RCBS RC Supreme

[SP2000]

Hey all. I use a single stage to do 223 and I just went from a Lee Challenger to an RCBS RC Supreme. All I can say is Wow. If you haven't ever used anything other than a Lee, you don't know what you're missing. The "cam over" feature is amazing. I had no idea the difference in "feel" between Lee and RCBS. I paid $130 for the RCBS and a Lee Challenger is $80. It's well worth it IMO.

 

[gahunter12]

I agree! I use a RCBS RC Supreme for all my magnum loads (7mm, 300wm, 300RUM). Its the best single stage I have ever used. I load all my .223, and pistol on a Dillon RL550b. Do me a favor, and don't ever buy a Dillon for .223! It will cause you to load more, and shoot more. This will result in less powder, primers, and bullets for me! LOL! I just knocked out 500 rounds of .223 last night in about 1.5hrs.

 

[fguffey]

http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/instructions/RockChuckerSupremePressInstructions.pdf

Hey all. I use a single stage to do 223 and I just went from a Lee Challenger to an RCBS RC Supreme. All I can say is Wow. If you haven't ever used anything other than a Lee, you don't know what you're missing. The "cam over" feature is amazing. I had no idea the difference in "feel" between Lee and RCBS. I paid $130 for the RCBS and a Lee Challenger is $80. It's well worth it IMO.

If a press cams over I can measure the amount of cam over in thousandths. I have 7 presses that cam over, all of my cam over presses are Herters. I have RCBS presses, none of my RCBS presses cam over. I can modify a Rock Chucker to cam over, for what purpose? I do not know.

F. Guffey

 

[SP2000]

I just like the feel of knowing it's at full pressure. I really noticed the difference when sizing 223 on the RCBS vs the Lee.

 

[higgite]

Lee Challenger vs Rockchucker is apples to oranges. A more relevant comparison to the Rockchucker would be the Lee Classic Cast at $110+/-. Of course, if you like the "cam over" feel, Lee presses won't work for you.

 

[Bailey Boat]

Unless you guys are calling it something different, "cam over" is a function of the die setting not the press itself.

 

[fguffey]

Unless you guys are calling it something different, "cam over" is a function of the die setting not the press itself.

And then Higgite said:

Lee Challenger vs Rockchucker is apples to oranges. A more relevant comparison to the Rockchucker would be the Lee Classic Cast at $110+/-. Of course, if you like the "cam over" feel, Lee presses won't work for you.

I will assume Higgite read the instructions, the Lee instructions claim their press does not cam over. I have RCBS die adjustment directions for two presses, the cam over press and the non cam over press.

I included instructions for the RCBS Supreme. No claim of cam over but a lot of instructions and information about compounding etc.

Then there is bump, in the instructions furnished by RCBS they identify bump as a function of the press, they claim only one of the two designs 'bump', the cam over press is described as a bump press, RCBS says the non cam over press does not bump.

F. Guffey

 

[SP2000]

Lee Challenger vs Rockchucker is apples to oranges. A more relevant comparison to the Rockchucker would be the Lee Classic Cast at $110+/-. Of course, if you like the "cam over" feel, Lee presses won't work for you.

That's probably true. I'm not knocking Lee at all. I just only ever used a Lee Challenger for single stage and I was amazed at the difference.

 

[higgite]

What fguffey says has some merit. I own what is IMHO a true "cam over" press, a CH4D, where the ram raises to a max height as you lower the handle and then the ram lowers just a hair as you continue to lower the handle. In other words, it has a top dead center in both directions of handle movement. You can see it without dies in the press and can feel and see it with a die in the press. My Lee Classic Cast doesn't "cam over" but a die can be set to where the press "bumps" over, but the ram doesn't recede. I'd call that more "spring over" than "cam over". We may be "arguing" about semantics here.

 

[buck460XVR]

Unless you guys are calling it something different, "cam over" is a function of the die setting not the press itself.

This is how RCBS states in it's directions for setting their dies. They state to adjust the sizing die "so that the press cams over center". Might be part of the confusion.

 

[BYJO4]

The RCBS press is heavier and provides more leverage with less effort. I've used the Rockchucker for 40 years although all my handgun loading is now done on a progressive.

