Rifleman with a Crossbow

[sage5907]

Earlier in the year I began getting pictures of two big animals that I wanted to hunt in October but I couldn't get close enough to hunt them with the archery equipment I owned. Then on youtube I watched Chris Bee shooting a Mission Sub 1 crossbow and hitting targets at 100 yards and a light went off for me. I found a used Mission Sub 1 on eBay and bought it for about half the price of a new bow. The bow is made by a Mathews company and I am full aware of the quality of bows built by Mathews. The solo cam compound version that I owned was quiet and fast. This bow is designed to shoot an arrow at 350 fps and under controlled conditions do moa at 100 yards. A Nikon Prostaff scope with BDS sighting came with the package and I installed the scope and sighted in the bow. When I sighted in the duplex at 20 yards it was easy to hit a two inch dot, the 30 yard bds point easily hit a two inch dot, the next increment was on at 44 yards , and the forth increment was on at 56 yards. I still have two more increments to determine the distances. This bow is just like shooting a rifle. The trigger pull is long and I just keep pulling until it fires. The bow cocks with a rope sled and the 200 pound draw weight is not that difficult and it feels like doing a workout on an excercise machine. I am especially interested in comments from those who have crossbow experience. This is my first crossbow and from what I have learned so far I would advise others to try a crossbow. I have until October 1st to learn how to use the bow and it is very accurate and easy to use.

 

[archeryrob]

sound travels 1125fps and the bow 350fps. The deer will still have two seconds to react if it hears the bow shoot at 100 yards. Shooting targets long distance and shooting game long distance with a bow is two different things. Target don't string jump.

wind blowing at you will affect flight, but they will hear it less. Wind blowing from you to them and they will hear it louder and smell you too possibly.

 

[.308 Norma]

Earlier in the year I began getting pictures of two big animals that I wanted to hunt in October but I couldn't get close enough to hunt them with the archery equipment I owned.

I would advise others to try a crossbow. I have until October 1st to learn how to use the bow and it is very accurate and easy to use.

Curious sage5907 - is it legal where you live to use a crossbow for hunting big game during archery season? There's a lot of restrictions when it comes to using crossbows for big game hunting during archery season here.

 

[illinoisburt]

Crossbows are probably the current most contentious subject in archery hunting circles you can find, though much more accepted today than 20 years ago when many states heavy restricted their use. Anyway hunting with one is not super different than other archery setups even if these are easier to aim for most users. For someone shooting out of a blind or tree stand it's mostly making sure you have clearance for the bow limbs and understanding the arrow does have an arc over longer distances so it will travel very high above line of sight which requires open shooting lanes. Along with that as others have noted, crossbows are loud -- much more so than a traditional recurve or compound. The flight time of the bolt gives animals plenty of reaction time to move so getting a consistent bullseye on a target at 100 yards may mean very little if the deer walks forward two or three steps (or hopefully jumps completely out of the way if it's not standing still). Plus arrows at long range usually have slowed dramatically and combining lightweight arrows with low efficiency broadhead (mechanical) may have poor penetration. Like any other archery hunting, expect to blood trail any animal you shoot. Get good visuals to mark where animals are hit and direction of travel.

All of this may not be as challenging when hunting from a blind overlooking a greenfield or bait station in open space. Wooded/brush/tall grass or standing corn will complicate the process and require more attention to details.

Don't take this as discouragement. Just understand the switch over to an arrow flinger isn't quite as simple as sighting in a scope and heading to the woods even if a bunch of compound shooters claim crossbows are gun equivalents.

 

[sage5907]

Thanks for the input. I have years of experience as a bow hunter with both a recurve and a compound so I know a lot about bow hunting deer. I started bow hunting with a recurve and changed to a compound bow in 1993 and enjoyed 3D competition as well as hunting for several years. I got frustrated with maintaining a compound and all the gadgets and after about 10 years of that and went back to a recurve which I dearly love. The hardest thing about deer hunting is to draw a bow in the presence of a deer. Once the bow is at full draw the easy part is the shot and after that it is either a hit or miss. Another reason I changed back from a compound to a recurve is that I realized that every deer I have taken with a compound I could have taken with a recurve. Also, I have no desire to shoot a big game animal at 100 yards with this crossbow but I am impressed with it's long range accuracy. In this case I am planning to set up at at a known distance of about 50 yards. I will plan this hunt ahead of time so I know exactly where the animal will be when I shoot and the distance to the shooting spot. In Oklahoma it is legal to use a crossbow and it is also legal to draw the deer to a shooting spot with feed. I hunt only large mature bucks and it takes a dedicated hunter to be successful year after year. In learning to use this crossbow I am just getting started paper tuning the arrows. I want to use feathers and fixed blade Magnus broadheads and I'm hoping that members can share their experience with this.

