Question - Walther G22: Trigger mechanism issues

[Esoteria]

Hi all, new to these forums and new to gun ownership in general.

I bought a Walther G22 rifle about four months ago and have had several minor problems with it up to this point. It's a bullpup styled rifle which may or may not significantly change the autoloading mechanics and whatnot that will be pertinent to answering my question here.

The first problem I had with it was that one out of three rounds would "catch" in the ejection port because the bolt would come forward too quickly on loading and would wedge the spent casing in the ejection port. This turned out to be mostly due to the high velocity ammo I was using. According to one source, the bolt was bouncing off the back when the springs maxed out and it came forward too quickly because of this. Well, I switched to Federal instead of Remington high-velocity hollow point and the problem is pretty much gone now. Small victory. =D

The second problem, and the one that's a little more serious and has been getting worse over time is that after using the rifle to shoot off say 40 rounds, it would quite literally stop firing. When I would pull the trigger, there would be a small click, but the hammer never went forward.

The first thing I thought might be the problem was the thin metal bar connecting the trigger to the rest of the gun. The finger trigger connects to a "real" trigger on the magazine/action assembly. This bar is about five inches long and has a bend about halfway through (which is supposed to be there as far as I can tell). Anyway you pull the trigger, this bar moves back and pushes the real trigger in, and if the magazine is in and the hammer is back, the hammer (supposedly) goes forward.

Well, once I fired about 40 rounds I could pull the trigger maybe 8 or 9 times before the hammer actually went forward and the gun fired.

Unfortunately, although I've cleaned the gun about four times now, I still don't know that much about it in general, as I've never taken it apart more than the parts that obviously should be cleaned.

When I have the thing taken apart, by the way, I can put a magazine in and pull the "real" trigger back fully (so I found out this way that the problem is *not* that little metal bar). The hammer still doesn't go forward even though I can definitely say that I'm pulling the "real" trigger all the way back.

Any ideas? Sorry for the long post, just trying to give enough information since I know it's not a normal gun to have. The mechanisms may actually be more like an autoloading rimfire pistol than a rifle.

I can take and submit pictures if someone would like to see them.

Thanks,
Eso

PS- while I'm asking questions, the coating on the barrel where it is first exposed to air (about three inches down the barrel from where the cartridge starts) seems to be damaged and some spotty rust is appearing there. Each time I clean it I use the cleaner and oil on the exposed portions of the barrel. Should I not be doing this? I figured the oil would help prevent the rust, but maybe I need something else?

 

[Medusa]

1. Ammo issue. G22 doesn't like HV ammo. It should work best with ~390 m/s (1280 fps) velocity ammo, go higher and it start's to slam the bolt too hard. BUt you figured it out.

2. Trigger stuff. Small remark - one guy had a new trigger bar made, couple of mm-s thicker and 3 mm longer, said it made the trigger pull better. But it sounds like the hammer isn't released when pulling the trigger, maybe because of gunk in there. Especially as you said, it does fall after several tries. If you take it apart for cleaning you don't get to the hammer very easily. If you can you could try to look in, just to see if there's some unwanted stuff in.

3. I can't see anything wrong with lightly oiling the barrel to prevent rust.

Sorry, I'm no gunsmith, I'm only guestimating.

 

[Esoteria]

Thanks for the reply. You're probably right about there being something holding the hammer back. if viewing the magazine/trigger/hammer assembly upright (as though firing) then when you pull back the trigger the entire metal piece moves back to the limit. If I'm looking in the magazine bay while pulling the "real" trigger, I can see this same piece of metal "maxing out" its movement as it hits the other side of the slot in the magazine bay intended for it.

I know that's a horrible description but it'd make sense if someone happened to have a G22 cracked open on their computer desk next to their keyboard while reading this. (hah...)

Anyway tomorrow I'll see if I can get in there but I'm sure I'll void my warranty or something if I dismantle the assembly in question any further than it is.

