Pro's & Con's Of Shooting .38 Special's In .357 Magnum Cylinder's?

[Ala Dan]

Greeting's All-

First of all, do you do it? The reason I'm inquiring
is because I've read and heard many shooter's that
refrain from the practice of shooting say .38 Special LWC
and L-SWC through the cylinder's of their Smith models 13,
19, 27, 28, 65, 66, 627, and 686. I'm aware of the possible
lead build-up within the cylinder's; but is there any other
viable reason not to do so? My own hard cast rounds that
are loaded into .38 Special target load's is about all that
goes down the tube of my 6" 686-5. And, I'm with my
friend Checkman from his previous post in another
thread as I "dearly love this gun". I would be delighted
to hear some thought's and opinion's regarding this matter.
Many thanks to contributing member's that might have
something to add.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member

 

[JNewell]

I have read many times that, with extended firing, you can flame-etch the cylinder walls forward of the .38 Spec case mouth and wind up with sticky feeding/extraction of the longer .357 Mag cases. I've never seen this in real life, although it makes sense (having seen first hand some pretty extreme examples of flame-cut top straps).

You could get a similar effect probably from powder residue, etc. if you don't clean it carefully, but that's obviously avoidable. The flame-etching of the cylinder wall would not be.

Ya know, on the other hand, I've never seen a .357 Mag chamber, nor a .38 Spec chamber, that I'd judge "rough" or "eroded" or "flame etched" anyway. I'm thinking that if you can do this to a .357 chamber with .38 loads you ought to be able to do it to a .38 chamber, too. Not that it would cause feeding problems, but it should be visible anyway even though it doesn't affect feeding or extraction. So...if I've never seen a cylinder roughed up by firing maybe it's all an old tale...??? Maybe I just don't shoot my guns enough???

So I'm wondering: has anyone shot a revolver enough to see the the cylinder walls get flame-erroded? If a .38 can't do it in a .38 chamber, or a .357 doesn't do it in a .357 chamber, it ought not be a problem for .38s in a .357 chamber, as long as you clean well afterwards?

 

[SnWnMe]

It's probably a fish tale. I shoot about 100 38s a week through my F Comp and I can still chamber 357 no problems. I also do it with my 27 very often. I always clean the guns after each outing for good measure.

38s are my bestust friends

 

[Peter M. Eick]

To me it is the principle of the thing. I do not want to clean the cylinder that hard. I decided to work up 357 mag brass loads for 357 mags. Titegroup seems to work pretty well for nice target loads.

 

[JCM298]

.38's in a .357

I have a few .357's, both Colt, Rugar, and Smith. The 38 year old Python is the only one that had a regular diet of .38's when I had to qualify with it. The .38's were issued because not all of us carried .357's, and the .38's were cheaper.

It was always a pain to clean the cylinder after using the .38's. When I started reloading, I used a lot of .38's but gradually got away from them and now I use .357's, although they are a lightly loaded. Three of my .357's have never had .38's in them and my next gun, a 6" Trooper, will not be used with .38's.

I never kept track of the total number of rounds through the Python, but it was my duty gun for 20 years. A guess would be that it's had a few thousand rounds of .38's through it with no visible problems.

I've heard the same thing about the etching but I've never seen it. I was a range master at a local club for two years and for months I had one shooter claim that his cylinders were "etched" by .38's. Just to keep him quiet, I cleaned the cylinder for him and he realized that the "etching" was simply poor cleaning procedure. It took him a few days to find something else to "whine" about,

John

 

[mec]

I've done it a lot for decades with no long term problems. There is sometimes a build up that needs removal by brushing. The practical consequence is that if you don't clean the special case residue out of the chamber, magnum rounds won't drop all the way in from a speed loader without additional finger seating.

 

[P95Carry]

Hey Ala Dan ''Greetings''

I think this whole deal can be over stretched ..... tho there is of course some credence needed given.

My ole trusty 686 when I had it .. shot 1,000's of lead target loads in compo's .... and not many mag's I admit but .. only thing I find was eventually ... a slight ''glaze'' of lead build up in throats (and forcing cone0 .. and that could happen just same with mag's of course.

My remedy for that was to machine a piece of aircraft grade aluminum rod to exact chamber dim's .... and slightly relieve it's face ... not bored - just rendered a tad concave ... this gave me a ''cutting'' face .... enough to scour lead away .. a Lewis will do it too.

As for any ''cutting'' or severe ''rings'' .. never really a prob ........ sure, the last 1/10" exposed chamber area did get real cruddy but .. it was cleanable .... now and again I used a cordless drill with a slightly oversize bronze brush and gave em a good scrub ...... with no deleterious effects .... just removed the crud.

