Progressive or single stage for beginner?

[Chris Rhines]

I started with the progressive. I wanted to load a whole lot of ammo, so speed of operation was a major factor. Eventually I got a pair of cheap single-stage presses for specific tasks, but I can't imagine loading serious quantities of ammo on them.

There's no reason not to start with a progressive press, unless you just can't swing the price.

- Chris

 

[aka108]

I started reloading for rifle calibers with a single stage press. Still use it for that purpose. When I commenced loading for handgun calibers, experience with the single stage taught me that if I shot 2 or 3 hundred rounds I could start spending my life reloading. Went right to a progressive (Dillon Squaredeal). Easy to use, just take time to read the manual on set up and operation.

 

[rbstern]

One more strong vote for a turret press as the perfect beginner tool that you can grow with.

 

[robctwo]

Had to chime in again. I started loading pistol and the LnL is perfect for that. I moved into rifle last year and have begun some efforts to load really accurate stuff. I size and prime the cases in one continuous run. Then I clean and trim. Hand weigh the charges, then back into the LnL to seat the bullet and crimp with Lee FCD. Some are crimped, some are not. Trying different stuff. At the range today I shot some 168 gr Hornady molly coated BTHP loaded that way. Not quite a one hole group but getting there.

As folks have said, we can use a progressive like a single stage, or not.

 

[claiborne]

Church of Many Colors

I use a Bonanza co-ax press, Lee and Forster dies, RCBS hand primer, Cabelas digital scale, Hornady case prep tools, Lyman Tumbler, (I buy fine walnut media at a "Feed and Seed" store, 15 bucks for 50 pounds), Bonanza powder thrower and cabelas and mtm cartridge holders. Mostly what this represents is the savings of several hundred dollars by shoppping for second hand loading equipment at gun shows. I pick up brass out in the desert and purchase my bullets, primers and powder "on sale". I ENJOY my loading hobby as much as I enjoy being a rifleman, hunter, shooter and competitor. I load 45 acp, 44 mag, 357 mag, 30-06, 308, 243, 223, and my newest little lovely, 19 badger. I load 5000-7000 rounds per year with my myriad equipment. When I miss what I am aiming at, my ammunition and my firearms are not to blame. I would feel cheated if my primary input to this process was the mere pulling of a lever each time a round dropped in the bucket. My wife is my love, my son is my passion, my home is my solace and my handloading hobby is my therapy.

 

[abarth]

I think people say beginner should start with a single stage press are baseless. This is like saying as a beginner you should start with a calulator and work your way up to a computer. I think there are recentablely smart people and dumb people, smart people should start with whatever they can afford, and dumb people should not reload at all. I myself have a Lee Classic Turret press. I got it because I couldn't afford a progressive press. I am really happy with it, reliable, easy to use, I can use it as a single stage and load large rifle round with it. I only wish I can load faster. If you consider yourself recentablely smart and have the $$$ get yourself a turret or progressive and stay away from a single.

 

[ezypikns]

I started out with a RockChucker from RCBS

It was a quality single stage press kit. It came with almost everything I needed to get started. I was really nervous about reloading. So a single stage press seemed like a good answer for me at the time. All I ever reloaded was revolver and pistol ammo.
Believe me, the RockChucker press will more than handle any pistol or rifle caliber you care to reload.
Single stage presses will not crank out a lot of ammo in a hurry though. I bought a Redding Turret press in order to speed up the process. It helped a little, but not that much.
I have now purchased a Dillon RL550B. I don't believe it's a TRUE progressive, because it doesn't auto index (I'm going to get flamed for that). I'm quite happy with it and the production it supplies. I DO enjoy reloading, but after all, I reload so I can shoot more.
So you see, you'll probably experience something like that if you start out with a single stage press. If you buy something that doesn't suit you, sell it and move on. I doubt that you'll only purchase one press for the rest of your life.
One thing I will say though. Don't be afraid to buy Lee dies if you're reloading handgun ammo. I have found them to be outstanding at much less cost. For match grade rifle ammo, you may want to go with Redding or RCBS dies, although I'm sure there are some rifle shooters who swear by Lee dies too.
Have fun and be safe.

 

[bakert]

The progressives are nice especially for the high volume shooters but to claim it's the best way to go for everyone especially a beginner is utter nonsense. JMHO

 

[deadin]

Single Stage or Turret for a beginner, Yes. Starting out with a Progressive? Not a great idea. (IMHO) As for those that say modern progressive's are foolproof, just haven't found a properly trained fool.
Also, concerning those recommending a Dillon or such for a starting press. Why should anyone spend $500 plus just to find out if they have the temperment and/or patience for handloading?
(Also, some of us are into the "zen" of reloading and really don't care if we can turn out 100's of rounds an hour)

Dean

 

[EddieCoyle]

Why should anyone spend $500 plus just to find out if they have the temperment and/or patience for handloading?
(Also, some of us are into the "zen" of reloading and really don't care if we can turn out 100's of rounds an hour)

My lack of patience is exactly why I switched to a progressive (and wish I'd started with one).

