i've never fired a revolver but hanled some and they feel better in my hand than a semi and i always hear they are better for HD. Ive been researching though and some listed trigger pulls are rediculous "8lbs single action 14 lbs double" "12lbs double 7.5 single" is there anything with like 8 lb da pulls?
revolvers with smooth trigger pull
- Thread starter k9870
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An 8 pound single action pull would be heavy, but manageable. 12-14 pound DA pulls are about average. (FWIW, older S&W revolvers run about 2 3/4 pounds SA; many people unfamiliar with revolvers describe that as a "hair trigger.")
The fact is that in order to fire a primer a certain amount of force (momentum) is needed. That force comes from the mass of the hammer and the weight of its spring. If there is too much reduction in either (or both) the gun will have a good pull, but won't fire.
Gun makers always build in some leeway to let the gun work under adverse conditions of cold, dirt, etc. One can tinker a bit with that and reduce spring tension to ease trigger pull when the gun will be a range queen. But there is a point beyond which one cannot go and have a working gun.
One of the best DA pulls I ever tried was on a revolver that a member of my pistol club had worked over, at significant cost. I think the DA pull was about 7 pounds (I didn't have a gauge). I was impressed.
I was less impressed when he clicked at the bowling pins.
Jim
The fact is that in order to fire a primer a certain amount of force (momentum) is needed. That force comes from the mass of the hammer and the weight of its spring. If there is too much reduction in either (or both) the gun will have a good pull, but won't fire.
Gun makers always build in some leeway to let the gun work under adverse conditions of cold, dirt, etc. One can tinker a bit with that and reduce spring tension to ease trigger pull when the gun will be a range queen. But there is a point beyond which one cannot go and have a working gun.
One of the best DA pulls I ever tried was on a revolver that a member of my pistol club had worked over, at significant cost. I think the DA pull was about 7 pounds (I didn't have a gauge). I was impressed.
I was less impressed when he clicked at the bowling pins.
Jim
Sunray
Member
"...8lbs single action 14 lbs double..." Those are out-of-the-box factory triggers. They're made that way due to frivolous law suits. Every firearm, except a Colt Python(that's why they cost a grand), requires a trigger job out of the box.
An 8 pound DA trigger pull is still heavy. Think in terms of lifting an 8 lb weight with one finger. Mind you, a smooth 8 lb trigger pull isn't terrible. Still heavy though. A 3 lb SA pull and a 5 lb or so DA pull is ok as long as it's smooth. You really need to try a good trigger to appreciate it. A lot depends on what you're doing with a revolver. You may not care what the SA pull is on an HD revolver. You'd be unlikely to use it. SA is usually used for formal target shooting. Shooting DA well takes a lot more practice and skill.
An 8 pound DA trigger pull is still heavy. Think in terms of lifting an 8 lb weight with one finger. Mind you, a smooth 8 lb trigger pull isn't terrible. Still heavy though. A 3 lb SA pull and a 5 lb or so DA pull is ok as long as it's smooth. You really need to try a good trigger to appreciate it. A lot depends on what you're doing with a revolver. You may not care what the SA pull is on an HD revolver. You'd be unlikely to use it. SA is usually used for formal target shooting. Shooting DA well takes a lot more practice and skill.
I think I have run across a couple down around 9-10 pounds DA--but I sure wouldn't trust them for social purposes. For police use ANY reduction in spring weights was verboten.
Some of my smoother DAs (think older M10 S&Ws) run about 2 1/2# SA and 11-12 DA. Smoothness is more important than weight, and those are good enough for me.
If you want to know what bad DA feels like try a Mk. III Colt from the 1980s.
Some of my smoother DAs (think older M10 S&Ws) run about 2 1/2# SA and 11-12 DA. Smoothness is more important than weight, and those are good enough for me.
If you want to know what bad DA feels like try a Mk. III Colt from the 1980s.
Sunray
Member
"...For police use..." Yep. When the cops up here still used revolvers(most of whom did zero maintenance. Scary when a cop's revolver is rusted shut.), they could change the grips and nothing else. Some of 'em would show up for a League ISU match with their service revolver. Fixed sights too. Good bunch of guys for the most part.
Sunray
Member
'Custom shop' being the operative words.
earplug
Member
6/7 pound is fine with the right primer
Many revolver shooters modify their S&W's to 6/7 pound DA pulls for competion work. They spend thousand of dollars in practice, travel and fees to compete.
Most use Federal primers as they ignite easier then other primers.
I have a hunch that many competion shooters take more time and effort in getting a perfect combination of bullet, powder and primers that work for their firearms then most self defence oreinted shooters.
You would be well advised to find a competion oriented revolver shooter/gunsmith to work on your stuff. You might then be limited to Federal ammunition, but the trade off for better DA accuracy IMEO is worth it.
