Question on metering Unique

[IDriveB5]

Powder Measure: Lee Pro Auto-Disk
Scale: RCBS 5-0-5

I started out loading 231 for .38SPL and .357MAG and really liked they way it metered, being a ball powder. I wanted to start working up some warmer loads for .357MAG, so I decided a slower powder would be in order, so I bought some Unique. Knowing that it is a flake powder, it wouldnt meter as well for the lighter loads. Planning to load 6.5gr, the Lee chart refered me to the .71 disk. I set this up and ran about 20 charges through the disk and then measured one. weighed in at 5.5gr. After doing this some more I moved up to the .82 volume and after running some powder through it, got a charge of 6.6gr. Lee chart states that the .82 volume should measure 7.5gr Unique.
For those of you that load this caliber using my set-up, is this congruent with your findings?

 

[treebeard]

I am not sure what chart you are using, perhaps the one that came with the Lee powder dispenser? If so, it is not accurate at all. Believe me it is off. I have used Unique, Titegroup, W231, and Universal and each one is different. I just bought an RCBS electronic scale to get more accurate weights too. I have never had the chart be off a full grain, but it has been off from .5-.8 grains. I measure every 5th load, but also make sure that the powder thru expander die is not getting clogged up like mine was awhile ago. I do alot of .38Spl and .357Mag loads too.

 

[moxie]

Make sure your scale is calibrated and trust it. I'd call

Lee and discuss the situation with them.

 

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

The charts just get you in the ball park, as powders differ dispensing wise from powder to powder. Nobody much mentions it, but I noticed, because I record, that I have to use different settings on my micrometer stem for different powders with the same weight.

Don't sweat it, just tweak your plates to get close to your desired weight. If you're still not satisfied, buy the micrometer adjustment and use it to bring it to the exact weight you want.

Regards,

Dave

 

[The Bushmaster]

Humidity and barimeteric pressure effect the Lee Auto disk. I've been using one for the last 15 years and have noted this in a little book as I suspected this about 10 years ago and that's what I found. I have a feeling that all the powder measures have the same problem with the weather...Actually it's the powder that has the problem...I've also noticed this on my scales, both my RCBS 5-0-5 and my electronic scale. Ya jist hafta work wit' it...

 

[Branspop]

On most powders I end up having to go one cavity higher than the lee chart. That is why it is critical to use your scale to verify charge weights. Too much over or under charge weight and you could be in for some serious trouble.

 

[The Bushmaster]

I normally stay with the charted cavity and trickle up...

 

[wolfe28]

If you really want warm loads for 357 Mag...

Save the unique for your pistols and start using Lil-Gun in your 357 Mag.

A friend of mine (who is heading off to the last part of Marine Corps OCS in the latter half of January; this has berring on the story later) and I went down to the range a few days ago. One of the things I took with me was my TC Contender with a 10" 357 Mag barrel on it. I had made up the first round of loads for development in this gun, and I was anxious to try them out. Max load data for 357 and Lil-Gun, per Hodgdon load data is 18.0 grains for a 158 grain projectile (conviently enough, developed in a 10" 357 contender). I started at 16.0 grains and work up to 17.6 grains in 0.4 grain increments; capping off each round with a Hornady 158 grain XTP.

When I started testing these loads, I was shocked to 'see' how much punch I felt in my hands each time I touched one of these rounds off. I'm not a wimp by any stretch of the word, but I really knew I was shooting something when I pulled the trigger. My friend, who is definitely no wimp either (see above explination), looked over and stated that what I was doing didn't look like it was all that comfortable. Mind you, my contender has the shock-absorbing grip on it. After I had put 5 rounds in to each of my load development targets (smallest group was at 16.8 grains of Lil-gun, sub 2" 5-shot group, with one flier, no overpressure signs on any loading), I handed off my contender to my friend so he could try it.

As is our usual, once one of us has done all that we 'need' to do with a particular firearm (sight one in, new hand loads, etc), my guns are his and visa-versa. When I asked him if he wanted to try out the 357, his response was "no, yes, but no". After touching off the lowest of my hand loads, the first word out of his mouth was "ouch". Not wanting to leave anything to chance (I guess), he then grabbed for the high end of the hand loads. Again, following the trigger pull, the bang was followed by an 'ouch'.

With all of the factory ammo I have put through that firearm, with any grip, I have never had a sore hand when I put it down. After running through a few sub max hand loads, my hand needed a break. I have had a lot of luck with Lil-Gun in my 22 Hornet, and now it is becoming my favorite powder for 357 that pack a real punch (you should have seen what they did to the TV we took to the range).

