Re: Steel cased ammo in autoloaders

[BluesDancer]

Here's the story: I just got back from the range, but I thought I would make a thread because something interesting happened and I am curious as to the reason why.

I was shooting my .22 in my lane, and while I am shooting I see sparks fly constantly from the lane to my immediate right. Being the curious guy I am, I tap the man's shoulder when he is not shooting and tell him what I saw. He told me that he noticed the sparks too, and that the sparks were only flying when he was using steel cased 9mm, not when he was using the brass-cased 9mm he had (He was using both, off-and-on).

I then decide to stand behind him and watch the man fire a string of shots with the steel-cased stuff, and it looked to be as if the sparks were coming from the ejection port. Either that or the steel case appeared to be rubbing some of the internals before ejection, perhaps. I am really not sure.

I'm curious: has anyone encountered this type of thing with steel cased stuff?? Is this a common thing?

NOTE: He was shooting a CZ75 9mm, the steel cased ammo was Silver Bear, and I don't know what the brass cased ammo was. Both types of his 9mm ammunition appeared to feed and eject properly, and both were pretty accurate.

 

[Deus Machina]

It's possible that the coating was rubbing off and he was throwing steel-on-steel sparks.

Much more likely, it was just the odd slow-burning specks of powder that cheap ammo tends to have. All manner of com-bloc and Chinese ammo has done that for me.

 

[M2 Carbine]

This is a friend shooting steel case ammo in a Makarov. The streaks are not the ejected case.

 

[bigfatdave]

More likely cheap powder than something peculiar to the casings used.

 

[BluesDancer]

Thanks guys for the responses, good to know. Well, as long as the stuff works...

 

[JoeMal]

My indoor range does not allow steel ammo for this very reason.

 

[Sig88]

Ive used some in my AR and so far no problems. Actually I more success with the steel cased (silver bear and wolf) than the brass cased PMC. However, the smell from the steel ammo sickening, especially the wolf.

 

[RhinoDefense]

Here's what happens:

Steel is harder than brass and cannot properly expand to obturate (seal off) the chamber. This creates blow-by around the case and exposes the burning powder to the breech during recoil (powder is still burning when the recoil starts). The sparks are powder still burning. If brass cased it would be pushed out the end of the barrel, not the ejection port.

It is this very reason I never recommend steel cased ammunition in any firearm.

 

[Ben86]

As mentioned it was probably just slow burning gun powder.

I shoot tulammo and have not experienced this. Best steel ammo I've ever used, not as dirty or stinky as the usually cheap russian stuff.

 

[PabloJ]

I take safety glasses, ear muffs and respirator every time I visit local indoor range. I would venture to guess that the fumes from former commbloc crap-mo must be worse for ones health then second-hand cigarette smoke.

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

the fumes from former commbloc crap-mo must be worse for ones health then second-hand cigarette smoke.

But it smells so good, and is oh so addictive.

 

[kawtech87]

I saw somwhere that hornady is making steel cased match ammo now. Infact its on the second page advertisement in this months Guns & Weapons magizine. Ive always had great luck with hornady ammo. Maybe try some better quality steel cased stuff and see if your problem is solved.

 

[RhinoDefense]

There is no such thing as "better quality" steel cased ammunition. Hornady doesn't make steel cases, they buy them from Wolf/Tula in Russia and imports them by the shipping crate. Lot's of threads on M4C about them. Fun read.

 

[Ben86]

There is no such thing as "better quality" steel cased ammunition.

Simply untrue. There is varying density and material used to finish the cases. Some are coated with an annoying lacquer, and others (Tulammo) are coated with a nice polymer finish that makes less of a mess.

 

[PabloJ]

But it smells so good, and is oh so addictive.

The only thing worth smelling comes from .22lr Eley 'Tenex' or other loads in this caliber from this brand. The Remington target line that uses Eley priming also leaves pleasant odor.
The only thing with non-brass I have seen in adds from Hornady was 7.62x39 rounds designed for use in SKS or AKM type of weapons.

 

[bigfatdave]

There is no such thing as "better quality" steel cased ammunition.

Because there is ONLY ONE steel formula and heat-treatment process?

 

[fattboyzz]

Ive never had any issues with the steel cased ammo other than in my AR15 and that was because of previous stated reasons.

Burnt powder fouling up the chamber because the steel cases dont expand and then you shoot the brass cased ammo an it expands in the chamber and sometimes sticks..

Also never seen any sparks flying from the AR but plenty from 1911s an BHPs an copies ..

 

[RhinoDefense]

You can put whatever coating you want on a steel case. A steel case is a steel case.

 

[Ben86]

It's ok, metallurgy is not everyone's strong point.

 

[bigfatdave]

A steel case is a steel case.

You need to read up on concepts like steel alloy formulas and annealing.

There are more kinds of "steel" than you could count, and the cheapest ones are soft

 

[InkEd]

The "actual" reason your range doesn't allow steel case ammo is PROBABLY because they sweep-up and sell the empties from the floor and sell them to a reloading company. Steel cases aren't easily reloaded and therefore they can't sell them. It takes time to sort through them and they'd rather not do it. So, they just say "no steel case ammo allowed" and all that's left is nice brass ammo to sell to the reloading company.

 

[RhinoDefense]

I have a metallurgist on staff, thanks.

 

[Xfire68]

Ferrous metals spark!

 

[kawtech87]

It honestly doesnt matter much who makes the cases for hornady. I know they use top quality powder, primers and projectiles, so it should be "better quality" steel cased ammo. It seems to me that the problem was derermined to be unburned powder blowing back through the chamber anyway and had nothing to do with the extracter making sparks. If you ask me that argument over steel was pointless. Im sorry i even brought it up.

 

[19&41]

My CZ-82 throws sparks with steel cased ammo. It reminds me of shooting a black powder revolver.