" manner.
I guess Aguila Blanca said best what I'm thinking, but in a much more "High Road" manner.
Treo
member
I disagree a bear doesn't have the cognitave ability to understand that a bullet can kill them ( unless they've been shot and then they associate the sound W/pain)
Ridgerunner665
Member
Bad choice of words maybe...but I have yet to see a bear that wont run from a gunshot...whether it hits him or not.
Cosmoline
Member
If you're worried about a bear attack, carry a firearm and/or spray. Trying to hunt down a particular bear you saw as some kind of preemptive measure is foolishness. If you see one bear there are likely ten more you don't see. Unless you're radio tracking one you will not be able to get a particular bear. More to the point, what is that going to do to make you safer?
Black bear can be dangerous, but so can a lot of things. So can people. You just need to learn to live with them. If you want to hunt them you need to check your local game laws as they vary greatly from state to state and within states. Nobody here can tell you whether or not you can hunt the ones around your property legally. But I would object to shooting them as varmints. You should be collecting hides at least and AFAIK most states require edible meat be taken as well.
Black bear can be dangerous, but so can a lot of things. So can people. You just need to learn to live with them. If you want to hunt them you need to check your local game laws as they vary greatly from state to state and within states. Nobody here can tell you whether or not you can hunt the ones around your property legally. But I would object to shooting them as varmints. You should be collecting hides at least and AFAIK most states require edible meat be taken as well.
leadcounsel
member
Moving into a wildlife environment and then blasting away all of nature so that your son can live in an 'outdoorsy' atmosphere is counterintuitive, hypocritical and shortsighted.
Exterminating everything that is potentially dangerous is a slippery slope. First it's bears, then snakes, then coyotes, 'coons, fox, etc.
We have places where all the 'dangerous wildlife' was killed. It's call the city.
If you want to kill all the bears, move back to the city where it's already been done.
If you truly want an 'outdoorsy' life, use your guns only in actual defense of your family. Better yet, get bear repellant spray. It's $40 and will save a bears' life.
Exterminating everything that is potentially dangerous is a slippery slope. First it's bears, then snakes, then coyotes, 'coons, fox, etc.
We have places where all the 'dangerous wildlife' was killed. It's call the city.
If you want to kill all the bears, move back to the city where it's already been done.
If you truly want an 'outdoorsy' life, use your guns only in actual defense of your family. Better yet, get bear repellant spray. It's $40 and will save a bears' life.
deaconkharma
Member
Get two large dogs. They make alot of noise and are better than bells. plus they'll defend any children giving you time to beat feet outta the way of the bear. Plus alerting you to the bear may give you a chance to take a shot.
just my .02$ (probably worth less)
just my .02$ (probably worth less)
Travis McGee
Member
Tigre,
That show about the lady who is a professional "bear chaser offer" was very eye opening. She had little or no fear of them, because she understands them so well. They hate clashy bangy noises, so she uses that "bottle rocket gun." Also, their noses are far more sensitive than even a dog's, so pepper sprays really do a number on them. Between the bottle rocket gun and pepper spray, she quickly gets them to run from humans. They just associate contact with humans with misery.
That show about the lady who is a professional "bear chaser offer" was very eye opening. She had little or no fear of them, because she understands them so well. They hate clashy bangy noises, so she uses that "bottle rocket gun." Also, their noses are far more sensitive than even a dog's, so pepper sprays really do a number on them. Between the bottle rocket gun and pepper spray, she quickly gets them to run from humans. They just associate contact with humans with misery.
highlander 5
Member
Living in Ma with our screwy gun laws I wouldn't go traipsing thru the woods with any type of firearm. We can't have pepper spray unless you have a permit. That said the pepper pie trick sounds like a good idea. Years ago my mother lived up in the sticks of NH and the complex she lived in was having problems with a sow and her cubs raiding the medium sized dumpster for food. I suggested getting the biggest can of cayenne pepper they could lay their hands on and load up their trash with it. Don't know if it worked she moved back here to Ma not long after wood. The local DFW were useless as the residents would call but it was "sorry not much we can do"
OregonJohnny
Member
This thread is very timely for me. My parents live on 3 acres in a rural area right on the edge of suburban developments 15 minutes southwest of Portland, Oregon. Recently, I have started seeing black bear scat around their back yard. It is made up of 100% blackberries. I have been cultivating a large blackberry patch in their backyard for the last few summers and I'm sure this is the reason the bear is visiting. I never would have suspected a bear would be anywhere near this neighborhood if I hadn't seen all the scat.
