red dot or "scout" scope for a 45/70?

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SkaerE

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Im finally getting around to scoping my 45/70 guide gun.

plan on putting some ghost ring sights on it as well, but i want some sort of optic.

opinions?

might look a little odd with an Aimpoint atop a 45/70 lever gun, but im sure it would work just fine ;)

its pretty much a toss up between that and a Leupold scout scope.
 
I've been thinking about the same thing! ;)

My choice is to put a quick detatchable mount and buy both!

The each have a place with a rifle like this.

- Anthony
 
yeah, but at about $250+ a piece, theres no way im getting both.

i've gotta choose.

theres too many other things to buy ;)

like food.
 
Given the intended purpose of a 45/70 guide gun, the red dot seems to fill the bill quite nicely. That is, quick and dirty point shooting with a reasonable amount of precision for long shots.

That said, if you're putting on ghost rings, that would be my choice for the quick and dirty. Might be better served for the longer shots with the scout scope.
 
If limited to just one then I agree on the Aimpoint. My history with that little dot sight is almost a decade and it still looks new and work great.

Dot sight is my vote...if limited to one.

If someone says your .45-70 looks funny with a dot sight, tell them their .45-70 looks funny without one. :)

- Anthony
 
I'd go Scout. I don't have a Marlin, but a Ruger #1 in 45/70. I have a 3X9 on my rifle, but had ordered the a Leupold Scout scope. Very nice and compact. Perfect for short guns and the 45/70. However the rings I had wouldn't work and I didn't want to order new ones. I like having a little bit of magnification and leave my scope on 3. It helps with hunting at dusk.
 
If you're going to go GhostRing, you'll almost have to go Scout.
Aimpoint is probably the best red dot sight made and a great choice.
Good luck!
 
I'd recommend either the Brockman (http://www.brockmansrifles.com/) or Wild West Guns (http://www.wildwestguns.com/) ghost-rings, combined with an Express Sights (http://www.expresssights.com/) Scout mount topped with either the Leupold 2.5x (my preference) or Burris 2.75x Scout scopes. (If you have extra money, talk to Wild West Guns about a stronger scope mount as part of one of their Co-Pilot conversions: Daddy Like! - but can't afford...) I wouldn't recommend a red-dot system, as I don't trust batteries to remain powered-up when something with teeth decides that I'm on its menu for tonight...!
 
Red dots have batteries, wires and small electronic "parts" that can fail due to moisture, cold weather or rough handling - maybe even repeated stout recoil.

Surely, when you need it most - probably after dropping several k on some hunt it - it will fail.

Simpler is better.
 
scopes have small mechanical parts, glass lens's, reticles, and many other parts that can fail as well. if anything, i would probably say that a red dot such as an aimpoint or EOTech would probably be more durable than a Leupold scout scope.

could be wrong though.

im still on the fence about this one. good thing i have until Nov to decide ;)
 
I suppose the best decision has to revolve around how and where you're going to use the rifle.

If it's intended for hog or deer hunting in some place where a new battery is a ten minute drive to town, then why not go with a red dot? A red dot is a perfect accessory for quick shooting and moving critters.

However, if it's intended as a bear or hunting gun that will have to ride in the back of a float plane (or strapped to a horse) to some wilderness lake, then be hauled around in the rain for days at a time, etc, then you're probably better served with a Weaver or Burris LER scope. These scopes are fixed power items that will really take a beating - they have no batteries to be disabled by cold weather or electrical parts that will fail due to moisture.

What's the rifle for and where are you going to use it?
 
of those 2 scenerios, the first is much closer to reality.

plus, if the battery did fail, i will have backup ashley express ghost ring sights as well.

but i like the idea of having a slight power boost (ie, 2.5X scope)

any reason you didnt mention the Leupold in those scope recommendations?
 
I'd go with the 2.5X Luey. Dots are nice, don't get wrong.
But with a wood and steel lever action, a nice EER 2.5X plex scope would work and look nice.

sidenote; I really don't understand why people consider an electric device running on batteries to be such a liability. Your car has a battery, your TV remote has batteries, your smoke detectors have batteries. I ALWAYS have at least one extra battery for my dot sights. I KNOW I might need it.
So I take care to make sure I have extras.
 
Mark, if you have time to change the battery, that's great - but on a rifle that may have to protect you from dangerous game, will you have the time? I've found a red dot scope suddenly "dim out" on me while hunting, and it took me a few minutes to change the battery. If something with teeth had been charging me during that period, what would the outcome have been?

I'm afraid that when it comes to potentially dangerous game, I'm not going to use a red dot scope, for that reason. Mr. Murphy frequents the hunting trail - remember "Anything that can go wrong, will"? - and I feel a bit safer with a fixed-power scope like the Leupold, which is unlikely to fail me. Of course, the safest of all is to stick with strong, sturdy iron sights, but a bit of magnification helps...
 
