Ranier Plated Bullets...lower grain charge?

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Shaner

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I bought Ranier plated bullets for my guns chambered in .45ACP and .40SW. The .40 is 165gr. and the .45 is 230gr. My question is this:

I've been loading my rounds based on jacketed bullet charge recommendations. Every once in a while someone would tell me that I should be loading based on lead bullet charges, not jacketed.

I haven't seen any ill effects of my loads. However, all of my recipes are well below max loads. Usually, they're on the lower end because I load for plinking purposes, not for self defense or extreme accuracy for pistol.

Any inputs?
 
I've always loaded Berry's plated starting with cast bullet loads. That said I don't think there is one answer, start with a safe load and work it up. With .45 and .40 you are not going to reach the 1200 FPS or so where the plating strips off. For me really light lead bullet recipes were a dirty mess, the plated bullets drive down the barrel easier than jacketed and probably even hard cast which seemed to make it hard for the light loads to develop full pressure.
 
http://www.berrysmfg.com/faq.php

From thier FAQ:
"*How do I load Berry's Preferred Plated Bullets?
Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads."

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rcmodel
 
Thanks, RC.

I read the FAQ from Berry's when I was researching. I did get the same consensus when first started looking. The reason why I'm still asking is I wanted actual members' opinions on their experience reloading rather than website information. Not that they would put misinformation, but I kinda think they may be coverintg their posteriors...
 
Every once in a while someone would tell me that I should be loading based on lead bullet charges, not jacketed.
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They are correct. For the last two years I've been shooting Rainier plated bullets exclusively(25k rounds +). Jacketed bullet loads can be way to hot/fast. In general hard cast lead loads wil work best.

The no longer availble Rainier load sheet is on it's way to you.

Joe
 
I also don't use max loads for my rounds- so although I use mostly plated now... I usually use the same loads for FMJ and plated. My loads fall in the middle to low side of the recommended charge for FMJ fwiw.

I also chrono'd some .45ACP rounds with all the same loads, primers, etc... except some bullets for FMJ and some were Berrys. From what I recall the Berry's were about 25 ft/sec faster. These were rounds that were under 800 ft/sec so not hot at all.
 
Plated fit between lead and jacketed, they don't lead the barrel (at least in
my experience) so they can be pushed faster.

I've shot 3500 165 40 S&W around 1050 FPS without any trouble.

Berrysmfg says keep them below 1200 FPS, and load low to mid range jacketed, I've done so and haven't had any trouble with them at all.
 
Thanks for providing y'all's experiences. I wanted to exhaust all sources of information before blindly continuing my reloading procedures.

The no longer availble Rainier load sheet is on it's way to you.
Click to expand...

I'm anxiously awaiting...:)
 
Just to make sure you know, the main problem with loading plated bullets too hot is not that they'll blow up the gun or anything, it's that they don't grip the rifling quite as well as jacketed bullets, so you may have stabilization and accuracy problems at higher velocities.

I thought it was a pressure thing at first, which made no sense.

Anyway, I've tried Berry's bullets over book max jacketed .40 S&W loads, never had problems except they tend to get dented from running into the front of the magazine under recoil. Even with the dents, they group just as well as anything else I've shot.
 
I actually called Ranier on this very topic and the lady I talked to said to simply follow data for lead bullets. That's what I do and have been very satisfied.
 
Crap. Browser locked up, first post didn't show up right away, tried posting again, and got a double post.
 
I thought it was a pressure thing at first, which made no sense.
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Oh but it is. When Accurates data for Raniers was still available on Raniers site it was plain to see.

I routinely run Raniers and Berry's at 80 to 90, and occasionally 100% of jacketed data, but you can run into problems if you are not carefull. I have the Accurate data as well as the Midway data (multiple powder companies products), (only because I printed a hard copy), from when it was posted on Raniers site which is a big help.

Vihtavuori has a little bit of data for Raniers in their online data as well.

You don't have to stick to slow lead data, but you can't get carried away either.
 
I have been using 4.5 grains of Red Dot behind the 230 gr RN Rainiers for about 25k round with no problems and very good accuracy. Light recoil as well. ;)

Adam
 
Let's ask the experts:

Rainier themselves. They say at: http://www.rainierballistics.com/mainframe.htm Click on the "Loading Data" button at the upper left.

