Remington 870 and Mossberg 500 durability

[CopperFouling]

The owner of a high-volume shooting range in Vegas has a few long and detailed posts on another forum about high round counts on various models of firearms that his range rents. From reading through the other threads, I've drawn several conclusions about the owner:

• He has extensive experience with the maintenance of many, many firearms over a long period of time
  
• He has his employees keep records of how often firearms have to be repaired
• He is honest about brands, no matter if they are expensive or not

A few days ago, I was cleaning some bookmarks from my browser when I realized that I bookmarked his shotgun thread and went back to read it. Here's the paragraph that caught my eye:

"I will have to more details as to what parts break in our Mossberg's and Remington's but it's fair to say that the 'low budget' model of each lasts about the same amount of time on the range. One doesn't outshine the other and they all last about the 2-4 weeks on average before suffering from parts failure that takes the weapon off the line." [emphasis added]

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/...ington--Benelli-and-Chinese-clones/1-474035/?

There are several points to mention here if you don't want to read the whole post.

• His shotguns are fed a diet of buckshot
• His shotguns are rentals
• Although it's not clear from the OP, he later mentions that at least some of the shotguns are older ones with metal parts

Regardless, I was pretty surprised by the comment about two to four weeks. I would have thought that even a budget shotgun would last six months to a year.

To be clear, I don't think the owner of the range is exaggerating or lying, but his experience does not mesh with mine at all. Maybe it's because I don't shoot hundreds of rounds of buckshot with mine, nor do the people I know.

Here's my question: how many THR members have had a part break on an 870 or 500 from wear? I'm not talking about the time that it dropped on a concrete floor shortly before a truck rolled over it.

 

[KYamateur]

I’ve seen people use 870s for decades and shoot thousands of rounds trap shooting and never hurt them at all. Haven’t seen as many Mossberg 500s but have never heard of issues with them. Most of the parts breakage I have seen have been firing pins in over/under shotguns and occasional parts in semi-autos. Everything will eventually wear out, but I think it would have to be massive amounts of rounds in 2-4 weeks and possibly caused by running them constantly. A super busy range probably wears out all guns at a pretty good clip.

 

[12Bravo20]

I have owned my Mossberg 500E 410 since 1985 which has been my goto shotgun for hunting, skeet, and HD use. I couldn't tell you how many thousands of shells I have fired in 35 years and have never had any issues, failures, or broken parts. I do realize that a 410 won't be as rough as a 12 gauge on the gun or parts.

Henderson Defense is very rough on all their firearms with the amount of rounds shot per day. All of their threads are very informative for sure.

 

[billtool]

Was the guy referring to Maverick as the Mossberg budget model vs the 500? I didn't read the article so please accept my apologies if it was delineated therein. One way or the other, I have thousands of rounds through my 500 long tube persuader over the last 30 years. Sure, I keep it clean, but have never experienced a single malfunction. Ever. Not scared to drop full boat 3" magnum loads through it either. My shoulder sure prefers 2-3/4" though. This thing's rough use causing a failure within one month is very surprising to me. Did the guy indicate a round count?

 

[billtool]

Was the guy referring to Maverick as the Mossberg budget model vs the 500? I didn't read the article so please accept my apologies if it was delineated therein. One way or the other, I have thousands of rounds through my 500 long tube persuader over the last 30 years. Sure, I keep it clean, but have never experienced a single malfunction. Ever. Not scared to drop full boat 3" magnum loads through it either. My shoulder sure prefers 2-3/4" though. This thing's rough use causing a failure within one month is very surprising to me. Did the guy indicate a round count?

Aw, to heck with it. I'll read the article. Thanks...

 

[JeeperCreeper]

I love those threads. I bought a Beretta 92 because of them.

Gotta remember those guns are handled like I drive a rental car... Those pump shotties will be slammed worse than I drop a tranny from N to D at 7000rpm

 

[cdb1]

I don’t believe any conclusion can be determined based on the information given. As has been alluded to it’s the round count between breakages that is the determining factor of durability, not time frame.