We have no small children in the family, nor do the surrounding neighbors. My parents leave their dog inside, and whenever I'm playing around or picking berries on their property, I'm armed. So I don't have a lot of reason for wanting the bear gone. But if I had any concerns for my family's safety, I would call the Fish & Game to come trap it, then mow down the blackberry bushes to prevent future visitation.
Bears can be successfully relocated by authorities and that sounds like the best option for you and the bear.
We have no small children in the family, nor do the surrounding neighbors. My parents leave their dog inside, and whenever I'm playing around or picking berries on their property, I'm armed. So I don't have a lot of reason for wanting the bear gone. But if I had any concerns for my family's safety, I would call the Fish & Game to come trap it, then mow down the blackberry bushes to prevent future visitation.
Bears can be successfully relocated by authorities and that sounds like the best option for you and the bear.
Cosmoline
Member
Cutting off the food source is a great idea.
SSN Vet
Member
my opinion....worth what you're paying for it.....
No, I would not consider nixing the blackie as unethical. Have his head mounted if you please. Tan the hide and make a wall hanging or rug out of it. Definately take some pictures.
Maybe, but I doubt it.
Personally, I think you've stated some pretty good reasons to bag the bear.
I would not bait the bear.
There is no such thing as zero risk hunting. But I don't see your "risks" as being significantly greater than those you incur every time you go to the range or walk in the woods during November.
4. Could I get this bear categorized as a "problem animal" which I can just shoot instead of having to pursue within the laws and ethics of hunting?
Don't accept anybodys answer to this question, other than you local game warden.
5. Will hunting this one bear during this one season (and future bears with future licenses in future seasons) do any good? Will it keep the bear presence within a couple of miles of my home "down"? Or will the niche be quickly filled with other bears, making my efforts futile?
I don't think it's a futile effort. I think you would do well to re-establish who the "top preditor" in the woods is.
The bear is competing with you for resources. You want the berries. Blackie wants the berries. You want a safe place to raise your cub. Blackie wants the same. Yet Blackie has no moral dilemma about throwing his/her wait around.
No, I would not consider nixing the blackie as unethical. Have his head mounted if you please. Tan the hide and make a wall hanging or rug out of it. Definately take some pictures.
Maybe, but I doubt it.
Personally, I think you've stated some pretty good reasons to bag the bear.
I would not bait the bear.
There is no such thing as zero risk hunting. But I don't see your "risks" as being significantly greater than those you incur every time you go to the range or walk in the woods during November.
4. Could I get this bear categorized as a "problem animal" which I can just shoot instead of having to pursue within the laws and ethics of hunting?
Don't accept anybodys answer to this question, other than you local game warden.
5. Will hunting this one bear during this one season (and future bears with future licenses in future seasons) do any good? Will it keep the bear presence within a couple of miles of my home "down"? Or will the niche be quickly filled with other bears, making my efforts futile?
I don't think it's a futile effort. I think you would do well to re-establish who the "top preditor" in the woods is.
The bear is competing with you for resources. You want the berries. Blackie wants the berries. You want a safe place to raise your cub. Blackie wants the same. Yet Blackie has no moral dilemma about throwing his/her wait around.
harrygunner
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I see an analogy between wild animals and firearms. Rather than banning either, use our intelligence to safely interact with both.
Just like it's our responsibility to teach safe firearms techniques to our children, teach them how to safely co-exist with wild animals.
Just like it's our responsibility to teach safe firearms techniques to our children, teach them how to safely co-exist with wild animals.
Horsesense
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I just want to post an alternate view and I hope you all are mature enough to understand what I am saying.
