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Reality check on gun crime rates. Awesome video!

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by josiewales, Mar 15, 2013.

  1. josiewales

    josiewales Well-Known Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 16, 2013
  2. Starship1st

    Starship1st Well-Known Member

    That was an excellent fact finding show. Pierce Morgan is a hack. :fire:
  3. josiewales

    josiewales Well-Known Member

    True. I really liked the way Ben Swann presented the statistics. Really nice guy.
  4. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Well-Known Member

    The problem for 2A supporters is that anti's don't care about facts--they care about agendas. They will say and believe anything that seems to back what they wish were true, thinking that wanting it hard enough will make it true.

  5. josiewales

    josiewales Well-Known Member

    How true.
  6. Cesiumsponge

    Cesiumsponge Well-Known Member

    More or less guns has very little bearing on the homicide rate. An exhaustive study compiling existing studies was discussed in a book on prohibitions by the King's College London professor John Meadowcroft, published by the Institute of Economic Affairs found here, staring on page 90 (page 45 in the pdf since it's side-by-side) http://www.iea.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/files/upldbook429pdf.pdf
    Australia's homicide rate after a complete ban on semi-auto firearms compared to America's homicide trend (please note the Y axes) without any notable gun legislation during the same time period:

    Homicide trends in Whales and England compared to the USA over the same period. Again, note the left and right Y-axis. This isn't a 1:1 comparison but rather homicide trends over time. UK's handgun ban in 1997 hasn't actually done anything to stop gun crime:
  7. josiewales

    josiewales Well-Known Member

    Thanks Derek. :)
  8. Cesiumsponge

    Cesiumsponge Well-Known Member

    One thing to note about the posted video. Halfway through, they stopped quoting citations on where the stats came from. I wouldn't accept stats in our favor wholeheartedly either if you're to make a rational, reasoned argument. I want the citations for all the numbers, even if they're against or in our favor.
  9. josiewales

    josiewales Well-Known Member

    Good point. I wish I could say, it's a news station, of course it's valid! Afraid not. :(
  10. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Well-Known Member

    John Meadowcroft, Prohibitions, The Institute of Economic Affairs, London, 2008. ISBN 978-0-255-36585-7.
    (Nice to see a book on Malum prohibitum laws, what I call "ban it and feel self-righteous about ourselves".)

    Chapter 5 "Firearms" by Gary A. Mauser (Canadian) looks at murder trends in jurisdictions with British style gun control (England and Wales, Scotland, Canada, Ireland, Jamaica) versus murder trends in the USA. Before and after effects of gun laws within the jurisdiction passing the law.

    This was published before Canada decided to abandon its rifle and shotgun registry as a failed experiment in 2012. New Zealand abandoned national gun registration in 1983: the police considered it a waste of resources.

    I remember Colin Greenwood's article in Don B. Kates' "Restricting Handguns: The Liberal Skeptics Speak Out" 1979. Greenwood noted that gun control in England was followed not by a decrease in the use of guns in crime, but an increase. And I might add an increase in non-gun crime of the type that might be deterred by the possibility of encountering an armed victim, such as home invasion robbery. But with each act, the British politicians point to America and say, see, our gun crime rate is lower than America's, rather than looking at the before and after in Britain.

    As Mauser put it:
    "Evaluating legislation is analogous to evaluating a new diet. If
    we want to determine whether our new diet is effective, we must ask
    whether our weight changes after the diet is introduced. While it
    may be reassuring, it is logically irrelevant to our diet’s efficacy
    that other people are fatter than we are."
  11. k_dawg

    k_dawg Well-Known Member

    The "Antis" only use the rhetoric of crime rates, safety and 'the children' as propaganda tools.

    Their only goal is to disarm lawful Americans. They know that partial disarmament drives up crime rates, which leads to more disarmament.
  12. RustHunter87

    RustHunter87 Well-Known Member

    ya the antis really don't care about Safety or facts....

    We need more news people like that guy!
  13. mr.scott

    mr.scott Well-Known Member

    To quote Kelso. "Burn"
  14. TexasBill

    TexasBill Well-Known Member

    Here are a few of the sources Ben Swann cited:



    I wonder if Piers Morgan knows that, for the first time in the 200-year history of the Metropolitan Police, bobbies armed with Glock pistols and H&K MP5 submachine guns are patrolling parts of London? We're not talking about special squads, we're talking about regular beat cops who have received firearms training. The London Police have always had access to firearms, but this is the first time they've been part of the daily kit.

    The interesting thing is that our Second Amendment was actually derived from an English law passed in 1688 guaranteeing the right of the citizens to possess arms for their own defense and the defense of the crown. One of the issues that fanned the flames of the U.S. revolution was the British government's attempts to deny the colonists those rights.
  15. josiewales

    josiewales Well-Known Member

    Very interesting. I hope someone asks PM that!
  16. ExTank

    ExTank Well-Known Member

    That Ben Swann video came out a month or two back. The anti's I routinely deal with already dismissed it out-of-hand.

    If Swan is even half-right, to the anti's he's all wrong.

    It's not about truth; it's about agenda. And any fact-or-figure can be added or dismissed at-will by the anti's.

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