Many revolver shooters modify their S&W's to 6/7 pound DA pulls for competion work. They spend thousand of dollars in practice, travel and fees to compete.
Most use Federal primers as they ignite easier then other primers.
I have a hunch that many competion shooters take more time and effort in getting a perfect combination of bullet, powder and primers that work for their firearms then most self defence oreinted shooters.
You would be well advised to find a competion oriented revolver shooter/gunsmith to work on your stuff. You might then be limited to Federal ammunition, but the trade off for better DA accuracy IMEO is worth it.
punkndisorderly
Member
I shot a buddy's Mateba semi-auto revolver a few weeks ago. Very sweet and light double action pull for first shot and nice single action pull for the other 5.
The price is the only reason I didn't rush out to buy one for myself.
The price is the only reason I didn't rush out to buy one for myself.
machinisttx
Member
I have two S&W M66s with DA trigger pulls right at nine pounds(one is DAO, the other has single action at around 2.5 pounds), and a couple of others that are about a pound heavier. They both still have the unmodified factory mainspring and will fire any brand of ammo without a problem. Functioning is perfect. Other than polishing the rebound slide and greasing contact points(not sear engagement surfaces!), the only thing I did was change the trigger rebound spring to a much lighter version from Wolff. Dad has an M66 with an even better trigger, though I don't think he's shot it enough to really say it's 100% good to go.
I've felt some S&W's with DA pull in the 5-6 pound range. I absolutely would not trust them(for defensive use) as they proved unreliable with anything other than Federal primers. Those guns had been worked over by gunsmiths who specialize in competition revolvers.
machinisttx
Member
I have two S&W M66s with DA trigger pulls right at nine pounds(one is DAO, the other has single action at around 2.5 pounds), and a couple of others that are about a pound heavier. They both still have the unmodified factory mainspring and will fire any brand of ammo without a problem. Functioning is perfect. Other than polishing the rebound slide and greasing contact points(not sear engagement surfaces!), the only thing I did was change the trigger rebound spring to a much lighter version from Wolff. Dad has an M66 with an even better trigger, though I don't think he's shot it enough to really say it's 100% good to go.
I've felt some S&W's with DA pull in the 5-6 pound range. I absolutely would not trust them(for defensive use) as they proved unreliable with anything other than Federal primers. Those guns had been worked over by gunsmiths who specialize in competition revolvers.
Fractal X
Member
I just bought a used Ruger Security Six, it has a very smooth 7.5 pound DA pull and the SA pull is a light 3.5 pounds.
Some good thoughts offered here. Namely, 1) smoothness is more important than pull weight, and 2) a very light pull can affect reliability unless the ammo is hand loaded specifically for that gun. Gunsmiths that work on competition revolver can take the pull weight down to a 5.5lb DA pull...but...the ammo has to be handloaded with Federal primers only, and the primers must be fully seated. IMHO, a shooter has to do a lot of shooting before they'd benefit from such a light pull.
IME, most peoples' first reaction to a DA revolver's trigger is that it's too heavy. But lots of regular dry firing will help that tremendously, and in very little time, you won't have much trouble and the trigger will feel normal - your finger will get stronger, you'll develop a smooth pull at the same time.
madcratebuilder
Member
You need to experience some older S&W M27's, 28's and 29's. I guess I have not drank the Python kool-aid. I was not impressed with the one I had, sold it. One of the few hand guns I have sold.
The S&W revolvers respond very nicely to a basic trigger job that most can do them selves.
The smoothest double-action trigger pulls on average will be found on older Smith & Wesson revolvers that were made before about 1948 and had what are known as "long actions." The "long" refers to the distance the hammer moves through an arc before it's released and falls. That, and Smith & Wesson's hand craftsmanship and extra polishing that went into the lockwork before the parts were case hardened is what makes the difference.
The practice of keeping the original mainspring but using a lighter one in the rebound slide is not always a good idea. If the trigger's return stroke is slowed one may short-stroke the trigger during fast double-action shooting and tie up the gun. These two springs (main and rebound slide) are balanced with each other for a good reason.
When you reduce the mainspring you also lessen the firing pin's impact on the primer. Any time you reduce the pull below 8 pounds (10 is better) you risk misfires. If you are in the process of shooting a fast series of shots in the double-action mode and a light hit causes a hang fire, but your finger doesn't stop the next shot will likely be a double one, and you'll blow up the revolver. A total dud is one thing. A hang fire is an entirely different matter.
An ultra-light trigger pull is not necessary to accomplish pinpoint accuracy. Back when, using long-action S&W revolvers, Ed McGivern could flip a quarter-sized washer up into the air, and hit it while shooting double-action.
He made the point of explaining that none of the springs in his revolvers were altered. None of us are likely to get that good, but most could get "good enough" if they learned the proper techniques, practiced them, and spent less time worrying about the springs in their guns.
