Problems with gangs and gang members

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Often the "flashy" ones are just showing off and are posers. The ones you really need to be worried about are low-flash lurkers in beaters, SUV's or other ordinary looking cars. If something looks out of place it probably is. For example a few months ago I noticed a black Ford sedan idling by the side of the apartments where I live. Two black guys in the front, looking all around nervously. It's Sunday and the shops are closed. They're not waiting for church. And the spot they were waiting in was just ... wrong. It was all wrong. I grabbed my .450 Marlin and gave them a little tactical stink eye (without revealing the rifle). They drove off.

No way would I rely on my CCW in a situation like that unless I absolutely had to. If you have an option bring the biggest baddest firearm you have and keep it close without brandishing it.

Do you want complications in your life? I don't.

It's a good point and something to keep in mind. But there are other considerations. I've lived in gang-infested areas many times in my life. Once these guys get in they're really, really hard to remove. The police can't do diddly about it. So if I see people I'm pretty sure are dealing H or crack in *MY* area I want them to know I'm not afraid. Tactically perfect? No. But there are considerations beyond tactics.
 
They might not be gang members. Lots of kids nowdays dress and drive gangsta. However, being aware of your surroundings and prepared doesn't hurt. What's most likely is that they were partying in the vacant house down the street. They wanted to make sure that you weren't a LEO before they started smoking pot and hittin' hos. However, they might be gang members. Because of the recent real estate slump, lots of gangs are using vacant houses to do illegal activities. That's because nobody ever go views vacant houses anymore due to the bad economy and housing slump. As long as they didn't approach your house, I wouldn't worry about it. Stay safe....
 
Casing the neighborhood, or looking for a new crack house. Be on guard now for the next couple of weeks. Next time, get a plate # and description, call cops and get neighbors out to man the walkway and watch them. They'll know the neighborhood isn't buying what they're selling, too many eyes.
 
From my experience as a high school student today, I'd watch out for the ones who don't seem interested in pot. Some people think they're too good for "soft stuff" and eventually do some really bad things. But sometimes talking is the best solution. With a story of discouragement (this one about how alcohol ruined a family member's life) things can turn around. It did for someone I know, and thankfully he's gotten out of some of the stuff he was in. Or maybe have a youth that you trust try to talk to them (If they're around that age). And yes, lots of kids dress like hoods and blast awful music.
 
trigun87 said:
WOW, Ive read all of this thread and all I can see is assumptions. Driving a customized car down a street you dont live on isnt' a crime, nor is being a minority in an older car a crime either.

I feel this way because just last friday I went to buy a small vending machine from a guy off craigslist, I went to his neighborhood and was unable to find the house. So I pulled over on the side of the road to check the address on my phone. Some crazy starts yelling at me that they are calling the cops. am I tresspassing on a public street, or am I just being profiled for being a minority and driving a gang affiliated green toyota corolla ..

You're actually admitting to driving a gang affiliated vehicle?

I think I'll just take the high road on this one.



-K
 
A few thoughts:

1) Be aware of the fact that they may have been scoping you out for a future burglary. You mentioned that you were wearing camo, but are there any other "signs" in or around your home that might indicate that you own guns? (maybe a gun safe in the garage, NRA stickers on your cars, etc)

2) I'd have called the police sooner. Most of the gangs around here aren't into retaliation against "civilians" for the little stuff, but the police can certainly put a bit of pressure on them, and hopefully get them to move on from your neighborhood.

3) It is generally best to avoid confrontation with these folks if it is possible to do so. I've had a few instances where "urban pioneers" in my district have decided to personally confront gang-bangers, and while these situations typically end with little more than threats and such, it still isn't a great idea! It doesn't sound like you pushed the issue, and that's good enough in my book.

4) Personally, I say that you did well to stand your ground simply by continuing with your day-to-day routine. Many others would disagree with me, and that would include the majority of my colleagues in law enforcement. But, I figure that I worked hard for the stuff I have, and I also have every right to be doing my own thing on my own property. If they don't like it, too bad... My house, my land, my choice. I'm not itching for a fight with anyone, as I get more than enough of that at work, but I absolutely will not be intimidated on my own turf by some low-life who wants to show his friends how "hard" he believes he is!

