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question: firearm transfer and residency

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TJ42

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Sep 25, 2006
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As I understand it, two people who reside in the same State may privately transfer a gun from one person to another (assuming both are legally eligible to possess a gun) without FFL involvement. I am interested to learn if anyone has any experience or insight to this specific scenario:

Two people want to transfer ownership of several guns as gift from family member A to family member B, but family members reside in different States, so typically FFL is required.

However, coincidentally, family member A will be driving to and renting an apartment in family member B's home State for 1 month sometime in the future. This would seem to be establishing a home in that State for that period of time (if you assume home does not necessarily have to mean ownership). Family member A will have his own address with the intention of making a home there during that time, with dedicated phone line, etc., and will not just be visiting the residence of family member B or staying in a hotel. There will be a lease and an apartment for 1 month.

The ATF says "B11) What constitutes residency in a State? The State of residence is the State in which an individual is present; the individual also must have an intention of making a home in that State."

and

"(B12) May a person (who is not an alien) who resides in one State and owns property in another State purchase a handgun in either State? If a person maintains a home in 2 States and resides in both States for certain periods of the year, he or she may, during the period of time the person actually resides in a particular State, purchase a handgun in that State."

There is no mention of a legal minimum stay for USA residents in another state on the ATF site that I could find, although for noresident aliens of the USA, there is a 90 day stay required. Although ownership of property is mentioned in one state, it does not seem to be explicitly stated that property must be owned in both states, and anyway, many people make their homes in domiciles they do not own.

Of course, the family members could just trot down to the gun store or pawn shop and pay $25-30 per gun to an FFL holder, but if the rental property would satisfy residency and make a private transfer legal, then why bother? The gun shop may be the safest thing to do to be absolutely safe and legal, but you get the point here...just wondering if anyone has any experience with something like this? Thank you.
 
Too may variables--different states have different laws, and different jurisdictions may interpet the same law differently (right or wrong, that's the way it is).

All in all, sounds like a bad idea, designed to tiptoe down the legal line.

If one of the states in question is IL/CA (and probably others) then it sounds like a doubly bad idea.

To be honest, soliciting legal advice on an Internet BB is probably an even worse idea....
 
State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. An alien who is legally in the United States shall be considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in the State and has resided in the State for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm. The following are examples that illustrate this definition:

Example 1. A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.

Example 2. A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

Example 3. A, an alien, travels on vacation or on a business trip to State X. Regardless of the length of time A spends in State X, A does not have a State of residence in State X. This is because A does not have a home in State X at which he has resided for at least 90 days.

27 CFR 478.11
A one month stay sounds a lot like a vacation or a business trip to me. I would spend a few dollars on an FFL in this situation. You could always ask BATFE for an opinion in writing...
 
Thanks, I was wondering the answer to this very question myself.

Idea is this:

- Rifle was gifted in state A to a visiting family member from state B
- visiting family member intends to ship the rifle from state A to state B, not via FFL but directly to his abode

Legal, yes?
 
In general, the laws identify your state of residence as the state in which you vote. I am not a lawyer, so take that as you will.
In my view the one month rental would be easy to shoot down as establishing a residence if a prosecutor wanted to do so.

One thing I am sure of, is that it is not worth the risk to save a few bucks dealing through a FFL.

Regards,
Jerry
 
Rifle, Maybe (A lot would depend on both States laws.)
Handgun, No. Only if received as a bequeathment in a will or by intestate succession from probate.
 
- Rifle was gifted in state A to a visiting family member from state B
- visiting family member intends to ship the rifle from state A to state B, not via FFL but directly to his abode
Person in state A wants to give a rifle to a person in state B? I can think of a few ways to do this:
1) Both persons meet with an FFL in state A and do the transfer there.
2) Both persons meet with an FFL in state B and do the transfer there.
3) Person in state A sends the rifle to an FFL in state B.
 
BATFE FAQs on Firearms

You know, our Tax dollars fund an agency whose purpose is to Enforce Firearms Laws. They might know something about this.

Oh, yeah, they do!

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/index.htm

The BATFE has a pretty good list of FAQs that answer almost any question you can have (at least as regards the Federal Law) regarding Firearm Transfers.

We paid for this stuff, let's use it.

Futuristic
 
Like anything from the ATF, that FAQ is vague and potentially contradicting - or, at least, intentionally confusing. I couldn't find an answer to my question. How lovely.
 
- Rifle was gifted in state A to a visiting family member from state B
- visiting family member intends to ship the rifle from state A to state B, not via FFL but directly to his abode

Legal, yes?
____________________

I vote a big NO. You can't transfer ownership to a visiting out-of-stater simply by handing it over (unless it's a bequest in a will). If you can't legally transfer ownership then the visitor can't ship/mail it to himself in his home state because he doesn't legally own it.

John
 
I voting with JohnBT. No.

Two legal ways to handle it. 1: Use a FFL in state A, and the giftee can take it home with the luggage. 2: Use a FFL in state B and the giver can ship it to that FFL.

I'm not sure if it's legal to use a FFL in state A, then the giftee ships it to his home in state B via UPS or US Mail some other carrier. Can you ship a gun you own to yourself across state lines?
 
BATFE FAQ is Clear on This

originally posted by Caimlas:
Idea is this:

- Rifle was gifted in state A to a visiting family member from state B
- visiting family member intends to ship the rifle from state A to state B, not via FFL but directly to his abode

Legal, yes?

NO. See BATFE Firearms FAQ, B1, B2, and B3 for why State A resident cannot transfer a Rifle directly (sans FFL) to a State B resident, no matter if the State B resident has traveled to State A. It is very clear, with no ambiguity.

(Note: The OP of this thread raised the possibility of TEMPORARILY CHANGING the State Of Residence. This is a different question, and would be open to interpretation, though I still wouldn't recommend it.)

As to the second part, if you managed the first part Legally (i.e. using an FFL in State A to transfer the Rifle to the State B resident), then the State B resident is free (under Federal Law, check applicable State Laws) to ship the Rifle back to his home with it addressed to himself, with the proviso that anyone who lives with him should be informed that they are NOT to open the package. This is covered in FAQ B9.

Futuristic
 
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