The practice of keeping the original mainspring but using a lighter one in the rebound slide is not always a good idea. If the trigger's return stroke is slowed one may short-stroke the trigger during fast double-action shooting and tie up the gun. These two springs (main and rebound slide) are balanced with each other for a good reason.
When you reduce the mainspring you also lessen the firing pin's impact on the primer. Any time you reduce the pull below 8 pounds (10 is better) you risk misfires. If you are in the process of shooting a fast series of shots in the double-action mode and a light hit causes a hang fire, but your finger doesn't stop the next shot will likely be a double one, and you'll blow up the revolver. A total dud is one thing. A hang fire is an entirely different matter.
An ultra-light trigger pull is not necessary to accomplish pinpoint accuracy. Back when, using long-action S&W revolvers, Ed McGivern could flip a quarter-sized washer up into the air, and hit it while shooting double-action.
He made the point of explaining that none of the springs in his revolvers were altered. None of us are likely to get that good, but most could get "good enough" if they learned the proper techniques, practiced them, and spent less time worrying about the springs in their guns.nitetrane98
Member
It's been a long time since I've fired a good revolver but when I carried one there was always a lot of swapping and "Try this." at qualification time. Seems I remember the S&W's and Colts, (Python Koolaid notwithstanding) were both smooth but pulled differently. There is no doubt in my mind the Pythons were smoother out of the box than any other gun. One started light and got heavier and one started heavier and got light. Can't remember which was which though. I knew some guys that took a sideplate off and filled it with UltraBright toothpaste and proceded to dry fire thousands of times. They were definitely smoother but they took the tradeoff of un-necessarily wearing other components that had nothing to do with trigger pull.
I'll agree with the fellow who commented on the Trooper MK III. That's what I carried but with a little judicious polishing I turned it into a very fine shooting gun. Without a reference to what a really slick trigger feels like many folks simply make do with what they have and call it fine. A stacking trigger was always what I hated most. Especially with slow aimed fire where you trying to slowing squeeze until the hammer fell. As the trigger got harder and harder, the shakes would start. Then to try and get around that you ended up jerking the trigger with predictable results.
I'll agree with the fellow who commented on the Trooper MK III. That's what I carried but with a little judicious polishing I turned it into a very fine shooting gun. Without a reference to what a really slick trigger feels like many folks simply make do with what they have and call it fine. A stacking trigger was always what I hated most. Especially with slow aimed fire where you trying to slowing squeeze until the hammer fell. As the trigger got harder and harder, the shakes would start. Then to try and get around that you ended up jerking the trigger with predictable results.
revolverforums
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nitetrane98 some of the early MK III's actually had python internals. You also want to be careful doing dry fire on guns that have frame mounted firing pins. It can break them. Those with hammer mounted firing pins it doesn't hurt at all. The largest advantage the python has is the type spring it uses, it makes the pull very linear and tends to feel more even then those with other type spring systems especially the coil spring systems.
As some stated out of the box some of the performance centers from smith and wesson have some of the nicest actions I have felt.
As some stated out of the box some of the performance centers from smith and wesson have some of the nicest actions I have felt.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Is anyones new S&W coming from the factory with 7.5 to 8 pound SA pulls?
I find that very hard to believe!
I haven't bought a brand new S&W in the last five years or more.
But my 317 came with a very crisp 3# SA pull, and my 625-6 about 2.75#.
I simply can't believe they have slipped that far down the slippery slope in the last few years!
rcmodel
420Stainless
Member
My Detective Special is very smooth in both double and single action. I don't have the wherewithall to tell whether it has been worked on or if it is typical of the breed. Didn't look like it had seen much use when I acquired it, but a previous owner may have dry fired it thousands of times for all I know.
krs
Member
rcmodel,
Rest easy, they aren't anywhere near that bad. Even the relatively cheaply made 442/642 comes with a decently smooth trigger of 11 to 12 lbs, and my recent 629 is 10 lb DA, 2.5 lb SA as it came out of the box.
Rest easy, they aren't anywhere near that bad. Even the relatively cheaply made 442/642 comes with a decently smooth trigger of 11 to 12 lbs, and my recent 629 is 10 lb DA, 2.5 lb SA as it came out of the box.
krs
Member
Old Fuff,
Big deal. If Ed McGivern had been a decent shot he's have MISSED those washers.... by shooting through the hole!
LOL!
Big deal. If Ed McGivern had been a decent shot he's have MISSED those washers.... by shooting through the hole!
LOL!
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Mcgivern, and probably Jerry Miculek, could easily outrun a gun with light springs.
I believe some of Jerry's speed records have been shot with full power springs in his S&W's.
rcmodel
I believe some of Jerry's speed records have been shot with full power springs in his S&W's.
rcmodel
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