The sad thing is that the "gunk" you suggested could be in there is very likely because of all that casing-catching I did trying to fire HV ammo. You should've seen the inside of that thing after firing literally two hundred plus rounds when at least 70 of them caught or misfired. It was like a 2-year-old after their first day on the beach.

Thanks again for the reply,
If anyone else has ideas, let me know. I'll give it another go-over tomorrow and post the results.

Edit: Oh yeah, regarding the new trigger bar, that might be worth looking into. The trigger is a bit "soft." Well, first things first. Also, about the barrel, is rust normal this early on? I left it in a cold car trunk a few days, but that aside it's been extremely well taken care of. I guess I'm a little surprised that the finish isn't all that durable... or maybe I just fired it too hot. First gun, so I don't know these things yet.

 

[Medusa]

Barrel could have been scratched, or has bad finish, since mine is pretty good and spotless.

HAmmer thing. IF you can't clean it (you could try cotton sticks) without opening up the whole action, better send it to real gunsmith (preferably Walther certified) to take a look WTH is going on, especially if you'd like to keep teh warranty.

ADDED: You could strip the rifle for cleaning and try to hold the hammer back. When pulling the rear trigger does the metal "tongue" move and clear the hammer for moving? thus it could be narrowed down to be a problem of either the hammer release bar or the the hammer itself has trouble moving.

 

[Esoteria]

Okay, I played with it some more *without* cleaning it (intentionally didn't clean it so hopefully I can diagnose the problem in case it is fixed but happens again).

Regard the metal "tongue," I see the mechanism that seems to be what you're talking about, but to be honest I don't fully understand its function. It doesn't seem to move much or at all when I pull the trigger (I saw it move slightly on occasion).

I tried holding the hammer down beyond its "locking" point. Pulling the trigger very hard a few times allowed it to move forward. After a few trials of this I locked the hammer back normally, turned the assembly on its side (magazine release and trigger downward) and pushed the whole assembly onto some newspaper, effectively pulling the trigger harder than I could while holding the whole thing. Doing this released the hammer consistently. So the problem seems to be resistance against the actual trigger pull. But this is somewhat confusing because while doing this I couldn't "max out" the trigger as I previously described. When I *did* get it past about the half-pull point (I say half-pull based on the metal part's position within the magazine bay. The metal groove allows for a given amount of movement of the metal piece connecting to the trigger bar, and this is the amount of movement by which I define half-pull) the hammer went forward normally.

I'm not sure if this helps any. What I need next, I guess, is to understand the purpose of the metal tongue and see if your suggestion on diagnosing the problem will work out based on any new tests I can do after that point.

Thanks a lot for your continued help.

New Developments:
You learn something new every day. There are two metal levers on the outside of either side of the magazine bay. The larger, flatter one I understood the first time I cleaned the gun. Or so I thought. Now I'm not sure what the flatter one's purpose is. Previously I didn't know what the thinner one was for, but in fact it keeps that metal tongue from moving unless a magazine is loaded. "Pretty simple," I thought, but I still don't know the purpose of the tongue. The other lever I originally thought kept the hammer back unless there was a magazine loaded. Well, now I'm not so sure.

Anyway, the point is that once I have a magazine loaded and the attached (smaller, thinner) lever is up, the trigger works almost normally. It's easier to pull (though still very hard to do by hand), and the hammer goes forward normally. Could this mean that my problem with failed trigger pulls is actually due to that thin lever not going up when a magazine is loaded? Hmm...

Edit 2:
Never mind about explaining the flat lever. I just realized it keeps the bolt back when there's an empty magazine. The mag follower pushes it up. I had originally thought that the bolt stayed back because of the black piece in the magazine which is below the lowest bullet. But of course now that I think about it that would be a pretty flimsy piece of plastic when compared to the force of the bolt springs, so that couldn't have been it anyway. Hindsight's 20/20
The tongue is still a mystery, but may be irrelevant. I need to look into whether it's possible for the magazine to be loaded but that thin lever not to be up. Doesn't initially seem to be possible.

