questions about spears

[SkaerE]

I like the idea of the spear, not for any particular "practical" use around the house or anything but lately I've wanted one for some reason... happens from time to time.

Anyhow, it seems to me there have been 3 major ways to attach a head of a spear to the shaft throughout history.

1.) take staff/tree/sapling and slit end, insert head and lash to staff

2.) create spear head that has a long "tang" and insert into hole bored in the end of shaft

3.) insert shaft into socket that is forged/cast into spear head.

I'm thinkin' about making one, couple, whatever for fits and grins and have been tossing the pros and cons of each type. seems 1 and 2 would have higher chances of breaking the staff since you have weakened it by splitting or boring. The third method I cant think of a good way to make since I don't currently have access (or the knowhow) to forge a socket.

Before anyone brings it up, I don't want to buy a pre-made head from any of the museum replica websites. And I think the cold steel spears, while utilitarian, are ugly since they are stamped and you the socket is not a "true socket" (ie, you can see the end of the shaft if you turn the blade around)

I guess my question would be, has anyone made a spear/bought/used one made from methods 1 or 2 and how has it worked? Suggestions to help strengthen the end. I was thinking of wrapping the end in a rope/fabric that has been soaked in fiberglass resin (kinda like a high tech sinew).

Thanks!

 

[hso]

Sockets are all forged by flattening and then forging the flat around a mandrel to form the socket. There's little reason to close the gap and weld the seam.

There have been a couple of members who have done this and posted on it.

 

[SkaerE]

just found this... good info if you want to forge one.

http://netsword.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000106.html

 

[Axel Larson]

MY brother is a blacksmith I will check with him and post again if I can find this thread again.

 

[Fred Fuller]

Actually there was one more historic - or technically prehistoric - way to fit a stone or bone spear point to its shaft. That was the separate short shaft usually referred to as a foreshaft, to which the point was attached. The foreshaft was then fitted temporarily to a spear shaft or atlatl dart shaft.

Theories for explaining this development in spear/dart construction vary. Perhaps this construction was more durable and less damage prone than a point hafted directly to the main spear or dart shaft. Perhaps it allowed for easier replacement of a damaged point. Perhaps it was intended to allow the point and foreshaft to separate after impact with an animal, leaving the foreshaft and point inside to continue damaging tissue as the animal fled while allowing blood to drain from the wound unimpeded by the now detached main shaft.

As with so many things from the past, there is evidence but few certainties...

lpl
===

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/natsci/vertpaleo/aucilla10_1/atlatl.htm

http://nehawkaprimitiveskills.blogspot.com/2008/11/foreshaft-technology.html

http://ele.net/antler/foreshaft.htm

http://www.nebraskastudies.org/0200...braskastudies.org/0200/stories/0201_0111.html

http://lithiccastinglab.com/gallery-pages/2004aprilkimberleypointspage2.htm

etc

 

[SkaerE]

that is very cool. i seem to remember something similar used as a harpoon at one point (except the tip was tethered to the shaft and probably more easily detachable)

thanks for the links!

 

[Remo223]

Actually there was one more historic - or technically prehistoric - way to fit a stone or bone spear point to its shaft. That was the separate short shaft usually referred to as a foreshaft, to which the point was attached. The foreshaft was then fitted temporarily to a spear shaft or atlatl dart shaft.

Theories for explaining this development in spear/dart construction vary. Perhaps this construction was more durable and less damage prone than a point hafted directly to the main spear or dart shaft. Perhaps it allowed for easier replacement of a damaged point. Perhaps it was intended to allow the point and foreshaft to separate after impact with an animal, leaving the foreshaft and point inside to continue damaging tissue as the animal fled while allowing blood to drain from the wound unimpeded by the now detached main shaft.

As with so many things from the past, there is evidence but few certainties...

lpl
===

http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/natsci/vertpaleo/aucilla10_1/atlatl.htm

http://nehawkaprimitiveskills.blogspot.com/2008/11/foreshaft-technology.html

http://ele.net/antler/foreshaft.htm

http://www.nebraskastudies.org/0200...braskastudies.org/0200/stories/0201_0111.html

http://lithiccastinglab.com/gallery-pages/2004aprilkimberleypointspage2.htm

etc

Seems rather obvious to me.

Making a long straight shaft of the correct uniform diameter sounds like a lot of work to me. The weak point would be the attachment where you must split the tip into a fork to fit the spear head.

eventually, your shaft will break at the attachment point.

The solution? design it with a disposable section just behind the spearpoint. When it breaks, you only lose the disposable section which is much easier to fabricate.

 

[heron]

Disposable points made the shaft "reloadable" -- you'd go out on the hunt with multiples. Charge in and plant one in the critter and duck away and fit another.

I saw that on some TV show.

 

[Remo223]

I dunno about intentionally leaving points in an animal. That sounds wasteful. But carrying one or two extra tips just in case one was inadvertently left in an animal sounds logical.

 

[Geckgo]

You could forge #3 by using tubing, also a great way to make candle holders. I have seen some Roman spears fitted like method #2. I don't think you would loose that much integrity by boring a hole and setting the tang, but I'm no expert on making spears, just thought I would suggest using tube stock. Then you already have the shaft end and hot weld the other end shut and shape it into your spearpoint. Easy!

 

[SkaerE]

i think the roman pilums were in fact made like #2 and they worked pretty well for a while.

one could assume that they expected to follow the animal to its death after sticking it with one or two heads and could retrieve them later....

 

[A_Matthew]

My brother has made a spear via the type one method. Only he used a 1 1/2-2" dowel, and epoxied the head into the wood instead of using string/sinew. Its held up for many years and has never broken.

 

[SkaerE]

glad to hear, thats the direction i'm leaning.

what has he been using it for? throwing for $hits and grins or actually hunting?

 

[A_Matthew]

SkaerE,

He only used it for throwing into stumps and the like. For hunting, he sticks to 'bang sticks'. (The ones that make a hole that's 3/10ths of an inch.)

 

[erik larson]

Hi I made A lot of spears when I was young number 1 method and another method I forged A spear head out of round bar and than hammered the but of the spear head into a metal pipe that it barely fit. and prick punched it tight so the pipe won't fall off you could weld it to any how it worked great and it was just mild steel.
know I'd make it out of high-carbon steel coil springs from cars trucks etc.

tampering heat to none magnetic quench in oil

polish so you can see shiny steel on spear head than heat slowly to dark blue

put your choice of wooden pole in the other end of the pipe
enjoy