A 45/70 with a scout scope sounds like a great knock-around/ deer-driving rifle to me.

Maybe a stupid question here -- whenever I move towards the Scout idea I just stick with iron sites, but can you keep the iron sites intact and just tear the red dot scope off the rifle if it crashes?

I would think some kind of knock-down to the side (on hinges) site mount would be useful.

Did I just give away a million $ dollar idea? Please sell me one at cost if any of you put this into production.
 
i believe that people generally use quick release rings on rifles such as this (with the forward mounted scout scope) just for that reason (to use the iron sights)

the knock down to the side idea is an interesting one though.
 
I put ghost ring sights on my 45/70 Guide Gun. I have no plans to add any other sights. It is a short range sledgehammer. The ghost rings will do anything that I would want. Watch-Six
 
I don't think a scope belongs on a GG either, but some people will always prefer a scope; and they can be useful in low light conditions, so... whatever.

As far as batteries go - I wouldn't really count on a small device with a watch battery to work after hauling it around in the weather for a week, and then REALLY needing it on some cold morning when it's 20 degrees out and you have a 30 knot wind blowing to freeze everything solid... It's just not going to work! And you'll probably learn that when you raise it to take a shot at some B&C class critter that crosses your path - or something with teeth crashes out of the brush.

However, if this is for standard hunting in some relatively warm part of the country, what's to worry about?

On the other hand, doesn't a Firesight front sight (accompanied by a Ghost Ring rear) do the same thing as a red dot, and do so without batteries? So why put some electronic gizmo on your gun when an "unelectronic" (is that a word?) gizmo does the same thing?

I've had a GG for years and the first thing I did was stick a Wild West Ghost Ring/Firesight combo on it. I raise the rifle, put the red dot on the target and squeeze the trigger. What's the difference between that and a battery powered red dot, other than the batteries...?

So, maybe the perfect combo would be a detachable LER "Scout" Scope over one of the Ghost Ring/Firesight set ups? You've got your scope if you feel the need, and you've got the red dot for thick brush and moving targets.
 
IIRC electronic (dot) scopes are not legal for hunting in Alaska.

Dot scopes are faster than iron sites because you just put dot on target. With Ghost ring you are still need to focus on front site (assuming you just "look through" the Ghost Ring) with the target being blurry.

I would say that I don't think scope or dots belong on lever gun.

I think handgun type (ie large Square rear with large flat top front) sites plus a tang peep is best.

YMMV
 
Glamdring,

Try a Firesight some time. They don't seem to work well indoors under flourescent light (for example, at the gun shop), but get them outdoors and you will indeed have a bright glowing red dot attached to your barrel. And of course with a Ghost Ring you don't "use" the rear sight and so; you've reduced the number of focal planes by one - similar to a red dot.
As you point out, you are focusing on the front sight rather than the target, but you've still eliminated the plane for the rear sight and replaced the front with that bright glowing dot. It's faster than a traditional rear sight/front sight combination.

You could even practice focusing on the target rather than the sight if preferred - it's certainly bright enough for that. I just stepped out on the porch and sighted in on one of my neighbors rogue chickens to check that. It worked well - had that chicken charged me it would have been dead meat!

Keith
 
Acog Reflex

A good alternative would be a ACOG Reflex. No batteries. Amber dot easy to see in all light condition. Very very rugged. I know, used one for 6 months in Iraq without fail! If it can survive all I went through there, then it can survive any hunting trip.
 
I currently have a Leupold Scout Scope on an AO Lever Scout rail on my Marlin 444. I also have been shooting AR15s with a dot sight for several years. I much prefer the dot sight. It is just the ticket on something that lends itself to a "scout" type set-up.
This whole thing about batteries is ridiculous. First of all, the latest Aimpoint is good for 50,000 minutes. The "old" Aimpoint that is standard issue in the US Army only has a battery life of 10,000 minutes. If you pay attention to what you are doing and maintain your equipment, this isn't an issue. The thing that I have to wonder about is the Aimpoint's ability to withstand the recoil of a cartridge like the .45/70. They hold up fine in the harshest combat condtions of the US Military and have for years. The basic duribility of the optic is not a real issue, but the .45/70 and the 5.56 are two different worlds in terms of recoil.
 
the Aimpoint #10583

i just ordered the 2X aimpoint with 2MOA dot for scout duty. a little more money, but the 2X and 2MOA dot seems tobe the best of both worlds. (magnification and a smaller dot for a little precision). there is also the double battery cap that extends battery life. this is in addition to the ghost ring rear and NECG banded front that accepts different beads (bead, sourdough, fiber optic, and a flip up night sight).

monty
 
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