We, at Rainier Ballistics, recommend using lead bullet load data when loading our bullets. There is no need for adjustment when using lead bullet load data. Our bullets are jacketed using an electroplating process and are softer than traditionally jacketed bullets; hence the recommendation to use lead bullet load data. If you only have access to traditionally jacketed load data, we recommend reducing maximum charge by 10%. A roll or taper crimp may be used with our bullets; do not over crimp.
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This answers the original question.

I love getting in the last word! :D

(Okay, it may not be the last word. But it should be.) :neener:


PS: Shaner. Welcome to THR!
 
That jar of .45 230 Gr. RN bullets is a thing of beauty. :D

That's the Midway data I was talking about Quickdraw. I wish I had the PDF of the Accurate data with Raniers, but I just have the hard copy I printed years ago.
 
Got some catchin' up to do...

The no longer availble Rainier load sheet is on it's way to you.
Click to expand...
And my anxiety is over...just received your email. Thanks Hatley. It's good to get data for reference from several sources to make sure I'm on the right track...

Just to make sure you know, the main problem with loading plated bullets too hot is not that they'll blow up the gun or anything, it's that they don't grip the rifling quite as well as jacketed bullets, so you may have stabilization and accuracy problems at higher velocities.
Click to expand...

Ryan,
I was aware of that, but appreciate you posting this. Others that lurk may not have...thanks. Actually, I didn't know about the lack of grip on rifling compared to jacketed....hmmmm...

Vihtavuori has a little bit of data for Raniers in their online data as well.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Walkalong. I think I will pick up some Vihtavuori someday after completing my experiments with HS-6, HP38, Universal, Tite-Group, AA#5, and AA#2 Improved. This may sound like a long time before I get to it, but I like to try different things all the time...

I have been using 4.5 grains of Red Dot behind the 230 gr RN Rainiers for about 25k round with no problems and very good accuracy. Light recoil as well.
Click to expand...

The above statement goes for you as well, Adam.

PS: Shaner. Welcome to THR!
Click to expand...

Thanks, cpaspr. Like being here. I love TFL, but THR is a great place, too...

Not sure if you've seen this.
Click to expand...
(Ranier load data)

Quickdraw,
Hatley beat you to the punch. I do appreciate you digging that up, though... And, you can just go ahead and ship that jug of Rainiers over to my place. I have a home for each and every one of those buggers...;)

Ranier's plating is softer than Berry's. I used Jacket bullet data for Berry's and Lead data for Ranier.
Click to expand...

Velocity, that I didn't know. Does that mean Berry's is necessarily better, or just the way it is? I do know that I have to expand my case mouths a little bit more than I do for jacketed bullets. Wonder if Berry's is the way to go...
 
I'm currently loading 155 grain Rainier's in 40 S&W with 6.5 grains of Unique, gives me 1080 fps out of my XD, no problems at all. Its a good, accurate load.
 
The Rainier pdf file ommits the load data for .38 spl. I'm loading HS-6 7.6 grn, Rainier 125 grn FP. Seems to shoot fine. Anyone see a problem with this?
 
Jumpin4Joy,
7.6gr HS-6 is a very hot load for a .38 Special. Hodgdon recommends a Max charge of 7.2gr HS-6 for a 125gr Jacketed bullet but Rainier bullets aren't Jacketed, they are Plated. From what I've read Plated bullets are soft like Lead bullets and you should use load data for Lead bullets with Rainier bullets. I wouldn't use HS-6 for Rainier or Lead bullets because it's not really an ideal powder for that use. I would suggest W231/HP-38 or Clays for the bullet you are using or at least cut the charge of HS-6 you are using. Rainier recommends cutting the Max charge from Jacketed bullet load data by 10% if Lead load data isn't available. That would put your chagre of HS-6 at MAX of 6.5gr. You are within +P pressure range with a charge of 7.6gr IMO.
 
I load Rainier 230-gr RN for my .45's originally with cast data, but I started bumping it up to JHP levels because even at that charge the .45 is still a slow bullet. When going to a hotter load you need to be especially careful of the crimp; if you over crimp a plated bullet it will cut the plating material and at fast velocity you will actually strip the plating off as it leaves the barrel.
RIght now I load 4.7 grains of Titegroup as a general hard-cast lead load (or Rainiers) however I have gotten good results from 5.1 grains of Titegroup under the 230-Rainiers as well with no ill effects.
 
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