In my experience, most of the gang bangers we deal with are truly cowards. They only act tough when the have 5-10+ friends backing them up, and they are usually seeking "respect" under the mere threat of violence. Don't get me wrong, there are certainly some street-hardened thugs out there, but I still believe that the majority of these losers simply don't have the intestinal fortitude that is required to make it through life without ganging up (pun intended) on their intended victims.

Similarly, these cowards look for easy prey. The person who slinks away and looks unsure of themselves is that "prey", while the person who stands tall and appears unconcerned is probably going to be regarded as another "predator".


cosmoline said:
Often the "flashy" ones are just showing off and are posers. The ones you really need to be worried about are low-flash lurkers in beaters, SUV's or other ordinary looking cars.

I've actually found this to be fairly true as well. There are exceptions to every rule, but I've found that the real players on the streets where I work are often not the most obvious folks out there. The guy who is dressed down in colors is often a low-level 'banger, or somebody trying to become indoctrinated into the gang. Having said that, these low-level players can often be the most dangerous, just by virtue of the fact that they are still trying to prove themselves to the other turds!
 
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trigun87 --

One does not wait for a crime to be committed to go on the alert. I work in Detroit where I am a minority. If I get mislaid and off the main routes, I expect the local residents to take note.

Recently, at a gas station, a member of the local majority rushed at me screaming. I laughed. He was "funning" the [insert ethnicity] guy. I did not show him why his act did not inspire the fear he expected. I went in to the station to pay. When I returned to my car, they berserker had already filled the tank for me.

It can be hard to judge the intent of others, but don't drop your guard and don't ask others to drop theirs.
 
A long sorry saga

I debated about whether to mention my mother's experience with gangs and decided to go ahead and put this up because it might help some people realize what can be involved when you deal with gangs.

First, my mother lived on a major 4 lane highway in a relatively small town of 50,000 or so in the Midsouth. She is a licensed teacher and teaches inmates in County Jail lockdown for them to get their GED's under contract to the local sheriff. She has been doing that for over 15 years. So her relationship with the county deputies and sheriff is excellent and she is well acquainted with meth heads, coke heads, and all other sorts of chemically induced mayhem. However, believe it or not, the inmates treat her with respect and she rarely has much of an issue in the jail. And yes, I am sure that there are drug dealers in there etc.

Her real troubles started roughly three years ago when my father's medical condition (congestive heart failure) drastically worsened. My parents had a large 2 acre lot adjacent to a supermarket with a payphone. A security fence separated the store from my parent's lot. A variety of rough characters in shabby vehicles began hanging back from the gas pumps and they were frequently using the phone. As her carport was open in that direction, I advised here to screen it with plants so that they could not see her coming or going. That went on for a few more months but increasingly "youths" began tracking across the back of her yard to access the store by going through the bushes etc. Furthermore, she was always watched by these folks when she went out to do yardwork etc.

Next, when she came home, it was apparent that someone had tried to pry the front door open but failed due to stout deadbolts and a solid core door. Stuff began to disappear from around the grounds. Of course the local city cops were called and she filed reports etc. but nothing really was done. I became alarmed when I visited from out of state and while driving away from her house, a van full of "youths" pulled beside me and flashed gang symbols at me while driving. I ignored them but immediately called my mother and sure enough the van I described to her was often parked at the supermarket. Later on that visit, I installed an alarm system covering the doors, windows, and other key access points. I also made sure that my mother knew how to operate them. Shortly thereafter, my father died and my mother was alone. The harassment doubled. People went across her yard at all hours, cigarette butts were piling up at the end of her driveway on this major highway. She was constantly being watched and occasionally verbally harassed by the folks next door.
One month after my father died, she asked me for help in getting a firearm that she could shoot. She was 67 and had never touched a firearm in her life. As my father's firearms were not really helpful to a small inexperienced shooter with arthritis, I made sure that she got a 20 gauge pump shotgun that she was comfortable with (thick padding, etc.) and she got her concealed carry license. She slept with that shotgun by her bedside and eventually acquired a small 9mm pistol. She learned to shoot both proficiently by going to an indoor range and practicing on a regular basis. When I was able, I also supplemented her instruction along with my father in law. During this time, the harassment kept getting worse. At this time, I put in a 4 camera video surveillance unit with camera rolling 24/7 and posted a sign outside of the house noting this fact.