 

[GW Staar]

My Rock Chucker II certainly cams over. I'm referring to the bottom, under the ram......the linkage does cam over. It goes to point where the shell holder touches the die....You screw the die in further....then repeat...and the linkage squeezes all the play out of the threads, and the linkage, then cams over (or drops past TDC) at the linkage pivot.

If you want to call it a bump I guess you can, but my RCBS instructions on my old R.C. and the R. C. II, and the Pro 2000 all call it "camming over".....as well as my old and new RCBS die setup instructions.

 

[GW Staar]

My new Summit cams over as well.

 

[fguffey]

"camming over".....as well as my old and new RCBS die setup instructions.

GW Star, While you have the box of old dies out tell me what color the box is etc.. Before returning the instructions to the box please checked the year the instructions were printed.

http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/instructions/ReloadingDieInstructions.pdf

The die adjustment instructions included in the link above dies not describe a cam over, it describes a lock up, jam up or cram over. The additional 1/4 to 1/2 turn of the die puts the press into a bind.

When a die is adjusted in a cam over press the die is adjusted 'to' the shell holder with no additional fractional turns, The bind comes when the ram is lowered, to lower the ram the ram must bump the die and raise the top of the press.

Bumping, when rocking the handle back and forth at the bottom the die can be adjusted to just contact the shell holder at the top of its travel without the cam effect.

Cam effect & benefit. The name Herter had another meaning to those that could not manage the handle, the handle had a mind of its own. Many reloaders added a tie-off for handle support when using and when not in use. Herters added a detent ball and spring, reloaders added the detent ball and spring, the Herter Press was built with a default detent, the Herter press is/was a cam over press, when adjusted the top of the press had to be raised to lower the ram.

The old dies in your old box with the old instructions have alphabet codes the last code was 'M', after 'M' RCBS use a year stamp.

After all these years I was checking a set of dies recently, no year code/stamp. The die set has a 'N' code.

F. Guffey

 

[GW Staar]

http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/instructions/ReloadingDieInstructions.pdf

Where RCBS says, and has been for 40 years, under the section “FULL LENGTH OR NECK SIZING” : "Be sure all the play is removed from the press leverage system. To do this, adjust the die as above, lower the shell holder and set the die 1/8 to 1.4 turn further down so that the press cams over center." (Which it does).

The die adjustment instructions included in the link above dies not describe a cam over, it describes a lock up, jam up or cram over. The additional 1/4 to 1/2 turn of the die puts the press into a bind.

Of course it puts it in a bind.....then it cams over...you can feel it and you can see it when the link to the ram goes past TDC.

When a die is adjusted in a cam over press the die is adjusted 'to' the shell holder with no additional fractional turns, The bind comes when the ram is lowered, to lower the ram the ram must bump the die and raise the top of the press.

Herters presses may cam over a different way, but as you stated above it still has to bind the press. Same purpose but RCBS had the better method which most other companies copied.....while Herters became extinct.

Bumping, when rocking the handle back and forth at the bottom the die can be adjusted to just contact the shell holder at the top of its travel without the cam effect.

But on RCBS presses you don't rock back and forth....you bind it with an extra 1/8 to 1/4 turn of the die, and cam over. (past the bind at TDC)

The old dies in your old box with the old instructions have alphabet codes the last code was 'M', after 'M' RCBS use a year stamp.

Don't know about that, but I did check a lot of places in my RCBS manuals. The same statement as I quoted above is in the Rock Chucker, Summit Press, Die instructions (old and new) and in my Pro 2000 instructions.....like they cut and pasted it everywhere.

F. Guffey

So if you want to take up your argument about the definition of "cam over" you will have to take it up with RCBS.

The Cam-over effect that the O.P., SP2000, pleasantly experienced on his brand new Rock Chucker Supreme is real and it is effective. Congratulations, SP2000, it will last 3 lifetimes if you keep the rust away! Nice press!

BTW, there is an exception in RCBS instructions.....that concerns carbide dies. Binding and camming over is expressly forbidden in 3-die pistol carbide sets. The very hard and brittle carbide ring can break.