 

[lemaymiami]

Laughed a bit about this post.... When I came out of the academy, early spring 1974, the rack weapons that we were issued each day were a mix of Remington and Mossbergs - each a bare bones riot gun, four shot tube, 18 to 20" barrel (they varied...), simple bead sight - and every one utterly reliable when needed. They were beaten up, rattled when handled - and all appeared to be 20 years old before I first draw one for my shift as a rookie... No rental outfit would ever hand one of them to a customer...

Funny thing, although every one of them looked like they'd been "rode hard -and put up wet" the actual round count on any of them was probably pretty modest since the only time we went to the range with one was an occasional annual qualification (supposed to be annual -but never strictly observed) -and qualification was with around five rounds - no practice allowed or encouraged unless you were a range officer and did it on your own time. Matter of fact when I finally needed and used one on the street - I was the first on my hundred man department in many years to fire a single shot on the street... where it counts. Must admit that my skill on the day I needed it was minimal - in the following years I made a point of learning the finer points and came to rely on a shotgun for any close quarters work.

I'd be interested to hear more about that range's experiences - particularly which parts wore out on each make of shotgun - and the malfunctions they caused. Even a riot gun in poor condition - if it will shoot at all, is still a one shot fight ender...

By the way all of our poppers came with an improved cylinder choke from the factory... and a standard 2 3/4 00buck round could be expected to disperse one inch each yard from the muzzle... (at 7 yards, 21 feet you got a 7" pattern... ).

 

[eastbank]

i know what shotguns show up at our trap-skeet-sporting shoots and are used year after year, and that most (over 95 %) get very good cleaning. i also know what shotguns have needed repair over a very long time and a hugh amount of shells fired(factory-reloads) and can tell you, you get what you pay for 90% of the time. i will not put any shotgun down as i don,t know what your needs may be for them. but for me browning and remingtons shotguns have stood the test of time.

 

[Virginian]

I have seen two 870s where the action bars have worn thru the receiver wall from the inside. Estimated round count on both was around 300,000. One broken ejector spring between them according to the owners. One shooter admitted his action bars had always had a slight outward bow but he liked it because he hated rattles (?). I don't know anyone with that many rounds thru a Mossberg. Not saying they aren't out there, I just never met them.
I would not judge the reliability of anything based strictly on rental usage.

 

[CopperFouling]

I'd be interested to hear more about that range's experiences - particularly which parts wore out on each make of shotgun - and the malfunctions they caused. Even a riot gun in poor condition - if it will shoot at all, is still a one shot fight ender...

From the link: "Forgive me for lack of knowledge on the weapons but the "forks" that actuate the cycling are what break first and most often. The ejectors fail on both at about the same rate and we've actually had receivers split. Barrels have never failed though after a ring or two down the bore, the barrels are pulled from service."

 

[CopperFouling]

I'm wondering if the fact that they shot almost exclusively buckshot accelerated the wear.

 

[PapaG]

As an unabashed 870 lover you will be surprised at my response. In the past ten years either I, or my son, have had three 870 receivers crack. All were used mainly for trap, the first had well over 150K rounds through it, the second about 25K, the last, about 10K. Only other commonality is they were all from the mid 70s.
For long term, high round count, I'd probably name the 500. Ill stay with my 870s however as they are smoother, prettier, and my body has shaped itself to their form over fifty years. And the boys and I still have eight among us.

 

[.38 Special]

I read the whole thread. It reminded me why I avoid that place.

With regard to having to replace pump shotguns every few weeks, I have my doubts, especially when he claims the M4 has had no failures after four years of the same treatment. I have no skin in the game, but that's asking for more credulity than I can muster.

 

[rabid wombat]

I bought a Mossy 500 in the mid 1980’s. Bird hunting, clays, anything with a shotgun. The only problem, the cheap plastic safety broke. Other than that, runs like a clock. An abused clock, but a clock.

 

[jmr40]

I'm calling BS. It's hard to take anyone seriously who doesn't even know the correct name for the parts that are supposedly breaking.