D

 

[IDriveB5]

Thanks for the responses, this was pretty much my feeling. Will check on the powder-thru die. In my experience, 231 is always right on with the chart. Does Unique tend to settle as you load?

Does anyone have any experience with A#5? Was thinking of using it for 45ACP. What type of powder is it?

Edit to add:
Not interested in getting too hot and crazy. Just something a little warmer than the plinkers I've been making with 231

 

[benedict1]

Forget the chart--most flake powders can vary widely in density--Lee suggests up to 16%. My last lot of Unique was 19% off from their charts. They warn about this in the fine print.

It doesn't make any difference what cavity you finally have to use to get the weight you want. You must try a cavity and weigh several charges under actual loading conditions to get the weight you want. Actual loading conditions are important so you cause the usual vibrations to the powder measure.

With Unique, or any flake powders, but especially Unique, lot # and humidity will make a difference. Also, any attempt to throw consistent charges under 4 gr is usually not going to work--you can expect +-0.2 gr variation. The flakes tend to clump, bridge and not flow smoothly in smaller volume cavities.

Ball powders are much closer to the Lee charge numbers. But, you should always, always weigh any charges you throw for accuracy and safety, with any new lot of powder or change of powder.

 

[treebeard]

I believe Walkalong uses AA#5, maybe he can offer up some of his loads. You can go here:http://handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=45 ACP&Source=&Type=Handgun
and then type in your bullet weight to see what other people are using. I also have a long Excel spreadsheet given to me by Walkalong that is really great. It has some of the most useful data I have ever seen. If you want it just e-mail me or PM me and I will send it to you.

 

[dakotasin]

as a follow up to wolfe's post... i decided i wanted to get my 357 revolver in shape for a possible deer hunt. after many different combinations of powders and bullets, much chronograph time, and lots of research on deer-capable bullets, i settled on 2400 and hard cast bullets. my loads are certainly nuclear level, but i feel confident w/ them as a deer-killer, and the loads most definitely turned the mild-mannered plinker-357 into a serious hunt-capable weapon (note the post-shot 'ouch' comments above - the 357 can certainly unleash a flurry of whoop-ass when it is loaded to potential)...

 

[gandog56]

Make sure your scale is calibrated and trust it. I'd call Lee and discuss the situation with them.

I have found that most of the charges (If not all of them) are really light using the Lee charge tables. For instance i was tring to get a charge of 8.3 grains of Unique. By using my scale instead of the charge tables I found that when the dispensor was giving me my required charge, the Lee tables said that the bushing I was using should be dispensing 9.3 grains. I weighed them on both a balance beam and digital scales, and they agreed. Also I found that Unique rarely would throw a consistant charge, and that I really had to measure each charge for precision. I just don't think Lee Auto Disks like flake powders, but do a wonderful job with ball powders.

 

[IDriveB5]

Gandog, this is my exact experience. Ive had to shake the measure a little each time to get the right weight. Which ball powders do you use?

 

[The Bushmaster]

Just curious...But has anybody read the instruction sheet that comes with the Lee Auto Disk? It says that it may be necessary to tap the dispencer a couple of times with your finger when despencing flake powders. Have we tried that yet to see if it works? Like I said...Just curious...

 

[benedict1]

Pro Auto Disk + Unique--

As the previous post suggests, reading the directions can clear up some of the mystery of flake powders.

I use 4.7 gr of Unique in 9mm with 125 gr plated bullet. I have loaded several thousand of these with a Load Master and a Lee Classic Cast Turret press, both equipped with the Lee Pro Auto Disk. I get nearly zero variation in powder drop, hardly +-0.05 gr. I have measured this with Lee Safety Scale and a Frankford Arsenal digital scale, both calibrated with Lyman test weights.....

If you have problems with Unique I suspect static electricity to be a possible culprit. You may have to take everything apart and wash it good with detergent and warm water, rinse completely and let air dry. Also, rubbing all the parts down with a clothes dryer fabric softener sheet helps.

Finally, in some few cases, the nylon bushing at the bottom of the powder measure may be damaged and powder hangs up in it.

Also, some few users inadvertently mount the powder hopper backwards and the auto disk cavity does not intercept the drop tube fully leading to short charges. If you are consistently short, check this.

 

[IDriveB5]

The only thing I read about flake powders was using volumes lower than .41. Was thinking about the static issue- certainly possible with the low humidity of winter...