I also helped her put two solid oak core exterior doors inside the home with deadbolts to give her time to prepare to either flee or hole up in her bedroom waiting for the police. During this time, her perimeter alarms were triggered usually late at night (never during the day), laser pointers were aimed at her cameras from either the supermarket or the field across from her house, and she carried a gun to do such things as a getting gas, shopping, etc. She never went out after dark and had the police on speed dial. The local police tired after several trips out to the house in the middle of the night due to tripped alarms. Funny how they never went off in the daytime. During this time, she was trying to sell the house and move elsewhere but she refused to be run out of her house. The harassment didn't end at the house. Several times, my mother was nearly run off the road by "youths." As a result, she only took the main roads at the most busy hours. The sheriff's department was very supportive but somewhat apologetic that they didn't have jurisdiction over her house as it was in the city limits. Her immediate supervisor at the jail came several times himself to respond to late at night incursions.

This harassment only stopped when my mother moved away and sold her property after basically three years in purgatory. Apparently, her presence affected the drug dealing going on next door and they didn't like it. When helping my mother pack to leave, I left her house at about midnight and flushed one of the "youths" hiding in the bushes at the end of my mother's driveway. He ran away across the 5 lane highway when I came down the driveway in my car and spotlighted him in the headlights. I was so astonished that it took about 5 minutes to use my cell to call my mother and tell her to call the police. I talked with them and gave them a description but by the time the police arrived (about 15 minutes later), the guy had disappeared.

Lessons that I took away from this sorry mess. First, "youths" won't necessarily go away if you ignore them. Instead, they can and will escalate to prove their manhood. Of course, they prefer soft targets like most predators. Second, alarm systems, video surveillance, calling the local police, etc. can be useful but can also put you in a state of siege through calculated harassment by "youths" triggering them intentionally. As my mother worked a job during the day, they harassed her at night and wore her down through lack of sleep. Other aggressive techniques such as shining bright lights into her bedroom, flashing gang symbols at her in her carport, hostile looks, following her car, try to force her off the road, etc. were all intended to intimidate and contain her.
Third, the local police can do little if the gangs have good lookouts as they scatter like cockroaches with the lights on. Thirty minutes later, they are back in business. Fourth, dealing with meth heads is not like dealing with the hippie pot dealers of yore. Meth is a nasty addictive drug that is highly profitable for dealers and gangs with great repeat business. These folks can be aggressive and nasty under the best of circumstances. My mother knew what meth heads looked like from her job and these folks fit right in.
Fifth, in many of these small towns, a rising problem is coming from outsider gangs looking to move into new territory with close ties to foreign drug cartels from south of the border. These folks often employ locals at low levels in their organization but have their own people at mid level and higher and these people are very dangerous.

Sorry about the long post but I hope that it might give some food for thought. BTW, my mother never brandished, talked to the "youths", never scared them off the place with her shotgun loaded with rock salt, etc. She never escalated any confrontation with them aside from calling the police when her alarms were triggered and was ask the supermarket next door to get rid of the payphone which they eventually did.
 
I worked for a company that has operations in many cities around the Country and a huge % of the employees are young black males. Most of the cars in the parking lots are similar to the description in your post. And they aren't thugs or gang members. At all.


As far as you know...
 
So how was it determined that the people in the original post were gang members?

It wasn't. It was an assumption made off the appearance of the vehicle, which the OP said fit the gang member profile.
 
First off I want to say this is not a personal attack.

Marine one-

My statement about my green toyota was clearly sarcasm.