Zen Schmen. I shoot about 1000 rounds per week. I can load all I need in one evening and spend more time shooting.

 

[benedict1]

Medula, this thread has turned awesome! Thank you for telling us about your family and how you've incorporated shooting as a family event.

I'm sure many guys envy you. I do. Single stage sounds just perfect in your house!

Dominus Vobiscum!

 

[RustyFN]

Medula that is awesome.

 

[donttellthewife]

I started reloading on a dillon 650 and never had any problems related to not haveing reloaded before. I studied the manual, watched the video, and started slooooooowly. When I ran into something I didn't understand I just called dillons toll free line and they walked me through it, very nice people. With the low primer alarm, low powder alarm and the powder load alarm its hard to make to many mistakes. The bullet tray, roller handle, tall mount, and case feeder are what make it possible to load about 750 rounds an hour. I was very lucky that I got my press dirt cheap off of Craigslist 450.00 for everything listed plus dies, powder and bullets. Within a week I found another for 300.00 without all the goodies and some broken parts, When I called dillon to order parts to fix it they would not take my money even when they knew I bought it as is used. Now I don't know about other brands of progressive loaders or what I would have bought if I had to pay retail but I am sure happy with the press and yes start with a progressive you won't regret it.

5000 rounds 9mm
2500 rounds 45acp
1000 rounds 38 spl
3000 rounds 308
2000 rounds 223
no double loads, no empty loads, no failure to fire, 100% good ammo
If I can do it so can you

 

[deadin]

I got my press dirt cheap off of Craigslist 450.00 for everything listed plus dies, powder and bullets. Within a week I found another for 300.00 without all the goodies

This is making my point. You got a good deal and then decided that reloading was something you liked to do. How about the folks that probably paid over $500-600 + for these presses and decided that reloading wasn't for them and had to sell them at a loss? I guess if your wallet can take a hit like that, go for it. Nothing like starting out with the most expensive.

Dean

 

[benedict1]

Medula, may the Lord bless you and keep you. I don't know about others here but you have been given treasures from God that cannot be bought--

Give those little girls a hug from all of us. I'd also like to shake your hand.

 

[spencerhut]

Church ain't got nuthin to do with it . . .

I think it's wise for anyone to learn what is going on with a single stage first. I'm not saying you can't jump right into a progressive. I just think you would get a better understanding by using, or at the very least watching someone else use, a single stage. There is something to be said for handling the cases several times in the beginning. You gain several things from this.
1. Appreciation and understanding of what happens at each stage.
2. A feeling for what each stage should "feel" like as you are running the press handle up and down.
3. A crystal clear mental picture of what the cartridge should look *and feel* like before and after each stage.
4. An understanding of what you will be gaining *and loosing* by loading on a progressive.
You will save a *lot* of time and loose a small amount of safety (some say accuracy) by switching to a progressive.
I'd recommend getting a single stage or turret to start with. It's not like you will never use the single/turret again once you get a progressive. There will always be reasons to pull out the ol' single stage. Mine has never moved since it was originally mounted to my bench. I still use it on a regular basis for low volume work or for little things like depriming before a wet case washing.

I use RCBS presses, Rock Chucker & Pro2000. These things will survive a nuclear blast. The priming system on the Pro200 makes every other one I've seen and used look like a dangerous joke. It's the main reason I bought the Pro2000 and I am very glad I did. Primer strips are available from CCI or you can buy empty ones and load whatever primer you feel like using in them. I do anywhere from 300 to 450 rounds an hour and I am NEVER in a hurry when I reload. Death will come fast enough without rushing the reloading process. Besides the ER is over an hour away and it pisses off my wife when she has to stop what she is doing and take me to the ER.

Lee and RCBS dies. I like the Lee dies better regardless of cost. They are so much easier to adjust it's not even funny. And despite looking "cheap", they make better, more consistent ammo, than the RCBS dies.

Lyman digital scale / powder dispenser. It works ok, I'd get something else if I did it over.

Lyman tumbler, works just fine. I also use fine walnut from the local feed store for $11.00 a 50lb bag. Throw in a used dryer sheet or two with each batch. Keeps the dust down and pick up fine particles.

L.E. Wilson Max Case Gages. Nice to have one for each caliber. You can use the barrel off your gun to start out, works the same. The gauge just saves you the time of tearing the gun down and putting it back together.

Hope this helps . . ..

