QL prediction for 30-30 in a single shot......

[BUTCHER45]

I am hoping someone would be gracious enough to post some QL predictions for a 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip seated to an OAL of 2.788 in a single shot 30-30, with IMR 3031, Reloader 15, and Winchester 748 powders. I sure would appreciate it!

 

[troy fairweather]

What's the rifle, I'm curious.can't help on ql.

 

[DocRock]

It will need some more info to run QL...but for a barrel between 20 and 24" and maximum published charges, I predict a velocity of 2400 to 2500 fps..

 

[BUTCHER45]

Handi RIfle, 1/12 Twist, 22 inch barrel, Winchester primers (trying those first, anyways).....regular rifle primers for RL15 and 3031, and magnum rifle primers for 748. Winchester (or Federal, I guess) brass.

 

[mdi]

Don't have QL, but when I was reloading pointy bullets in 30-30 for a Handi-Rifle (155 gr. A-Max), I started with Contender data form my Lyman manual...

 

[BUTCHER45]

Don't have QL, but when I was reloading pointy bullets in 30-30 for a Handi-Rifle (155 gr. A-Max), I started with Contender data form my Lyman manual...

I have the 50th Edition in hand.....no Ballistic Tip data in there, though.

 

[watermonger]

Since you didn't specify a pressure I let quickload pick the default one. Does this load touch rifling with the bullet at that OAL?

 

[BUTCHER45]

Thank you, Watermonger!

The QL results I saw someone post before was in a different format, showing a ladder with velocities and pressures every third of a grain or so.

I am green as grass to reloading, and didn't even know to include a pressure in my request. I am simply trying to gather all the info I can, before proceeding with it, and wanted to see the QL results from using this overall length, with this bullet.

The requested OAL (2.788) has the bullet at .030 off the rifling.

 

[watermonger]

Thank you, Watermonger!

I am green as grass to reloading, and didn't even know to include a pressure in my request. I am simply trying to gather all the info I can, before proceeding with it.

That OAL (2.778) has the bullet at .030 off the rifling.

Alright, well if you wan't to know the velocity you will get with a specific load (say 28gr of IMR3031 for example) I'll have to do it tomorrow some time after I wake up, AFAICT QL doesn't take primers into account when calculating velocity/pressure so take this load data with a grain of salt. Also the reason I asked about bullet touching is because QL specifies adding 7200 psi to initiation pressure on top of whatever initiation pressure is for the specific bullet type, and that large jump in start pressure can cause a pretty big increase in maximum chamber pressure, which could get real unsafe real fast.

 

[BUTCHER45]

I just noticed that these results you posted are at a 2.778 OAL, so that would be .040 off the rifling.
I actually requested numbers for a 2.788 OAL.

 

[BUTCHER45]

Nosler gave me a max of 31 grains with that bullet using 3031 at an OAL of 2.550, so things are looking right in the range of what I was hoping for velocity-wise (I guess.....) going by the chart posted so far, even though the OAL is slightly different.

I'm going to have to more properly wrap my head around what you said about initiation pressures tomorrow.....so much of his is chinese to me.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I'm going to have to more properly wrap my head around what you said about initiation pressures tomorrow.....so much of his is chinese to me.

Think of it like pushing something with wheels. If you run over a hump. You have to push much harder initially if you stop against the hump instead of having a rolling start.

 

[BUTCHER45]

I was under the impression that .030 off the lands was a safe place to start, and to work down to .010 if necessary. Is this in fact backwards? These rounds are being developed for hunting, if that makes a difference.

 

[BUTCHER45]

Bfh_auto......I was thinking that .030 gave a good head start, without being too much of a head start....thus being a recommended starting point. What do you think?

 

[BUTCHER45]

I now understand that "the large jump in start pressure" watermonger mentioned, was in reference to bullets touching the lands, and not bullets .030 removed from the lands. So I should be alright at .030, correct?

 

[243winxb]

Handi RIfle

Your over thinking this. Think accuracy , not velocity.

Also note that 30-30 bullets are made just for the cartridge. The 30-30 bullet is designed to expand at 1900 to 2200 fps for hunting.

Your rifle can shoot pointed boatail bullets for target, if you wish.

Hornady does make a 308 160 gr FTX® (30-30 Win) Hornady® FTX® bullets .

 

[BUTCHER45]

Overthinking is my middle name lol.

I'm interested in the velocities more for being able to reference where I should be at in the ladder with a given charge, than for velocities sake alone. For safety, more than anything.

I am hopeful for 2300+ velocities, but I'm not going to push anything to obtain them. I am much more of an accuracy snob.

