RE: SHTF and Survival guns (Semi Rant but good spirited)

[seeker1111]

Well this in response to the thread titled "SHTF and Survival guns (Semi Rant but good spirited)". By the time I was done typing this, it was locked, but I felt this had some good info so I thought why not just post it anyways? Enjoy!

Original message:

why bother with shooting at something if a 7.62x39 round just blows away most of the meat?

I doubt there will be much of what everyone talks about, but I see your point. A gun that I want to get my hands on is the Air Force (huaa) designed Springfield Armory M6 Survival rifle. The military type gun breaks in half and has a hinge which allows the barrel to fold underneath the stock/handle. It has a ammo holder in the stock, and the barrel itself has an over/under system, allowing to fire a .22L or Hornet, AND a .410 shotgun shell which allows for larger game.

The whole point is, its a light gun (4 lbs), very rugged, and can collapse to 18"s when folded, but can still fire a .410 round, or a .22 hornet/long..

The other version is the Henry Arms M7 (AR-7) which was replaced by the M6, but the M7 only fires .22Ls, BUT it can all collapse into 3 parts and fits into t he butt of the stock, AND FLOATS!

I would rather have the M7, but thanks to our friends at the BATF, the barrel of the over/under system disallows it from being legal (bastards). So either you will find it all modified to such that you might as well buy a .22 AND a 12 gauge shotty, or just go with a larger gun. But the Henry Arms M7/ AR-7 are plentiful, but I have read reviews on it, and most were not impressed with its performance, but should do what you are thinking about (i think lol)

Good luck, and if you ever find the M7 for sale, let me know!

Henry Arms M-7/ AR-7 survival rifle:

http://www.impactguns.com/store/619835002006.html

Springfield Armory M-6 survival rifle:

http://www.oldjimbo.com/survival/v-shrake/m6.html

 

[Blackbeard]

I guess my SHTF scenario is a bit different from others. I'm envisioning more of a total breakdown of society and government, for whatever reason. My weapons would be used not to hunt for food but to keep others from raiding my reserves. So, an AR/AK would serve just dandily in that regard.

 

[jaydee1156]

I finally registered (after lurking for too long) to answer the other closed thread about SHTF

Having bailed for Katrina but moving back in my house soon after
I have prepared for a breakdown of society this way

I've bought higher capacity firearms that are easier to bring to bear while sitting/exiting in my vehicle
A bigger water supply (very important)
A coupla 55 gallon drums of fuel instead of a few jerry jugs I had filled ('twas hard to get gas within 60 miles of New Orleans)
A more fuel effecient and quieter generator

oh and a new truck and travel trailer to bail out of this sinkhole next time it happens

I hope none of you ever see the thin veneer of civilization pulled back to expose ugly humanity instead

 

[larry_minn]

I think the point is your situation/local/etc.
For me the guns you talk about are not really a advantage. .22 hornet and 410 (which BTW should also shoot 45LC as well) are not that common. Concealment is not as great a issue as some places.
As said I am bothered by fact that protecting myself/family will be what firearms will be used for not game.
BTW who here has hunted for their total food? Not me. I have ate a fair number of animals around my AO but put up fence/well/shed for couple cows and bins for some grain because I know dang well I could not live (for long) based on what I can hunt. (without everyone else trying to hunt to live as well) The berries,chokecherries,honey, crops would extend it. Wild rabbits don't have a lot of meat on them (for me anyway)

 

[Prince Yamato]

BTW who here has hunted for their total food? Not me.

Egad! You've burst the bubble of some people's SHTF fantasies! But yes, you are correct, in most of those scenarios, you aren't going to have time to hunt nor are you going to find game readily available when everyone else is doing the same thing. Also, I think most people that post the SHTF guns for hunting live in rural areas, whereas those of us who are urbanites, realize that we'd probably be shooting at two-legged critters vs. four legged ones.

 

[ilbob]

I think the reason for the SHTF gun threads getting locked is because they just go over the same thing over and over again. Plus there is this underlying current of how many people you can kill that are trying to raid your stash that is a little disturbing.

I have an AR7 - Charter Arms version. It is a little picky about what ammo you use, but a lot of 22s are ammo sensitive. Not a target rifle, but can be a lot of fun. It does break down pretty good, but I'd be inclined toward a 10/22 if hunting were the main reason for having it. They are about as handy and the 10/22 is a lot better to shoot with. It can't be broken down like an AR7, but I am not sure that is such a big deal.

By the way, ever notice that you can put the parts back together inside the trigger housing with one of them backwards? I forget which part it is.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Take one of those guns hunting and see how you do.

In general, the AR7 isn't all that accurate and is difficult to keep zeroed (a problem with many take-down weapons.) The M6 was designed to fit in a jet seat pack -- a constraint most of us don't face.

For a survival weapon, take the gun you'd choose if you were paying $10,000 for that hunting trip.

 

[mrmeval]

Isn't the original M6 an SBR?

I want a single shot break action .22lr pistol that's scary accurate. I remember handling a hand made one as a kid. Some older fellow made them and traded them for his living. A neighbor bought one and allowed me to shoot it from time to time.
The antique S&W single shot break open are the pattern I'd want now but they're $1200 and up.

This might be worth looking at though EAA has spotty quality issues having multiple pistol barrels for a 1911 action can't be bad. If it allowed easy barrel change.
http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/airborne_combat_engineer/2005/02/eaatanfoglio_th.html

I just don't like TC contenders but it's about the most efficient way to get every caliber in existence so you can always use the ammo you ..uh find.