 

[benedict1]

Why buy used or broken presses when you could get a brand new Lee Load Master progressive for less than $275, shipped to your house from Midway??

They are simple to setup and are built beautifully. I understand that Dillon will rebuild forever but not everyone is capable of starting out with used gear.

Here is a link to the setup of my Load Master last week--dead simple to set up-

http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=600465

I still argue though that this is not the way to start. I tried it with Dillon gear and really never got off the ground, plus they sent me a press that didn't work, and I didn't have the background to sort it all out. I sent it back and bought a Lee Classic Turret Press and learned about reloading first. Now the Load Master is easy.

 

[donttellthewife]

"This is making my point. You got a good deal and then decided that reloading was something you liked to do. How about the folks that probably paid over $500-600 + for these presses and decided that reloading wasn't for them and had to sell them at a loss? I guess if your wallet can take a hit like that, go for it. Nothing like starting out with the most expensive."


I did not decide to reload just because I got a good deal. I researched for about a year as to if it would be worth it to reload, and then the hunt was on for a good deal, which took another year and a half. As far as getting ones money back out of a press, if you get a Dillon it looks as if you'll get most of your money back when resold. The only reason I got a good deal is that the people who were selling them didn't know what they had, and yes I took full advantage of that.

I would recommend to anyone to start out with the best progressive you can afford, after you have done your homework. If the concept of doing more than one operation at a time overwelms you then you can set up the press to do one operation at a time like a single stage press until your sure about what going on.

As much as I have enjoyed reloading, I enjoy saving money on ammo even more, this has not happend yet. I will have to load many more thousands of rounds to come out ahead, this is good because I enjoy shooting most of all. I knew all the numbers before I purchased anything, so this comes at no suprise. I also value my time so the more ammo per hour is important, quality ammo that is. If a person does not do the math first they may find that reloading is not going to save any money, if they don't shoot enough its not worth it, however if you shoot very little or want to work up hunting/ benchrest ammo maybe the single stage best. The name of the game is good information before you do anything.

Know these things
what kind of ammo, hand gun, rilfe, hunting, benchrest, wildcat, plinking, ect
how many rounds a year will you need/want
cost of reloading components
cost of press and dies, tumbler, media seperator, polish, lube, bench.trimmer, ect,ect.
cost of new ammo (to see if it's cost effective)
how many rounds can the press load an hour
value of your time
enjoyment of your new passtime
resale value of equipment

After you know these things, start the hunt for a good deal.

 

[sevesteen]

My first reloading was .357 with an old Lee Loader, the kind where you use a hammer (literally) to operate it. Worked, slow as hell, and occasionally would set a primer off accidentally. Moved to a Lee hand press, then a Lee turret. The hand press was a mistake, the turret was a good value, and worked well.

I've recently (as in the past few days) got back into reloading with a Lee Pro 1000. Had some problems with priming because the shell carrier wasn't indexing quite right, but now that it is straight, I'm loading decent amounts of pistol ammo. Probably not the very easiest to use, but for $135 complete including dies, shell feeder and auto prime and powder measure it's hard to beat.

If I were to start over with this press, I think I'd do this in stages at first--Decap and prime in one batch, then run the primed brass through again to charge and seat the bullet, removing and replacing dies as needed. The weak spot of this press is the priming system, and problems are compounded because a missed primer will wind up with powder fouling the system. Keep compressed air handy.

 

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

A common sense approach.

Having owned a couple single stages at different times, a couple of progressives Hornady LnL and a 366 and having loaded on just about every progressive that's red or blue and having spent a good bit of time thinking things through with the question: "What would I change were I to do it again with today's equipment?" I've come up with an answer.

If I were to do it again, I'd still buy a single stage again, but I'd get the Lee Classic Cast single stage and install Hornady LnL bushing upgrade on it. I'd get an RCBS or Hornady LnL powder measure to go with it. (They can be used nicely on a progressive later on, regardless of brand.)

Why the single stage? Because they're darned handy for various tasks you don't want to do on a turret or progressive or any press with auto advance, plus you can load ammo on them for stuff you don't want to do anywhere else.

Along with the single stage I'd buy a Lee Classic Turret press with a Safety Prime kit for both size primers and a Lee Pro Auto Disk setup to go with it.

Why? Because it's pretty fast and reasonably simple. A good tool to make some decent production while learning to reload with an auto advance feature press. Along with that, it's affordable. Besides, as inexpensive as these two presses are to buy and setup to load, cost isn't much of a consideration.