 

[archeryrob]

I don't care if you use a crossbow and my only concern is with string jump and distance as crossbows are loud being shot. Lots of left over energy in them still. I would see if you can still keep it under 50 yards. I used a cross bow the last couple of years as was more concerned with meat. It is is legal and the distance is short enough to do it. See if Mission makes and limb silencers and try them out. Video it before and after for your phone and have someone else observe.

I am setting up a stand for the food plot and fence opened up and ten yards for the self bow and homemade equipment this year. Other stands I might use the crossbow.

 

[sage5907]

See if Mission makes and limb silencers and try them out. Video it before and after for your phone and have someone else observe.

I've thought about trying to add some limb silencers. One reason a crossbow sounds loud is because your head is so close to the string. When compound bows first came out in the 1990's they sounded like a 410 shotgun, and the big reason I bought the Mission Sub 1 is because of the quietness of the solo cams. I have been paying attention to the loudness of my crossbow and estimating the time it takes for the bolt to get to a target at 50 yards. I think it takes about a half second for the bolt to travel 50 yards and if an animal is at full alert it would be hard to make a hit. But, if he's got his head down and chewing on a mouth full of corn he could be slower. Maybe I'll get lucky and he'll be hearing impaired.

 

[illinoisburt]

I want to use feathers and fixed blade Magnus broadheads and I'm hoping that members can share their experience with this

Magnus makes good traditional style fixed broadheads. I have no doubt they will hold up so long as you spin test to ensure they are aligned and the broadheads clear any parts of the crossbow when it's cocked and loaded.

I'm not sure how well feathers will work with a crossbow since they tend to have a lot of helical offset on the arrow which will be riding in the barrel channel. Feathers are also both louder in flight and slow an arrow faster than plastic fletches. So long as you test the combination and get good flight it should be okay. (I'm assuming you are using carbon or aluminum bolts with correct nock and length/spine for the crossbow.)

In the end it doesn't make a lot of difference in the outcome of archery hunting how the arrow was launched so long as you get a boiler room hit with a sharp head.

 

[archeryrob]

But, if he's got his head down and chewing on a mouth full of corn he could be slower. Maybe I'll get lucky and he'll be hearing impaired.

Grant woods did a thing on head up or head down and concluded it is better to shoot deer with a bow with the head up. They react faster with the head down and this video shows that.

 

[earlthegoat2]

As a life long archery hunter and enthusiast and a user of crossbows for hunting for the last 8 or so years, I can say that yes, it is very much like shooting a rifle....but all the rules of archery hunting still apply. I really dont find it THAT much of an advantage. My range extended from 30 yds with a compound to 45 yds with the crossbow.

The accuracy is quite unbelievable as my older Excalibur shoots 3" groups at 60 yds. Once again though, I still find that archery hunting limitations still keep things pretty darn close to traditional bowhunting limitations.

Not having to draw while hunting and the optical sight is probably the only advantage I can think of. I could never warm up to optics on a compound bow but it is very natural on a crossbow as, like was said. they are very similar to a rifle.

 

[Wolfshead]

First I would say that even though it shoots like a rifle it is not a rifle, and I know that you know this.
I would IMHO not shoot more than 40-45 max. That is a personal limit I place on myself.
Also, you will need a plan on how to unload the crossbow if you don’t shoot it in the field.
you probably already do

 

[FL-NC]

I started hunting with a Xbow a few years ago. Mine also goes 350 FPS but its louder than I would like it to be. I can hit vitals easily at 50 yards, but every deer I have ever hit with it (25 yards and closer) was hit high- they were ducking at the shot.

 

[sage5907]

Grant woods did a thing on head up or head down and concluded it is better to shoot deer with a bow with the head up. They react faster with the head down and this video shows that.

This is a great video. I have been a deer hunter for years but I never thought about the head position on a deer when deciding to shoot with a bow. I will definitely wait for the head up position before I shoot. Something good almost always comes when I start a thread and this thread has already served me well.