Forgive me for lack of knowledge on the weapons but the "forks" that actuate the cycling are what break first and most often. The ejectors fail on both at about the same rate

It's not uncommon for pump guns to be fired hundreds of thousands of times without breaking the action bars. If they were breaking them this often the guns weren't being reassembled correctly. If he were claiming some other small parts were breaking I might take his post seriously. But the action bars almost never break.

 

[CopperFouling]

As an unabashed 870 lover you will be surprised at my response. In the past ten years either I, or my son, have had three 870 receivers crack. All were used mainly for trap, the first had well over 150K rounds through it, the second about 25K, the last, about 10K. Only other commonality is they were all from the mid 70s.

150k rounds would be pretty reasonable for something to break like that. In my opinion, it would be a testament to durability. 10k, well, that's another story.

I'm calling BS. It's hard to take anyone seriously who doesn't even know the correct name for the parts that are supposedly breaking.

It's not uncommon for pump guns to be fired hundreds of thousands of times without breaking the action bars. If they were breaking them this often the guns weren't being reassembled correctly. If he were claiming some other small parts were breaking I might take his post seriously. But the action bars almost never break.

I read that and thought shell lifter or cartridge stop / cartridge interrupter, but that may be because I've had my 500 apart a fair amount in the past few months replacing the stock and forend.

In the post, you'd see that he openly admits to not knowing as much about shotguns as he does rifles and handguns. He has several employees who handle the repairs.

I should add, though, that I have a pretty hard time believing that he's really having to replace 870s and 500s that frequently. I know a few people who are really rough with their 870s and 500s and haven't had parts break.

 

[eastbank]

to see for your self go to where they shoot trap-skeet-sporting clays and list the make and model,s of shotguns used , you will than have a good idea of what lasts and what don,t. if you shoot very much, over the years the cost of the shotgun with not even come close to the cost of the shells and fee,s to shoot. my main trap singles trap is a browning BT 100 with over 40,000 shells-1600 boxs thru it with out any repairs or parts, only cleaning it. at a average 5.00 dollars a box that comes to at least 8000.00 dollars and untold dollars for fee,s.

 

[PapaG]

Gun #1, 870 TB, 1975, my only gun for years. Trap, ducks, pheasant, quail and deer loads. About 2005, small part in trigger assy broke. Next year, firing pin. Total so far, 100,000 plus rounds. 2010, crack in receiver. Transplanted another receiver. 2014, broken slide bar. Ebay part fitted. 2018, sent gun to Remington and they fit a new receiver for $240, about $70 more than the gun cost. 2020, ejector spring broke. Only original parts left, stock, barrel and bolt. Still maintaining my 96% average at 16 and caps.

 

[cdb1]

Some posters seem to have the notion the gun range is replacing 870’s and 500’s every couple of weeks. My take is parts are being replaced not the whole shotguns.

 

[PatientWolf]

Parts replacement on each 870 and 500 every two week? That must be difficult with the barrels glowing red.

 

[eastbank]

papaG, with the amount of shell thru your 870 rem, their cost would have let you but quite a few new 870,s.

 

[FL-NC]

Where I worked for a time we had Mossberg 590's, 870's, Benelli autos, and even some old Winchester 1200 riot models that were older than me. They were all fed a steady diet of 00 buck. While they were definitely "beat up", I don't recall ever seeing one break. Maybe the older military guns used better parts.

 

[PapaG]

papaG, with the amount of shell thru your 870 rem, their cost would have let you but quite a few new 870,s.

I know. I have.

 

[CopperFouling]

Where I worked for a time we had Mossberg 590's, 870's, Benelli autos, and even some old Winchester 1200 riot models that were older than me. They were all fed a steady diet of 00 buck. While they were definitely "beat up", I don't recall ever seeing one break. Maybe the older military guns used better parts.

The load selection was one of the questions that I had. I'd bet the vast majority of shotguns are used for birdshot. It's interesting that you didn't see any break, though.