Ultimately there was ''staining'' ... you could see what I'd been shooting but ...... NO probs chambering and shooting mag loads at all.

I think it can be a bit over played ... and depends too I guess how ''precious'' a particular gun is. My M 27-2 mainly gets mag fodder to digest .. no real need to put .38's thru it but ..... my SP-101 gets almost all .38 spl thru it. So for me .. no real biggie i guess .... as long as cleaning is adequate.

 

[oscar]

I have fired 38's in my magnums for 30 years without a problem. I am not aware of any major cleaning regimen. I just run the same brush thru the cylinder that I use on the barrel. Hey Ala-Dan, all of my revolvers are nickel. Max aka oscar

 

[444]

I almost never shoot .38 Specials in my .357 guns. I have done it however and the only problem I ever had was after firing several hundred cast lead .38s, I had greater than normal difficulty in chambering a .357 round. This was only because the gun was dirty and was not a permenent problem.
For me, and me alone, I have no real reason to shoot .38s in a .357. I handload all of my ammo. So, if I wanted to shoot a .38 load in a .357, I would simply put that load in a .357 case. I never do this however. I shoot .357 loads in my .357s although most of them are at the very bottom of the .357 scale. If I want to shoot something a little less lively, I shoot one of my handguns chambered in .38 Special.
Over the years my interests in shooting change many times; sometimes daily. But one thing that never ceases to bring me tons of enjoyment is shooting the .38 Special. I shoot many thousand a year. And real nice .38 Special handguns are really cheap. I can't get enough of them.

 

[TallPine]

My remedy for that was to machine a piece of aircraft grade aluminum rod to exact chamber dim's .... and slightly relieve it's face ... not bored - just rendered a tad concave ... this gave me a ''cutting'' face .... enough to scour lead away .. a Lewis will do it too.

A 357 case belled just slightly - so that it will still fit in the cylinder but the case mouth will scrape the sides - will accomplish the exact same thing.

Only problem is keeping track of which empty case is your "cleaning case"

 

[Dave Markowitz]

A 357 case belled just slightly - so that it will still fit in the cylinder but the case mouth will scrape the sides - will accomplish the exact same thing.

Only problem is keeping track of which empty case is your "cleaning case"

That's a great idea. Taking it one step further, after you've belled the case, you could drill a hole in the case's head, and add some kind of a handle.

 

[P95Carry]

The belled case works fine for that last 1/10" of chamber - very true. The alumimum rod I mentioned tho was reduced in dia at very end to exact throat dimensions ... that is what I was clearing of slight lead ''glaze'' .....

 

[Standing Wolf]

I load very light .38 special target loads in .357 magnum cases. I've bought a couple Pythons that had been shot extensively with .38 special rounds, and the cylinder bores were a @#$%^&! to clean.

 

[riverdog]

Tallpine,
That's basically what I did when my Mod 28 started holding onto .357 rather than letting them eject. Apparently lead on the sides of a couple cylinder walls soldered the case in place and delayed extraction. I had to wait for the brass to cool and contract and then they could extract. I scraped the sides and then took a bronze bore-brush to the cylinders and that seemed to fix it.

FWIW, I usually shoot a mild .357 handload (jacketed 158 gr at 1100 FPS) for range work instead of using .38 Spl. While warmer than .38 Spl, they work great in K/L-frames and with N-Frames you barely notice the recoil. The lead/powder build-up issue is moot.

One of my Mod 19's however is strictly a range/target pistol and it normally gets .38 Spl target loads. In this case the .357 brass sticking is also moot because it rarely shoots .357 rounds -- no problems when it does. I clean it after each range session and there doesn't seem to be a problem.

 

[HSMITH]

You won't hurt a 357 shooting 38 specials. It isn't going to happen. It makes a mess but that is ALL. Sticky extraction is from dirty chambers and not erosion. Shoot and shoot some more.

Tallpine, if you inside chamfer that case very aggressively you can make a knife sharp edge on it. Bell it out pretty hard after you chamfer, then take and split that case about halfway down so you have two halves that will "spring out" and firmly grip the cylinder walls. You can use it with your fingers or you can put a wood screw in the flash hole and chuck your cordless drill on that using it as a rotating cleaning tool. Makes cleaning the little bit of lead and lot of lube residue pretty simple. Then take your worn out 45 rifle brush you have been using and chuck that up in your cordless drill for cleaning the lead out of the throats.

Don't work too hard at this guys, it just isn't that hard.