 

[crebralfix]

I almost see SHTF and "Survival" as different weapons. The difference is in the expected use...combat or general survival? Of course, there are many guns that can do both just fine. A Garand in 30-06 can take most game you'll encounter and it certainly will work for humans. On the other hand, a 30-30 lever action rifle will take deer and men. Even a bolt action hunting rifle will do the job in combat if run by a trained man.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

The original m-6 is a sbr. The current SA one is just long enough. They were made in CR. I don't know that they are still being produced, but there are sure some around. Neat little gun, would be a good 'backpacker' hunting gun for non-predatory species.

SHTF is always fun, to speculate on that is.

The Garand backed by 1911 is always my maximum fallback plan. But in a real living-through-each-day and still-working-in-some-fashion game plan, I don't expect to have (or need) an .06 on my back all day. My mini or even my 10/22 will work for that. The 1911 rides along for any contingency.

 

[mnrivrat]

Being a member for awhile it seems there is always the SHTF type postings as they continue to regurgitate for whatever reason.

I have avoided commenting within them for the most part as they have a tendancy to get carried away in the mannor of a Mel Gibson movie. Let me now however say just a little bit.

I have always been around firearms and have always believed in the right to self defense no matter the situation. I grew up in poverty where survival depending on many things - a firearm was almost the least of them. They were used for putting meat on the table however.

If a person is concerned about future events that may turn their world into some sort of survival of the fitest, then I suggest that you spend a lot of time in the planning and preperation, and hone your skills in many other area's besides firearms. I know this is a firearm related board , but be careful what you wish for is my message. And certainly don't look to a firearm to get you out of all troubles life can bring. Hard times are generaly not war related.

The plan better be to avoid situations where a firearm is required, because you will lose if that is anywhere near your main focus of your survival plan.

OK - I said it, carry on with the gun related aspects of possible tragic events.

 

[RobTzu]

The #1 Internet grammar boo boo is using "loose" instead of "lose". I am no grammar nazi but that one drives me bonkers. :banghead:

Some things to consider for a SHTF scenario:

One gallon of water per person per day is what you need. A family of 4 with a 3 day supply would be 12 gallons. At 8.34 pounds per gallon that is a little over a hundred pounds not counting the container. Either know how to find and make potable, without boiling, water or plan on not being mobile.

If you eat a grain and a legume you have a complete protein. If you miss out on one or the other some essential amino acids will not be in the diet. Wheat and beans will do just fine. They store well, but require a good amount of water to cook. Meat is great, but is relatively expensive. Hunting is time consuming and a gun blast may bring unwanted attention. Either from Mutant Zombie Bikers or the LEO who wants to disarm you.

 

[BADUNAME13]

YOU go out hunting bunnies.

I've got 2 cases of MRE's behind my Lazy boy, and a couple things of Mountain house across the room.

(And I sold my AR7...)

 

[HiroProX]

Ok, if SHTF, there are several options,

1. Bug In: This is where you stay put. Usual plan when it's a single point catastrophy and help may be coming, just not now. Or, it's where you turn your place into a fortress. Either way, you aren't going to be getting out for hunting.

2. Bug Out: This is where you pull up the stakes and take off. Usually, only an option for the worst possible situations, like protracted civil unrest or outright collapse of civilization. In that case, you're going to need your ammo for "unpredicted circumstances". Hunting is possible and viable, but use something which isn't going to announce to anyone in the area "Hey, I'm hunting over here", or you'll find yourself being the hunted.

 

[mnrivrat]

I am no grammar nazi but

I don't know ? If it walks like a duck - talks like a - etc !

LOL - OK , corrected !

 

[Vern Humphrey]

One question -- if you bug out, how many other people would be bugging out with you? If the entire population of New York City is running for the exits, I doubt if there is enough game in a hundred miles to feed them all.

Now, on my place in the Ozarks, I can feed myself -- and with my neighbors help keep our hunting grounds for ourselves.

 

[Titan6]

I like my Ruger Survival 10/22. I added the word survival so that the gun would be much more capable. Everyone knows you have to have a 10/22 to be a real SHTF prepper. I have read stories of people taking grizzly and cows at close range with .22RF on this very forum so I know it is more than enough for everything else. I can put multiple 50 round magazines in my SHTF bag and be ready for anything.

While the 10/22 won't jam every round like the Henery Rifle I have no link to send you to buy one. But I hear Walmart has them for cheap.

 

[Navy joe]

I'm definitely thinking all gunnies put too much SHTF thought into guns. I probably have more than adequate guns for anything right now. Ammo, maybe I need more, is there such a thing as too much .22? Everyone's situation and therefore needs will be different. Me, I already have hunting and other guns so what I need is 20 like minded people to close off the county so everyone else bugs out somewhere else. That may require guns.

Again, what exactly is SHTF, how big is it, how long will it last? I think I'm better off stocking up on canning jars and learning how to tend the stupid cows in my field than I am stockpiling 220K more 7.62 rounds. I mean I think I need more reloading supplies, better binoculars, nicer boots, and a set of NODs, but that's not going to help me if I am starving.

 

[Justin]

If you guys want to talk about survival guns for getting sustenance, check the Hunting Forum.

If you're more interested in self defense, try strategies and tactics.

Of course, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what gun you have, but how well you know it.