Ballistic tips are well-known to expand down to 1600fps, so no worries there.

Your over thinking this. Think accuracy , not velocity.

Also note that 30-30 bullets are made just for the cartridge. The 30-30 bullet is designed to expand at 1900 to 2200 fps for hunting.

Your rifle can shoot pointed boatail bullets for target, if you wish.

Hornady does make a 308 160 gr FTX® (30-30 Win) Hornady® FTX® bullets .

 

[DocRock]

Your over thinking this. Think accuracy , not velocity.

Also note that 30-30 bullets are made just for the cartridge. The 30-30 bullet is designed to expand at 1900 to 2200 fps for hunting.

Your rifle can shoot pointed boatail bullets for target, if you wish.

Hornady does make a 308 160 gr FTX® (30-30 Win) Hornady® FTX® bullets .

Excellent advice.


OP- if you want velocity and accuracy, you will be hard pressed to beat the 160 grs FTX seated to canelure over 35 grs Leverevolution. I use that in a Savage 340, Marlin 336 and previously in a Handi Rifle. In both the Handi and the Savage, I have gone above max published loads and seen nigh on 2500 fps, but every time I went above 35 grs LVR, I started to see vertical stringing. I have used this load very successfully on hogs, and would confidently use on whitetail and mule deer out to 150 yards even though I am wary of the FTX in other applications.

As I recall, Handi Rifle 30-30 barrels, certainly the Ilion made ones, had long leades compared to lever guns. And, provided that you have an SB2 receiver and a Handi Rifle barrel, rather than an SB1 and 158 or Topper barrel, I wouldn't worry about pressure with any published loads. The receivers were used with the 270 Win at 65,000 psi.

 

[BUTCHER45]

Excellent advice.


OP- if you want velocity and accuracy, you will be hard pressed to beat the 160 grs FTX seated to canelure over 35 grs Leverevolution. I use that in a Savage 340, Marlin 336 and previously in a Handi Rifle. In both the Handi and the Savage, I have gone above max published loads and seen nigh on 2500 fps, but every time I went above 35 grs LVR, I started to see vertical stringing. I have used this load very successfully on hogs, and would confidently use on whitetail and mule deer out to 150 yards even though I am wary of the FTX in other applications.

As I recall, Handi Rifle 30-30 barrels, certainly the Ilion made ones, had long leades compared to lever guns. And, provided that you have an SB2 receiver and a Handi Rifle barrel, rather than an SB1 and 158 or Topper barrel, I wouldn't worry about pressure with any published loads. The receivers were used with the 270 Win at 65,000 psi.

I need to triple-check, but last I looked this Handi has an maximum OAL of 2.503 in my chamber when using the Hornady 150 grain RN #3035 seated at the rifling.....this design seems to have the ogive further forward than most other 30-30 jacketed bullets. 2.503 is a good bit shy of the 2.54 COAL called for in my load book for standard 30-30 loads. 150 grain ballistic tips are 2.818 COAL when seated at the rifling. Perhaps a long, yet narrow leade?

My barrel is 1:12 twist unlike most 30-30 Handi's, and was made in Gardner, Mass in the early 90's during the short stint of years they were under certain management. As best as I can tell, it has standard-type rifling. It is marked SB2.

I hear the FTX's are a bit more fragile than the Nosler BT's......I have heard more than enough good things about the Nosler BT's out of a Handi (especially the 125 grainer) to want to pursue loading them first (plus Nosler is a relatively local company). I like the higher BC of the Nosler, as well to help flatten the trajectory for precision shots on smaller targets "further out there".

I will probably look into the FTX and compare them to the SST's after I establish hunting loads, when I start looking more towards developing "regular-shooting" loads.

 

[3Crows]

Some fo the columns are out of line in this chart but I have found it to be very much true for the 30-30 Marlin with a 20 inch barrel. Note that backing the Lever Revolution powder charge down from the maximum of 35.5 for the 160FTX bullet to 34.0 grains improves accuracy. Also not the Sierra 170 grain bullet Lever Revolution powder load. I have the same results except slight better with my REP Marlin 336SS going sub MOA by a skosh with the 160FTX at 34.5 grains of LR powder and the Sierra 170 going to a group that averages .7 to .9 inches with the load as given. My JM 336 Texan fares slightly worse pretty much duplicating the results in the chart exactly:

 

[Bfh_auto]

Bfh_auto......I was thinking that .030 gave a good head start, without being too much of a head start....thus being a recommended starting point. What do you think?