 

[sage5907]

One thing I plan on doing is to put a piece of tape on my cheekpiece and write the distance for each of the shooting points. 20, 30, 44 and 66 I know when that big critter comes I will be so busy trying to calculate the distance and pick the right aimpoint that I won't have time to get excited. I have always been a determined hunter and have learned over the years to really bear down when the time comes.

I have started out with 20 inch Carbon Express PileDriver arrows with 125 grain points that that weigh a total of 485 grains. They seem to be accurate enough I have been thinking about trying Black Eagle Executioner arrows with 125 grain points that weigh a total of 451 grains. I am really interested in suggestions for arrows and suggestions for brass bushings. Thanks.

 

[sage5907]

I'm not sure how well feathers will work with a crossbow since they tend to have a lot of helical offset on the arrow which will be riding in the barrel channel. Feathers are also both louder in flight and slow an arrow faster than plastic fletches. So long as you test the combination and get good flight it should be okay.

I have a lot of 4 inch feathers left over from my compound days and I will try them when the commercial vanes fail. One good thing about my crossbow is that it looks like the vanes or feathers do not touch the rails during the shot. I hope I can use the feathers because they don't get warped and distorted with hot summer heat or hard during the cold winter.

 

[archeryrob]

I have started out with 20 inch Carbon Express PileDriver arrows with 125 grain points that that weigh a total of 485 grains. They seem to be accurate enough I have been thinking about trying Black Eagle Executioner arrows with 125 grain points that weigh a total of 451 grains. I am really interested in suggestions for arrows and suggestions for brass bushings. Thanks.

I shot the Pile Drivers with my Killer Instinct and got terrible planning with broadheads, but shot great with field points. I built wood blocks in on my spine tester to measure 20" arrows and found them to be 2.5x's softer than the Killer Instinct arrows. Mine seems to need the stiff spine and stopped planning with the KI arrows and stiffer spine. I gave my Carbon express arrows to my buddy and he shot them out of his without any problems. So you will have to test your bow with broadheads and see if they work for yours.

Black eagle are said to be very nice arrows with a spiff spine, if you need it.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I have started out with 20 inch Carbon Express PileDriver arrows with 125 grain points that that weigh a total of 485 grains. They seem to be accurate enough I have been thinking about trying Black Eagle Executioner arrows with 125 grain points that weigh a total of 451 grains. I am really interested in suggestions for arrows and suggestions for brass bushings. Thanks.

I am a fan but f heavier arrows and a bit of high FOC weight distribution that I picked up from the trad archery world. I’m not sure how it plays out with modern equipment but I am happy so far. I use Zombie Slayer bolts and 125 gr Ramcat fixed blade broadheads as they seem to shoot perfectly to the same POA as my field points.

 

[sage5907]

I am a fan but f heavier arrows and a bit of high FOC weight distribution that I picked up from the trad archery world. I’m not sure how it plays out with modern equipment but I am happy so far. I use Zombie Slayer bolts and 125 gr Ramcat fixed blade broadheads as they seem to shoot perfectly to the same POA as my field points.

Thanks for the reply. I have been looking at the Black Eagle Zombie Slayer as a replacement for the Carbon Express Pile Drive. In fact, I already have them in my cart on Amazon. I have yet to use the Magnus Stinger 125 broadheads but I am very close to beginning my testing. I have a good supply of 125 grain Stingers that I have been using with my recurves. The Zombie Slayer and the Black Eagle Executioner look like the same arrow and they are supposed to have a stiffer spine than the Pile Driver and I like the brass bushings. The 20 inch Executioner with a 125 grain point is supposed to weigh 451 grains and I would expect the Zombie Slayer to be the same. That is 34 grains less than my Pile Drivers so they would be a little faster. The colors on the Zombie Slayer have a more camo look. I watched a guy on youtube use the Zombie Slayer with both field points and fixed blade broadheads and he was also getting good groups and they were hitting in the same aim point. I won't use mechanical broadheads or broadheads where you can change the blades by unscrewing the heads. I remember years ago about getting up in a tree stand and having the blades fall out of an arrow. That is damn dejecting.

 

[archeryrob]

Do not worry about the heavy arrows!! Crossbows have so much power that it does not matter. I lost my last G5 montech and the bolt killing a buck. It went through him, entry side hit rib near maybe 3rd and deflect 20 degrees and came out the second to last rib and flew over the hill never to be found. Other deer I shot through and it went 12" in the ground. Buddy shot one with his old excaliber recurve and we couldn't get it out of the tree it went so far in. Light arrows will still bury in the dirt a ways!

