Rifle vs. Steel Plate:

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no local shop is likely to carry armor plate unless they build tanks.
Lots of industries use AR plate, not just the military. Anywhere abrasive material is conveyed or transported - rock, gravel, sand, coal, etc. A lot of that equipment will be made of super hard steels in order to minimzie wear. Big industrial scoops, shovels, digging equipment. All kinds of construction equipment.
 
20 years ago or so me and a friend were invited out to Boulder City Silhouette Shooter's Club to shoot some steel.
We did, had fun and was getting ready to go when my friend asked if he could try his newly built .257 Weatherby. By the third shot one of the guy's down range was waving his arms and honking horn to stop. When he arrived back at firing line he threw a 1/2 steel plate Ram with 3 perfect .257 diameter holes clean through the Ram.
I spent the week welding plugs in ram and we didn't get invited back. I don't know if it was the ram or the money I won.
 
I hang mine from a piece of 1/2" gas pipe. That way it swings when hit, but shooting it at less than 50yrds it will still penetrate it. That is shooting a .223 50gr HP. FMJ's will penetrate at 100. a 12ga slug will leave a very larg dent in it at 25yrds. This makes a perfect target set-up for .22"s though.
 
I have to put in a plug for a local guy (salt lake city) who sells armor plate targets. Matt is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet and will make about anything. I know that he sells on ebay and ships everywhere, but I would just contact him. [email protected]. Every gun show he has something new he has come up with some new type target. I know this sounds like I am somehow benefiting from this post but I'm not. This guy is just one of the nicest guys I have ever met in "the shooting world" and would like to support him. Give him a call
 
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I am dismayed to learn that Browning rifles are made in Japan, I will not ever own one now. John Moses Browning must be spinning in his grave.
 
Big_E said:
Mav, I like what that 45-70 did to that evil piece of metal. Given that it is a volatile load, I am not sure if I want to be on the giving or receiving end when that thing goes off.
It does exhibit a strong desire to move backwards. :D In fact my shooting buddy (witness to my stupidity) says he believes it is more stout than the .375H&H. It feels about the same to me with equal projectile weight, but the .45-70Govt. weighs a couple pounds less. With 405gr.+ the .45-70 definitely has a little more recoil than the heavy (350gr. Woodleigh solids) .375H&H loads.

dubbleA said:
One of several Brownings I own, a 1989 Japanese production M1885 Hi Wall.
Beautiful example, here is a photo of the one I used for the testing:

IMG_4593.jpg

and the other rifles:

IMG_4596.jpg

IMG_4447-1.jpg

IMG_4589.jpg

IMG_4587.jpg
 
very cool comparison! i could tell my step son was not grasping how much energy there was in a high powered rifle and i was stressing the importance of making sure you have a good back stop when target shooting.so i brought a 1/4 inch piece of stainless steel home from work and i let him shoot it with my AR ,went right through and i'm pretty sure it helped him grasp the energy in a high powered rifle
 
I put a few .30/30 rounds into a scrap peice of 1" steel, and each hit left a 1/2" deep crater. Would angling it down like shown in that link eliminate that problem completely?
Absolutely, it maximizes the thickness (making it have to penetrate a greater thickness due to the angle) and also helps to deflect the rounds. The one I shot was slightly angled to reduce the chance of ricochet.

Lots of industries use AR plate, not just the military.
All I know is when I inquired about AR-500, the folks at local steel shops didn't know what I was talking about and just looked at me funny...perhaps I am just funny looking. :eek:

This guy is just one of the nicest guys I have ever met in "the shooting world" and would like to support him. Give him a call
You should start a group buy. I would be in for one of his triple target (with 12", 10", and 8" targets) or his AR-550 12in. target if you can get it set up. Do you think 3/8in. thick AR-500 is thick enough for the .300WM with match grade bullets (might as well be AP bullets from what I have shot at)?

:)
 
Mav, what are the two bullpups in your collection? I know one is the .300 win and the other is the .223.

Nice .375 btw, I remember seeing that in another thread. Do you mind pm'ing me your "specialty" .45-70 load? Not that I would try it I am just curious to know what it is.
 
1/2 mild steel gets hole punched by .308 at 125 yrds. SS109 (Green tip 5.56 ammo) will put little .223 sized ragged holes through it at 125 as well. Up close (50 yds) even a 2" mild steel fire hydrant collar doesn't stop SS109. Run of the mill 55gr FMJ .223 will severly crater mild steel at 50 yds, and start to punch holes up close. I'll see if I can take some pictures of the battered steel.

-Jenrick
 
Well, Mav, too late - before you edited, I already loaded up a bunch of .45-70 with that recipe. I figure I can't lose - if my NEF .45-70 blows up, I'll sue you, and if it doesn't, I'll ream my NEF Survivor .410/.45 colt to .460!! :D

Very cool. I think we'll see a marked decrease in the steel plate crime rate now that word is out..... In the picture, it LOOKS to me like the .45-70 only went about halfway through the plate -no?

And Mav, I'll just warn you right now -do NOT get into an eye candy pissin match with dubble-a. :eek:

Did Kurt's Kustom do your M17 work before he died? He did very nice work, may he RIP...

and yeah, I also want all the details of the bullpup turnbolt with scope, plz.
 
Mav, what are the two bullpups in your collection? I know one is the .300 win and the other is the .223.
The black one is my custom Bushmaster M17, which is the .223Rem./5.56NATO; the bolt rifle is the Desert Tactical SRS in .300WM.