I happen to live in the same community that my family has lived in since before the Civil War and my grand dads have worked hard to kill off bears etc. I was told stories about the men getting together and hunting down a bear, because if a bear got in your garden or killed your milk cow etc you went hungry and bears are a danger to people. One of the first explorers to my area (Dr. Thomas Walker) had a horse killed and a man mauled by bear in ambush.
I don't know about where you live, but the old timers tell me that there are more woods now than when they were kids, and far less farm land, and the animals are encroaching in on me.
I think animals go extinct for good reasons and once a dangerous animal has been run of it is a shame to let them come back.
I also think it's a shame that people push a "new morality" down the throats of others when the ethical and moral thing throughout history has been to kill animals that are a danger to your children.
Climbing off my soap box... You will now be returned to your regular programing.
I happen to live in the same community that my family has lived in since before the Civil War and my grand dads have worked hard to kill off bears etc. I was told stories about the men getting together and hunting down a bear, because if a bear got in your garden or killed your milk cow etc you went hungry and bears are a danger to people. One of the first explorers to my area (Dr. Thomas Walker) had a horse killed and a man mauled by bear in ambush.
I don't know about where you live, but the old timers tell me that there are more woods now than when they were kids, and far less farm land, and the animals are encroaching in on me.
I think animals go extinct for good reasons and once a dangerous animal has been run of it is a shame to let them come back.
I also think it's a shame that people push a "new morality" down the throats of others when the ethical and moral thing throughout history has been to kill animals that are a danger to your children.
Climbing off my soap box... You will now be returned to your regular programing.
XDKingslayer
member
Aguila....BRAVO!
JImbothefiveth
Member
Allright, I didn't read the replies but I saw your post.
There is nothing wrong with shooting a bear that is a danger to you and your family.
Are you going to let your son get killed, just because you wouldn't eat the thing? I don't know if it will solve the problem or not, but there is nothing wrong with it.
There is nothing wrong with shooting a bear that is a danger to you and your family.
Are you going to let your son get killed, just because you wouldn't eat the thing? I don't know if it will solve the problem or not, but there is nothing wrong with it.
JImbothefiveth
Member
You should look up how effective this is, percentage wise. I think it's actually a pretty good stopper, possibly better than firearms.
I think that once a bear attacks humans, it should be killed, as it might do so again
But this whole thread is getting ridiculous. It's an ANIMAL. Not a human. Why is it okay to kill it for a trophy, or for food, or for fun(would you really hunt if it wasn't fun?) but not because it poses a danger to human life? It's like a cow or a deer. It is just an animal. I'm willing to bet that if it was a human, these same guys would say "shoot it".
Unless hunting is immoral(and even if you think it is.) if a bear is threatening a human, the choice is clear.
And +1 on hunters for the hungry.
And I don't know the laws in your state, but make sure you get the right kind of slugs, I've never used them, but hear they are
for use on bears. http://www.dixieslugs.com/ One of their products supposedly penetrates more than a .416 rigby sofpoint, so it's probably not advised for use on elephants . It will probably go completely through a black bear shot from the side, not sure about the head.
The second page especially, it's starting to sound like a PETA meeting.:banghead:
Cosmoline
Member
What makes anyone assume the bear is trying to eat his son?
Well that's the crux of the issue. In theory all bears are dangerous. Does that mean you should hunt down and kill all the bears? That was the prevailing wisdom for a long time, and led to extermination of the brown bear in the lower 48 and a great many black bear.
Ideas have changed since them. Having lived around both black and brown bears I can see a real benefit to having them around, in part because they pose a theoretical risk. It isn't good for people to be too comfortable. Moreover, as many here have pointed out it's not going to do any good to try to hunt down a particular bear that gave you stink eye or something. Two more will take his place even if you can find him. There are other measures for discouraging them that actually work, from eliminating the food supply to getting some dogs to run them off.