I had some old Bear heads I killed deer with 30 years ago with a recurve. Shot them on a crossbow into mulch and they bent!! If it does not say for a crossbow I wouldn't use it on one. I can personally vouch for the Muzzy HBX and put the same one through two deer and dirt, resharpened and it is ready for this year. Same head and same bolt. I shoot the bolt three times into a target to verify they are still good and flex them. Most Crossbow broadheads are designed to be smaller to prevent wind drag. Shwackers and Rage and others are good. Shwacker looks to me like it could get hung up trying to exit the far rib cage, but that is just my guess. I'd like a good hole to bleed. The only HBX that did not exit was the buck I spined and he collapsed right under me.

 

[sage5907]

Most Crossbow broadheads are designed to be smaller to prevent wind drag.

Magnus makes a fixed blade that is shorter than the Stinger and is called a Black Hornet. I have points with Cabelas so that seems to be a good choice. I did an enlistment in the Navy working on airplanes and the Super Hornet that they currently use is majestic to me. Also, I ordered 6 Zombie Killers tonight so they will be my next project. Great input from everyone.

 

[buck460XVR]

As a life long archery hunter and enthusiast and a user of crossbows for hunting for the last 8 or so years, I can say that yes, it is very much like shooting a rifle....but all the rules of archery hunting still apply. I really dont find it THAT much of an advantage. My range extended from 30 yds with a compound to 45 yds with the crossbow.

Same here. New compound bows have the range and accuracy of most high end crossbows. If I was younger, I would still be using a traditional compound bow. But @ 70 years of age, it's not really possible.

 

[sage5907]

Same here. New compound bows have the range and accuracy of most high end crossbows. If I was younger, I would still be using a traditional compound bow. But @ 70 years of age, it's not really possible.

I previously owned a really good Mathews compound bow that was a joy to use but today almost all of my deer hunting is done from a sitting position on the ground in natural cover, and it's really hard to use a compound bow like that. I think this crossbow will give me a whole new life in bow hunting. One of my evening set-ups October 1st will be from a prone position where I will lay in the same position for about 3 hours waiting for my target to appear. I'll be able to lay on my back or side to kill the time but when the opportunity comes I will change to a prone position for the shot. The result will be worth the effort if I can pull it off. Getting the wind to cooperate and putting up with the gnats and other bugs will be much harder than waiting for the shot.

 

[archeryrob]

Can you use a turkey chair? I have hidden in them with just grass for cover. That is way more comfortable than any chair or tree stand and better than the ground.

 

[sage5907]

Can you use a turkey chair? I have hidden in them with just grass for cover. That is way more comfortable than any chair or tree stand and better than the ground.

That's a good suggestion but for me it would be a short term suggestion. There are two problems. First, I am looking for a long term solution and given the silhouette of a person in a upright chair no matter how short it is and even if I wear full camo including a face mask and even with back cover I would see several animals the first day, about half as many the second day, and the third day probably none. Secondly, the females and young animals come out early in the evening and I would have to spend an hour or more with them rubbernecking around waiting for the prize of the evening to show. I wear eye glasses and I would have to constantly shield my glasses so they wouldn't shine. When I am looking I normally hold my gloved hand over my face and look through split fingers. It will be easier for me to just lay down on the ground in a shallow ditch so I am 100 percent out of sight and to lift my head slightly to see what is happening. I can raise up and move my bow into position when the time is right. Animals where I live don't act the way they do on TV. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[sage5907]

Well, another week has gone by and I have changed to the Black Eagle Zombie Slayer arrows that weighs 435 grains with a 125 grain field point. After much shooting I am very happy with the arrows. I bought six arrows and checked each arrow to make sure it would hit a one inch dot at 30 yards. Five arrows made the cut the first shot, and I rotated the nock a third of a turn on the last arrow and it hit the center of the dot. I put a down mark on the arrow that was changed to make sure I placed the correct vane down. The mark shows in the picture. I quickly found out I didn't have a good target for broadheads so I ordered a Walk On Robin Cube to solve that problem and I also ordered some of the Magnus Black Hornet 125 grain broadheads to give them a try. Hurrying to get ready for October 1st. Really getting into this.View attachment 1165913