 

[RecoilRob]

I believe that you will find your problem in the mag disconnect mechanism. If you pull the trigger without the mag in, it pulls real hard and, of course, won't drop the hammer.

My trigger felt kind of hard and spongy even with the mag in.....so I disconnected the mag safety. Cut a piece of ziptie to fit the recess and hold the lever up. Never liked mag safeties on any firearm so it was just another one removed in the safe.

Trigger pull improved markedly and mine has been trouble free. Fires easily every time.

If you don't want to remove it, you might make sure nothing is blocking the movement and that the mags are pushing it up all the way. Might be able to bend it a bit to help the mag lift it too.

 

[Gun-Ther]

Check your trigger bar

to make sure you don't have it in backwards. Just a guess on my part.

 

[Yeemix]

I recently picked up my G22 also, and mine wouldn't even fire when pulling the trigger. Nothing, no hammer drop, just silence everytime I fired. At first, I too thought it was the metal bar that connects the triggers, so I just stripped the rifle and cleaned it again. Now, when I dry fire, it finally makes a noise, so next range trip, I will try again. This rifle is starting to be a PITA, and my first regretable purchase. Maybe when I finally get to try it out, my feelings will change.

 

[Esoteria]

Thanks for all your insight. It's good to know I'm not the only one with this issue.

I think I'll take the advice of two people here: The first thing I'm going to do is find some way to keep the magazine safety lever upward. I may not leave it there, but I'll see if it helps. It does seem like that lever is a bit small and could be easily malfunctioning when there is a magazine loaded.

The second thing I'll do is get a slightly wider and longer trigger bar. I don't like the softness of the trigger pull as it stands, so I'll give another bar a shot and see how it goes. Any suggestions on material? I have a brother who will probably be more than happy to try to fashion it, but if there's a particular type or grade of metal I should be using for this purpose, let me know.

 

[Medusa]

Main thing is with the trigger bar that it's thin and wobbles a bit (bends while pulling), thus giving a little soft feeling.

IMHO ordinary tool-grade steel (like screwdriver's) should work fine - that's not too elastic, yet not too brittle; design sees that the bar is not straight, so there are some lateral forces flexing it, main idea is to get these flexes as minimal, ie not seen, as possible. That's why the thickness increase helps, dividing the tension over larger cross section.

IIRC the new trigger bar I wrote about was thickest in the middle, ends ("pins" that go to holes) must be the same size with the original. This is for crispiness.

Length of bar. If you make it a bit longer, the trigger travel is that much shorter. Together they should remove the softness and unconsistency. If your brother doesn't mind, you could give a try to few different lengths&material to see which is the best.

IMHO the mag safety is one of most pointless things on this rifle (alongside with the trigger lock), I try to either block it, or make it inoperable (ie remove the offending part, or at least cut away those notches it needs to "work properly").

 

[maksim]

just bought a G22. First time out it was fine... after cleaning it... took it out today. half the time it wouldnt even click.

does the direction of the bar connecting the trigger matter? or what is it that is the issue?

It seems like the tightness of the case towards the back makes a difference as after cleaning it and putting it back together, if you overtighten it, the mag would not even go in.

could the mag safety be the issue?

any pictures or specifics about how to bypass it.

thanks.

 

[OcelotZ3]

One thing I've seen done in the past is you can fold up some cardboard and put it between the trigger bar & barrel (I think it's the barrel). This keeps the bar straighter and supposedly helps the trigger pull quite a bit.

I bought a G22 back in 2006 and it has been great as long as I don't use Remington ammo in it. At a work group outing, it was by far the most popular firearm to shoot.

 

[maksim]

I saw the cardboard thing...

I havent taken it down since I shot it yesterday, just exhausted, but will tomorrow. my questions are...

1. The trigger bar, what is the proper way it should be? shorter end where? bend up? or what.

2. Mag safety disconnect?