It is definitely enough.
I was giving you a reference on why they list a higher start pressure if you're starting in the lands.
I'll be waiting for your results after your load work up. I've just recently become a 30-30 fan.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I need to triple-check, but last I looked this Handi has an maximum OAL of 2.503 in my chamber when using the Hornady 150 grain RN #3035 seated at the rifling.....this design seems to have the ogive further forward than most other 30-30 jacketed bullets. 2.503 is a good bit shy of the 2.54 COAL called for in my load book for standard 30-30 loads. 150 grain ballistic tips are 2.818 COAL when seated at the rifling. Perhaps a long, yet narrow leade?

My barrel is 1:12 twist unlike most 30-30 Handi's, and was made in Gardner, Mass in the early 90's during the short stint of years they were under certain management. As best as I can tell, it has standard-type rifling. It is marked SB2.

I hear the FTX's are a bit more fragile than the Nosler BT's......I have heard more than enough good things about the Nosler BT's out of a Handi (especially the 125 grainer) to want to pursue loading them first (plus Nosler is a relatively local company). I like the higher BC of the Nosler, as well to help flatten the trajectory for precision shots on smaller targets "further out there".

I will probably look into the FTX and compare them to the SST's after I establish hunting loads, when I start looking more towards developing "regular-shooting" loads.

You might look into the 135 Sierra varminter. It was designed to be a medium game bullet at 30-30 velocity and under.
My wife will be using them on deer this fall.

 

[watermonger]

Alright so I finally got to my computer, here is the 150 gr Bosler BalTip loaded to an oal of 2.788 (not 2.778 like I did last night, sorry was pretty tired by then and I seemed to have misread it).

If you have any more load data you wan't me to run, I'll probably be on for the next couple of hours or so.

 

[BUTCHER45]

If you are referring to the Sierra 125 grain HPFP, I think that may be the bullet Federal uses in their 125grain loading, which my gun shoots itty-bitty groups with. They have an excellent reputation on deer from all I have heard. Unfortunately, the closest to carry those is a town-over. I'll pick some up to play with next time I am over there, but for my first hunting load I am sticking to components that are regularly available in town.

You might look into the 135 Sierra varminter. It was designed to be a medium game bullet at 30-30 velocity and under.
My wife will be using them on deer this fall.

You might look into the 135 Sierra varminter. It was designed to be a medium game bullet at 30-30 velocity and under.
My wife will be using them on deer this fall.

 

[BUTCHER45]

Thanks again, Watermonger!

This is all great information, and I found the format you posted last night with all the different powders to be very interesting, as well.

The following info that was posted elsewhere in internet land is what prompted me post my OP.....does this format look familiar? This one is for the Nosler 125 grain boolit (another one I wouldn't mind seeing run.....at anywhere from 2.73-2.74 OAL, with the same powders). This info looks like the stuff to reference when working up a ladder, so as to see if the pressure is getting where it shouldn't be.

"Here is what QL did with your info, once again this is JUST AN EDUCATED GUESS. So be carefull work up
Cartridge : .30-30 Win. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 125, Nosler BalTip 30125
Useable Case Capaci: 35.860 grain H2O = 2.328 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.650 inch = 67.31 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : IMR 3031

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 2.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20.0 80 24.80 1891 993 18259 3996 78.5 1.601
-18.0 82 25.42 1938 1042 19322 4154 80.0 1.563
-16.0 84 26.04 1985 1094 20448 4311 81.6 1.526
-14.0 86 26.66 2033 1147 21644 4466 83.1 1.490
-12.0 88 27.28 2081 1202 22915 4619 84.5 1.454
-10.0 90 27.90 2129 1258 24266 4768 86.0 1.420
-08.0 92 28.52 2178 1316 25704 4915 87.3 1.386
-06.0 94 29.14 2227 1376 27233 5057 88.6 1.353
-04.0 96 29.76 2276 1438 28861 5195 89.9 1.320
-02.0 98 30.38 2325 1500 30596 5328 91.1 1.289
+00.0 100 31.00 2374 1565 32445 5455 92.2 1.258
+02.0 102 31.62 2424 1631 34418 5575 93.2 1.227
+04.0 104 32.24 2473 1698 36524 5690 94.2 1.198 ! Near Maximum !
+06.0 106 32.86 2523 1766 38774 5797 95.1 1.167 ! Near Maximum !
+08.0 108 33.48 2572 1836 41181 5896 96.0 1.136 ! Near Maximum !
+10.0 110 34.10 2622 1908 43758 5988 96.8 1.106 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 100 31.00 2533 1781 39155 5597 98.2 1.162 ! Near Maximum !
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 100 31.00 2179 1318 26642 4980 81.9 1.370".