I shoot 500 38's to 20 magnums, I don't have any problems at all. I use a TOP load of H110 under a 125 JHP to clean the forcing cone. Two shots and the forcing cone is surgically clean, 6 shots and the face of the cylinder is lead free too. Shoot it clean if you can, then all you need to do is clean off the ash and lube residue and that is all, just a good wipedown and it is done!

 

[tbeb]

I have always fired .38 special LSWC's in .357 magnum revolvers. I clean revolver when I get home from the range. If you do that you ain't going to get a lead build-up in cylinder charge holes.

 

[Jim March]

One rumor is that in an EXTREMELY dirty cylinder that's shot a bunch of 38, if you're stupid enough to chamber hot 357s with no cleaning and it's actually difficult to seat them all the way, then on firing the shell mouth won't want to open and release the round. This causes a pressure spike which can blow the gun up.

Again: it takes REAL stupidity to pull this stunt off "successfully".

 

[BigG]

Greetings Ala Dan! I think it's more about not wanting to put in the time cleaning the weapon fired with shorter ctgs. My dad was a first class mechanic and his observation was more broken stuff was fixed by cleaning it than any other method. Keeping mechanical stuff clean makes it more reliable.

 

[Logistar]

The only thing I have seen personally is that it is more difficult (takes longer) to clean after shooting .38 in the .357 and .357s are difficult to insert after firing very many .38s.

From now on, I will buy a .38 special to shoot .38s and .357s to shoot .357s.

- not that I WON'T shoot .38s in the .357 but not all the time.

Logistar

 

[DennisE]

I've shot many 10s of 1000s of .38 Specials through .357 Magnum S&W K, L and N frames as well as similar quatities of .357 Magnums with 0 problems - of course I do clean my guns! Dennis

 

[Unisaw]

IMO, this is strictly a cleaning issue. Nevertheless, all of my reloads are in .357 brass, regardless of whether I load it hot or not. This practice just avoids the whole issue.

 

[RWK]

Dan,

Merry Christmas to you -- and yours -- my friend.

To answer your question, I have fired tens-of-thousands of .38 Special rounds from my six Ruger and Smith .357 magnum revolvers with NO problems. As you know well, this necessitates post-range cleaning and maintenance, but I routinely do so anyway. Other than cleaning, I cannot conceive of any real issues with .38 Special use. However, I do see two advantages: (1) less cost for ammunition and (2) lighter loads, therefore less stress on the firearm.

Wishing you all the best in 2004 -- Roy

 

[Checkman]

To repeat what others have already said - I just clean my revolvers after I'm done shooting them. Come on guys .38's have been getting shot out of .357 magnums for decades with no ill effects. And while the nice shiny cylinder chambers get a little worn from the 38's - so what? Guns are meant to be shot. I don't buy guns to put under glass. I buy them to shoot. Actually I like going into my room, putting on some music and cleaning the guns. It's actually fairly relaxing.

 

[dfariswheel]

Etching and pitting of cylinders WAS a problem, but only in the days of corrosive ammo.

In the 1900's many revolvers were chambered for a range of .32 and .38 cartridges in a variety of lengths. It was common to shoot shorter cartridges in these, and the corrosive ammo of the day could AND WOULD
erode a shallow ring in the front of the chambers.

If longer ammo was then fired, you could have extraction problems.

Because of the expense, many .22 shooters shot shorts in their firearms, and I've seen a good number of old .22 rifles with rings in the chamber.

A friend of mine has his grandfather's Remington 121 rifle, which can only be fired with shorts because of the ringed chamber preventing extraction of long rifles.

With todays non-corrosive ammo, better steels, and knowledge about the need for good maintenance, the problem has pretty well disappeared.

One of the fastest and easiest cylinder cleaning methods, is to buy some bronze revolver chamber cleaning brushes from Brownell's.
These are stiff, over-sized brushes made specifically for cleaning a chamber.

DO NOT buy the stainless steel brushes. These are for gunsmith use on badly fouled cylinders, and can damage the chambers.

Simply pushing, and twisting the brush through the chambers will clean it of ALL fouling, without damage.

Although a little slower, the Lewis Lead Remover will do the same job.

 

[Lotzinger]

I use one customized 686 for PPC course with very soft .38 LWC-loads since three years now.

I do cylinder-cleaning-jobs on a reg. basis so I do not know about any problems. teammates do it the same way and they have quite the same experience - and still no trouble with it.

My gunsmith gave me a special brush for the cylinders (made of stainless) - it works, and there are no problems with it.

Using .357 ammo would work within a cleaned chamber - DO NOT use .357 directly after shooting a lot of .38's - this might cause problems.