Nice .375 btw, I remember seeing that in another thread. Do you mind pm'ing me your "specialty" .45-70 load? Not that I would try it I am just curious to know what it is.
Thank you, I don't mind that at all...just don't want folks to try it without a good bit of research and slow progress to the final load... mail.gif

Plinker77 said:
I think I need a 45-70 rifle.
I think everyone needs at least one .45-70!

:)
 
If my NEF .45-70 blows up, I'll [have my family] sue you, and if it doesn't, I'll ream my NEF Survivor .410/.45 colt to .460!
I fixed it for you. :neener: I have been thinking about that Survivor...wonder if it could take a .454Casull? That isn't too much larger, but the pressure is a good bit higher IIRC, and it would still be a formidable little rifle (not to suggest that a hot .45LC is anemic, just not a .454).

Very cool. I think we'll see a marked decrease in the steel plate crime rate now that word is out...
That is my goal, to protect and perforate. :D

In the picture, it LOOKS to me like the .45-70 only went about halfway through the plate -no?
Then I need a better camera (or rather better photography skills), straight through, but it didn't have much left afterwards, it lodged itself in the rear of a 4in. thick board supporting the steel. I will update later with the hole sizes, but to say that the .45-70 hole is large is an understatement.

And Mav, I'll just warn you right now -do NOT get into an eye candy pissin match with dubble-a.
Tell me about it...he lures me in with the Browning, then beats me to a bloody pulp with those Coopers...then beats everyone in the rimfire match with the same beautiful rifle (well one of em' anyway).

Did Kurt's Kustom do your M17 work before he died? He did very nice work, may he RIP...
Nope I did a good portion of the work myself (he was the inspiration) and had a gunsmith mill the slots in the side, right after he passed away. He did good work and improved upon the design a great deal. Here is a link to my improvements to the M17...you have one too don't-cha'?

and yeah, I also want all the details of the bullpup turnbolt with scope, plz.
The bullpup is a DT-SRS .300WM (26in. Krieger bbl) with a Premier Reticles Heritage 5-25x56mm scope, mounts are DT 40MOA tapered 1-pc. That's about it...oh yeah and it can easily do a 0.5MOA cold bore every single time (if I do my part). I love that little detail. :D
 
Results are in...

Measured all of the holes (and craters), and here are the results:

♦ .30cal M1 Carbine: 0.493in. diameter, ≈ 0.06in. deformation (from flat surface, typical)
♦ .223Rem.:
⇒ Two shots hit steel backer pipe (welded to reverse): 0.394in. & 0.437in. diameters; ≈ 0.30in. & 0.27in. deformation (did not fully penetrate but bulged reverse)
⇒ Two shots did not hit steel backer pipe: 0.378in. & 0.395in. diameters; ≈ 0.41in. & 0.38in. deformation (did not fully penetrate but bulged reverse)
♦.300WM: 0.505in., 0.509in., 0.518in., and 0.556in diameter (last shot grazed backer pipe exiting at slight angle); all exhibited 100% penetration
♦.375H&H: 0.607in. diameter; 100% penetration
♦.45-70Govt.: 0.721in. diameter; 100% penetration

Note: Typical diameter of a US Dime is 0.705in. (seems smaller doesn't it?)

:)
 
Well, there isn't much wrong with the quality of Japanese rifles. I am just personally offended that a these rifles that are uniquely American, are made somewhere other than America. The 1885 low wall/high walls are the only Brownings I do like. There rest of there stuff is gaudy, overpriced, and generally purchase by people who take them out once or twice a year, owning them just so they can tell people "yep I own a Browning" Nothing implied toward Mav223 however.
 
...generally purchase by people who take them out once or twice a year, owning them just so they can tell people "yep I own a Browning" Nothing implied toward Mav223 however.
Yeah, I take mine out at least a couple times a month so I can tell people "yep I own a Browning". :p I never really considered a Browning much of a bragger's rifle (shotguns on the other hand are a different story), I thought that was for the folks with Sakos, et al.

:)
 
Hey, my grandpa owns a 1885 low wall .223. Though he hates it and wishes he never bought it. I just know too many people who own A-bolts, X-bolts, and the Dick's special, the A Bolt II, and they thumb their nose up at CZ's, M77's, and Savages. As far as I'm concerned their rifles are Jap Scrap with fake gold accents.
 
I just know too many people who own A-bolts, X-bolts, and the Dick's special, the A Bolt II, and they thumb their nose up at CZ's, M77's, and Savages
Hmm, I had a A-bolt II but ended up trading it (for the 1885)...it great gun, horrible chambering (.270WSM), and I am very pleased with the trade. If I were buying today something similar to the A-bolt today I would choose the Winchester M-70 hands down, IMO it is nicer than the A-Bolt and easily better (and a little cheaper) than the X-Bolt.

Now lets get back to blastin' steel. :D
 
On the DT-SRS: We're not worthy; we're not worthy! :eek: :D

Yeah, I can't figure out why anyone would pay MORE for an X-bolt, which has more plastic than a A-bolt; that's a head-scratcher.....
 
Doc. said:
On the DT-SRS: We're not worthy; we're not worthy!
You aught to getcha' one...it is chock full of that tasty bullpup goodness. :D Speaking of which you already have a M17S don't you (don't know if you missed this before)?
 
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