Also, the idea of needing to use a DIXIE PARADOX SLUG to bring down a black bear is nutty. Those things will dislocate your shoulder and are total overkill. A .30-30 with 170 partitions or a .44 mag levergun are more than sufficient.
deaconkharma
Member
one last time...
get dogs.
they make great playfriends for a child.
they make good smells for bear repellent.
they make great delay/ distractions for any retreat.
they make good sentries.
if he/she still comes around, the dogs will let you know and you can get yourself a nice new rug
......Edit to include story......
Dogs Defend Owner And House From Bear
Filed under: Other Pets, Dogs, National Dog, Cat & Pet Info, News for Cats, Dogs & Owners — Emily Huh @ 3:56 am
Daniel Kelly, a resident of Saugerties, New York, awoke to barking and loud noises in his backyard.
When Kelly opened the back door, he didn’t have his glasses on and saw a figure and yelled at it thinking it was a burglar. In actuality, the “burglar” was a black bear that was only a few feet away.
His two 50-pound chow-chow dogs, who are normally gentle and docile, realized the danger that their owner was in and started to jump on the bear. The dogs wrestled with the bear for almost 20 minutes.
Unfortunately, Kelly was blocked from his back door and couldn’t get back in the house while his dogs and the bear were wrestling.
Kelly said that at one point, the bear tried to climb over his fence, but his two dogs pulled the bear back into the yard. Kelly was finally able to get into his house and retrieve his 12-gauge shotgun.
He went back outside with the shotgun to help his dogs. Kelly got too close to the bear and the bear took a swipe at him. He then fired a warning shot which scared the bear up a tree. Eventually, the bear left the yard.
Both of Kelly’s dogs survived the scuffle with no injuries except for one scratch to one of the dog’s legs.
Source: Daily Freeman
get dogs.
they make great playfriends for a child.
they make good smells for bear repellent.
they make great delay/ distractions for any retreat.
they make good sentries.
if he/she still comes around, the dogs will let you know and you can get yourself a nice new rug
......Edit to include story......
Dogs Defend Owner And House From Bear
Filed under: Other Pets, Dogs, National Dog, Cat & Pet Info, News for Cats, Dogs & Owners — Emily Huh @ 3:56 am
Daniel Kelly, a resident of Saugerties, New York, awoke to barking and loud noises in his backyard.
When Kelly opened the back door, he didn’t have his glasses on and saw a figure and yelled at it thinking it was a burglar. In actuality, the “burglar” was a black bear that was only a few feet away.
His two 50-pound chow-chow dogs, who are normally gentle and docile, realized the danger that their owner was in and started to jump on the bear. The dogs wrestled with the bear for almost 20 minutes.
Unfortunately, Kelly was blocked from his back door and couldn’t get back in the house while his dogs and the bear were wrestling.
Kelly said that at one point, the bear tried to climb over his fence, but his two dogs pulled the bear back into the yard. Kelly was finally able to get into his house and retrieve his 12-gauge shotgun.
He went back outside with the shotgun to help his dogs. Kelly got too close to the bear and the bear took a swipe at him. He then fired a warning shot which scared the bear up a tree. Eventually, the bear left the yard.
Both of Kelly’s dogs survived the scuffle with no injuries except for one scratch to one of the dog’s legs.
Source: Daily Freeman
JImbothefiveth
Member
He said he had a 12 gauge shotgun and a .40S&W pistol.
I'm not sure a deer slug would do a good job on a black bear, and the .40s&w has less energy than a .223. I knew of this slug, designed for dangerous game, but not any other.
He was worried about it harming him or his family, and some people are suggesting that if it does he should risk his life to try to spare it's life.
No, but this one is on his property, raiding his trash cans. I think that if his son is out playing and Mr. bear decides he wants some food from the trash, his son is now in immediate danger.
Now if he just wants to take out the problem bear, I think it can be done, if his state laws allow.
When the bear raids the trash, get everyone inside, and take him out right then and there, if it's not illegal. I would get everyone up to the second story, make sure there are not any trees close to the window, and hit him with something powerful. I'm not sure if the bear getting to him is likely when he is in the house though, anyone care to comment? And make sure you know where to shoot!
Jorg Nysgerrig
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You know, I've read this entire thread 3 times now, and I don't quite see where the bear is the main problem.
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