To all- I believe that one should not put his guard down. However I believe that one should not believe that WW3 is going to happen just because you see an individual or group that is opposite of you. May it be age , race, type of car or whatever. Believe it or not I grew up in the inner city were all those "gangs" come from, most of my friends are from there to. It may suprise you but 95% of the minority individuals I know dont want anything and I mean anything to do with a gun. Much less a gang.

BTW most of my friends are now army are in college or finishing college, like me.

OP- Im not saying what you did is wrong, (not a lawyer) I just dont think the assumption was necessary. However I do disagree with the action of proactivly going in the house and then returning with the CZ. You could have simply reported a suspicious vehicle copied license plate and observed from your residence. If something were to happen like an altercation, and shoots would have been fired and someone were to get hurt hopoefully not you. The DA might have something negative to say about you proactively going in your house grabbing a firearm and preparing for the confrontation, when you could have avoided it. (Not a lawyer)
 
"but with northside being blue and southside being red,"

youve got that twisted, norte14/catorce gangs rep red/rojo, sur13/trece reps blue/azul.

and yes there is alot of Nortenos in Nampa and Caldwell with deep connections to the bay area.
 
trigun87 said:
First off I want to say this is not a personal attack.

This is more about educating/informing others, and I don't view it as an attack at all.

Two of the biggest reasons why I moved from California was:

1. The gun laws and,
2. Not being able to legally protect myself and my family due to the laws changing for 3 years in a row.

We lived in an upscale rental community (condo's) but our downstairs neighbor was shot and killed in what I had been told by the family of this guy was an accidental shooting. Coming home to see the coroner pulling a body out of my building in a bag on top of a stretcher is gut wrenching, especially when you don't know what exactly was going on.

The police later confirmed it was indeed a drug deal gone bad. He had been home alone, and no weapon was recovered.

Due to living in SoCal and having close friends on some of the police departments like Fontana, Garden Grove, and Santa Ana, getting to know what I needed to look for to identify the gang bangers was openly discussed over beer and hot wings we the guys got together. So I told them about what happened and asked for help and info. Here are some of the things they told me I should look for to help ID the bad guys from the good ones.

- Tattoos like throat ink, tear drops on their cheek, and gang tattoos on the arms and on the sides of the neck

- Obvious dental fillings, aka the chrome or gold grill

- Gang colors (shirts, bandanas, straight rimmed hats, colored tattoos, shoes, etc.)

- Cars (paint jobs, rims/wheels, window tint, etc.). I didn't understand this one until one of my friends told me, "These cars have expensive paint jobs with expensive car parts like chrome and oversized rims/wheels and tires. Some even have airbags and modified suspensions like show cars. When was the last time you saw a show car on the interstate?". That's when it dawned on me .... my neighbor that had been killed had fit the profile and I didn't even see it.

- Cars part 2. This was my biggest mistake and I'm passing it on to you: know your neighbors. Know the cars that drive through your neighborhood, and know the people that drive those cars.


This last one hit home for me because I didn't know my neighbors and it could have cost me the life of a loved one.



Kris
 
Most of the advice you've gotten so far is good. IMHO, whether or not these guys are gangbangers doesn't make much of a difference in how you respond, though it may well dictate future events.

First, the OP did well to be aware of the potential problems of having suspicious-looking visitors to your neighborhood. I'd also advise him, though, not to be overly focused on appearance to the detriment of tracking the movements of "respectable-looking" strangers. It's always critically important to call the police quickly and to provide them as much information as you possibly can--description of the car and its occupants, license plate numbers, etc. While it's conceivable they might have been there for innocent reasons, I tend to trust my gut feeling when it comes to situations like this, as the OP did.

Bad guys of any ilk, whether gangbangers or otherwise, like to operate in areas where they believe they can act with relative impunity. By calling the cops and getting them on the scene to check out these guys face-to-face, the message is clearly sent that someone is watching. This is why it was also a good idea to alert the neighbors. In doing so, I'd ask them to quickly call the police if they notice unusual activities, rather than just noting it. The key, I believe, is to ensure that the message is sent that this is not a perp-friendly neighborhood.

