questions on 38 special +P

Any advice concerning guesswork and/or assumptions about pressure should be couched carefully based on this:
goh412 said:
I've been reloading for a few months
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My advice is to keep it simple and make sure any explanations take that statement into account. I don’t believe in dumbing down expectations but I do believe in being thoughtful for other people’s safety.
@goh412 , why do you think you “need” +P .38Spl loads for a .357Magnum rifle? What are you trying to accomplish? It’s easier to help if we know what you’re trying to do.
 
just load up a batch of .38 Special with middle of the range charge and go out and see how they shoot. check all the cases by eye for any possible double charge. the case capacity has a lot of space, and I don't know that powder, but as easy as it is to load .38 Special, the large case capacity makes a double charge an easier mistake to make. I look at them all in a rack with a flashlight, if there was a double charge it would stand out like a sore thumb, or so I hope. still haven't found one yet, but I still look every time.
 
ArchAngelCD said:
+P does not mean "more powder." The +P designation means "more Pressure."


Absolutely correct, if you reduce the charge it will no longer be a +P load.
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I have to correct myself, the +P data is not exactly the same as the max load of non +P it is a tiny bit more.

What is interesting is that if using a LSWC bullet you can get more velocity, with less pressure>

Using W 231 and 158gr as an example (but Hodgdon doesn't test a LSWC in +P
 
In all my time reloading I have never, nor would I ever suggest a newer reloader (or any reloader) start a load work up with anything more than manuals' starting load data. At times a maximum load minus 10% can be used but that is often quite close to the book starting load...
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
Any advice concerning guesswork and/or assumptions about pressure should be couched carefully based on this:

My advice is to keep it simple and make sure any explanations take that statement into account. I don’t believe in dumbing down expectations but I do believe in being thoughtful for other people’s safety.
@goh412 , why do you think you “need” +P .38Spl loads for a .357Magnum rifle? What are you trying to accomplish? It’s easier to help if we know what you’re trying to do.
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thanks for the help

I initially thought I needed 38+P loads for a 158 grain bullet when I was looking at Hogdons reloading website. After going back to it I saw standard loads for 38 with a 158 grain bullet.
 
Soonerpesek said:
I’m not disagreeing, but wouldn’t a shorter OAL with the same powder charge create more pressure without additional powder…?
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AJC1 said:
In 38 that's not a major change but in 9mm that could get ugly fast. So I'll just submit its case depdant
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I may beg to differ with a full wadcutter in a 38 Special case......

The OP did not mention wadcutters, tho..................:)
 
Walkalong said:
Well........I started doing it before I was 60...... :)

But yea, I bet a lot of folks do, and I guess the wink eyed smiley means you do too.
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I don't, but given that time line I got plenty of time. There are a few boxes of speer wadcuters and I'll load them up when I bring them home this summer. Gota try everything once just to have the experence. Maybe I can locate some Bullseye by then to do it correctly.
 
I use DEWC often. Light loads of Bullseye under a 150 gr soft cast DEWC for target and a 150 gr DEWC normal cast (BHN about 12) over a max load of w231 makes a fine SD House gun load. Started casting and loading 38 wadcutters when I was in my mid sixties. Yep, didn't make the sub 60s cut...
 
AJC1 said:
I don't, but given that time line I got plenty of time.
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Ah, I meant do believe plenty of folks under 60 load them......could be wrong. :)

WCs tend to be very accurate, they take up a lot of space in the huge .38 Spl case, which helps ES/SD numbers/powder burn. This tends to be true for other revolver cases as well, most all of which have excess case capacity, and all of which do when loading light.
 
Soonerpesek said:
I may beg to differ with a full wadcutter in a 38 Special case......

The OP did not mention wadcutters, tho..................:)
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Yeah, but I don't know how well they would feed in a lever tho. Many times light for caliber bullets in .38 cases don't like to feed. I guessing this is why Henry recommends a 158 grainer in a .38 case for their levers.
 
Walkalong said:
Ah, I meant do believe plenty of folks under 60 load them......could be wrong. :)

WCs tend to be very accurate, they take up a lot of space in the huge .38 Spl case, which helps ES/SD numbers/powder burn. This tends to be true for other revolver cases as well, most all of which have excess case capacity, and all of which do when loading light.
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I contend the older and wiser group shoot revolvers, so they don't chase brass all over kingdom come. As a status of reloaders the young crowd is very slim, and the subset of those that own revolvers is exceedingly small. There is probably a population in that group just enough to prove my assertion wrong. :)
 
AJC1 said:
I contend the older and wiser group shoot revolvers, so they don't chase brass all over kingdom come.
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Older and wiser means finding solutions. Lever guns have a similar issue as do bottom feeding pistols. The solution to both, for me, is a 12'X15 drop cloth next to the shooting bench. You just gather it up at the corners when you're done, and the brass all slides to the center, so you can easily scoop it up, or just dump it in a bucket.
 
buck460XVR said:
Older and wiser means finding solutions. Lever guns have a similar issue as do bottom feeding pistols. The solution to both, for me, is a 12'X15 drop cloth next to the shooting bench. You just gather it up at the corners when you're done, and the brass all slides to the center, so you can easily scoop it up, or just dump it in a bucket.
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In the case of self-ejectors, my solution has been to leave them lay. My way of tipping the range staff or paying it forward to the younger brass chickens scrounging around the range. I got plenty, know where to get more if needed.
 
mdi said:
In all my time reloading I have never, nor would I ever suggest a newer reloader (or any reloader) start a load work up with anything more than manuals' starting load data. At times a maximum load minus 10% can be used but that is often quite close to the book starting load...
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But in the "case" of 38 spl +P there is no start load there is only the max load, no more no less.:)

But on anything else , true, don't start at the max.
What I think is even more important is the burn rate of the powder. With the fast stuff like BE or TG and little bit extra powder makes more of a difference than the slower powders. Especially in large volume cases.
 
I can't remember talking to anyone about handloading the 38 Special +P. If there were a load listed in a manual for +P I would recommend that. What I remember seeing +P loads in a manual only one charge is listed so the "max. minus 10%" starting load comes into play. Normally I answer/think about answering a reloader that only has reloaded less than 1,000-1,500 rounds. Most reloaders with any experience won't need to ask such a question or are very uncertain about their reloading abilities or methods.
 
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crstrode said:
Those of any age that want a very accurate bullseye cartridge might use a lightly loaded wadcutter.
Those looking for a very effective snubby load, might choose a full charge hardcast wadcutter.

Or, it could be that only those over 60 can spell wadcutter . . .
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The bassis for my assertion was that most under 60 don't own revolvers. I do, but I also own lever guns and the auto pistol I own is a 45... I don't consider my preferences for most things average.
 
We baby-boomers are turning into our parents. :D

Now, my dad didn't reload, but I had a lot of friends whose fathers reloaded. Wadcutters over Bullseye, Red Dot, or Unique. And they shot trap and hunted raccoons and rabbits.

I'm 63 and just started reloading. I just bought a box of 500 Speer LHBWC. I'm "old-school" anyway, but it seems we can't escape our destinies.....I plan on pumping out a whole bunch of loads using 3.7-3.8 grains of Unique or HP238 behind the wadcutters as soon as I can accumulate sufficient brass. My New Year's resolution this year was to shoot more, and to take my wife with me to the range when possible.
 
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