Finally, if I either shot a heckuva lot of rounds or competed regularly, I'd look at getting a progressive AFTER I'd learned from the two presses above if reloading was for me. I'd skip the lower end progressives and go with either a Hornady LnL (Excellent press, I have one.) or a Dillon 650 (Excellent press, buddy of mine has one.) or a Dillon 1050 or a Lee Loadmaster (Excellent press, buddy of mine has one.) Note: The other presses previously purchased will still be very handy after purchasing a progressive for high volume rounds and prevent you from buying expensive setups for rounds you don't load much of, say, .303 brit if you're mainly a AR-15 and 1911 shooter.

Why the automatic advance progressives only? Because if you're really needing a ton of rounds, they're the ones that'll get you there. But be aware, before you buy that if you reload that much ammo, you have to have the MONEY to pay for the volume of components you'll be using or you just need the speed because you don't have much time to reload. So the bottom line on buying a progressive is: "You need to load tons or rounds or you have darn little time to spend reloading." If you don't have much time to reload, you may want to think about the safety aspects of doing something that creates an explosive device that is to be set off close to your body. In other words, be willing to commit to spending enough time to do it safely to start or don't do it at all.

That's my take on the progressive vs. single stage debate.

Dave

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

My take is that if you are loading for volume start with a progressive. If you are a bench geek/control freak maybe go single stage.

I started with an Hornady LNL for volume production when in IPSC/ICORE competition and had NO problems. We are talking 1200 to 2000 rounds per month practice and match.

I would not have wanted to spend money on a single stage to produce ammo for competition only to find I really needed a volume machine.

 

[CZ57]

Interesting discussion. I've been reloading for 25 years and have never owned anything but a single stage. I use a REDDING and bought it 8 years ago because of the Top-Dead-Center feature. Does this mean anything to ya'll? I take steps in reloading that many bypass. Even handgun ammo. Primer pockets do get dirty and even if your cases don't stretch, the only way to insure that your cases are getting the same crimp, roll or taper, is to crimp cases that have the same length, so yes, I trim my handgun cases at least once. I have used many LEE products over the years and I'm not a fan, although I still use 2 Autoprimes. Well, that has changed. I agree with many here that have recommended the LEE Classic Turret. First, it will operate as a single stage, so us guys that load for the enjoyment of handloading are not offended! Then, as your proficiency allows, you have the capability to increase production by taking full advantage of auto indexing and semi-progressive loading. I'll be honest, the only way I would ever want a progressive press would be if I used nothing but new cases. Every cartridge I turn out is an attempt at match quality ammo. One thing I noticed about the new LEE classics, is that they evidently believe in Top-Dead-Center as well. If you look at the Ram arms you'll see that they are designed to stop ram travel consistently at the same point of travel. Some people will tell you that OACL variation is inconsequential, but you'll never hear that from me! My handgun ammo has OACL variation of +/- .001". Many presses, especially progressives are nowhere near as accurate. Handloading rifle cartridges, this can also mean variations in pressure and while some are crowding the lands. The way that the LEE Classic Turret has another noteworthy feature that eliminates a potential problem that has kept me from even buying a REDDING Turret press: the turret is not revolving around a spindle, it's stationary and won't give when the case enters a die. Speaking of dies, I'll only buy REDDING Titanium Carbide. They are the very best, but there's a good chance that my REDDING dies could be mounted in a LEE Classic Turret press in the near future!

 

[Loco]

Wow! Now i'am really don't know wich way to go. I've read every post you guys made and now i'am really confused. I've been try to figure out for a week now what type of press to buy. Some say single. Some say turret and some say just go for it and buy a progressive. My big problem is that i need to start reloading for 2 people. My brother got me into shooting pistols for one reason i think. I'am the one in the family that loves to make things. This is by far the most costly sport that i'am in. I have no choice but to start reloading. I really would like to take my time and learn with a single stage but i really need ammo. I sure would like to tackle the progressive press i think i could handle it. But from what i read i guess that's a bad idea. I guess the smart thing to do would be to learn how to make 1 round instead of 500.
Helpppppppppppp

 

[CMcDermott]

Where are you located at? Maybe someone would be willing to demostrate and maybe even do a little teaching on how to reload with the various presses to help you decide.

 

[EddieCoyle]

I really would like to take my time and learn with a single stage but i really need ammo. I sure would like to tackle the progressive press i think i could handle it. But from what i read i guess that's a bad idea. I guess the smart thing to do would be to learn how to make 1 round instead of 500.

If you're "the one in the family that loves to make things", then I'll assume that you're mechanically inclined. If so, and if you're shooting a lot of pistol ammo, then get a progressive. Using a progressive press is not rocket science. You don't have to be a genius; you don't even need average intelligence to use one - I mean look at the grammar, punctuation, and spelling on some of the posts by people that use them. (I'm kidding, I'm kidding).

Sure, you could get a single stage to "learn" on, but after you load your first box of ammo, you will have learned enough to use a progressive press, and you'll wish you'd bought one at the start.