As far as the whole idea of grabbing your pistol from the house, I'd say that's generally a good idea. In fact, the OP might ask himself why he was outside without it in the first place. However, as noted somewhere above, this also puts you in a potentially precarious position: Joe Citizen sees "suspicious" people and grabs his gun . . . was he looking to shoot someone? Better, I think, to always be legally armed when you're in a potentially vulnerable position.

I wouldn't change my lifestyle based on one isolated occurrence like this, but it probably warrants a shift from Condition Yellow to Condition Yellow-Plus. Any recurrence of this sort of thing should result in an immediate call to the police. Also, this also seems like a good time to review your basic home security--locks, alarms, etc. Maybe you don't need to change anything, but it doesn't hurt to critically examine your practices from time to time.

Good luck with this. Please keep us posted if it progresses any further.
 
Lot's of paranoid people here. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. Generally a nice, "hey buddy what are you doing here?" Will tell me their intentions and whether or not they are making up a story or really acting suspicious.
Here locally the homeless have been robbing people, that doesn't mean I assume the homeless guy asking for change is gonna rob me at knife point. If he does; he's in for a surprise (even if I don't have a gun).
 
You did everything you can, but my one opinion with gang encounters is to have something more than a handgun at the ready. There are a lot of them in the car, generally all armed.
 
About 10 yrs ago, while living in Fayetteville, NC (Fayettenam, for those who've done time at Bragg), some sleazebag landlord in the neighborhood rented a house to a couple of drug dealers.

The liked to do the "saggin 'n draggin" walk thru the neighborhood & stare people down, trying to intimidate them.

Saw 'em headed toward my end of the street one evening. Realizing that the next day was trash day, I wheeled my can out to the curb, with a stainless, medium frame revolver on my hip. No brandishing, no leading with my strong side- just took out the trash while carrying.

They immediately did a 180 & never approached my end of the street again.
 
OK, folks.

I'm tired of editing posts trying to keep this a family friendly board. From here on out, either keep it clean or don't bother typing it, because as soon as I see @#$%^&, I'm deleting the whole post it's contained within.

lpl
 
"NAMPA, ID-- Five teens from Canyon County and a Nampa woman are charged in connection with a gang-related shooting that left two homes riddled with bullets earlier this month.

Nampa Police arrested the teens for the Oct. 17th shooting on Nampa's Asbury Drive. No one was injured in either residence. Police say the shooting was gang related.

All five juveniles are being held in the Canyon County Juvenile Detention Center.

In custody are:

* A 17-year-old male from Caldwell and two 17-year-old males from Nampa are charged with two counts of shooting into an occupied dwelling.

* A 16-year-old female from Caldwell and a 17-year-old Nampa teen are both charged with two counts of aiding and abetting in the shooting.

* Monico Lopez-Carranza, 19, of Nampa, is charged with two counts of shooting into an occupied dwelling and is being held in the Canyon County Jail.

More arrests are expected in this case as the investigation continues, officials said."

Not sure who was involved in this one....................


"GARDEN CITY, ID - Police say they have arrested a Nampa man in connection to Monday's Garden City murder.

On Tuesday, police say they arrested Carlos Navarrete, 27, who's from Nampa at about 11 a.m.

Police say the homicide occurred in the 8300 block of Chinden Boulevard between Maple Grove and Glenwood. Authorities say they responded to a call of shots fired at about 11:45 a.m. Monday. When they arrived, police found Irving Romero, 25, who later died at St. Alphonsus of a single gunshot wound.

Navarrete has been charged with second degree murder.

Police have not released a motive in the shooting but did say that the murder investigation did take them into the drug community between Ada and Canyon County.

Navarrete, who was described by police as transient, lived in the Nampa area.

Garden City Police had said they were looking for three men connected to the crime that fled in a pickup truck. On Tuesday, police said they found the pickup and the three men and identified Navarrete as the shooter.

The other two have not been arrested at this time, but police say they're continuing to investigate."

In this case all involved are from W/S Loma Locos 13.
 
I have already stated that I would do absolutely everything possible to avoid contact with them at all, but for THIS particular problem, I would keep a mag full of M855 handy as well. It is very possible to be fired at from a vehicle and need to RETURN fire to that vehicle.
 
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