Romanian 7.62 x 54R ammunition issues.

[J.A.D.]

Bought 2 tins of surplus Romanian Steel Core rounds from my local Fleet Farm. I thought, Hey, what a deal! I proceeded to put them through my PSL, which digested them just fine... At first.

These are 148 grain rounds, nothing special, just military surplus. Today I was at the range, with my wife no less, and before she'd gotten a chance to shoot, there was an ejection problem. Had a stuck casing in the chamber. So after I freed that up, I went to put another round down range, when "CLICK". I cleared the chamber, and ejected the round. Charged the weapon, and "CLICK" again. Did the same thing a third time, and then did a visual inspection. The firing pin had fully engaged, and was not retracting properly.

So I drove an hour home, mad as holy hell thinking that there was something seriously jacked up with the bolt. Got home, disassembled everything. For those who have never disassembled a bolt on an AK family weapon, it's surprisingly easy, and not as Byzantine as you'd think. Two pins, which took a lot of effort to remove, and then everything pretty much came apart, except the firing pin which I could not get loose. I soaked the bolt in Paint Thinner, to get rid of any corrosion, and finally got it loose. When it came loose, a chunk of metal came out with it.

Not sure where the metal came from. Not the slightest clue. It was thick enough to jack up the firing pin, but as to where it came from, that's beyond me. Anyone else have this problem before with a PSL? I'm completely at a loss, because I've never, EVER seen or heard about this type of failure with an AK family bolt. Not to mention the fact that the mystery piece of metal had to come from somewhere, and that's an even bigger mystery to me, as the piece of metal was about half the size of my pinky nail, and it had been bouncing back and forth near the the end of the firing pin. The chamber end, not the trigger end.

One nice thing I discovered though. I polished the bolt carrier, and the bolt itself, gave it plenty of CLP, and it glides perfectly. No hiccups on the traverse. I also managed to clean all the build up and corrosion out of the gas tube this evening.

So, despite the fact that I had a crappy day at the range, I did manage to repair and improve on my PSL.

For those who have a PSL, or AK platform, taking apart the bolt is a pain, but getting it back together is actually pretty easy. In fact, I was so suprised at how easily things went back together, I took it apart 3 times just to make sure I hadn't screwed anything up.

So I guess the lesson I've learned today, is that Ammunition does indeed make a difference, not just in shot groups, but in performance and maintenance issues.

 

[jonnyc]

Uh, what kind of metal? Brass from a primer? Steel from a case rim? Is the piece magnetic?

 

[J.A.D.]

In all honesty I couldn't tell you where it came from. It's not steel as a magnet won't draw it up. It's Aluminum I think. It's not from any of the parts of the weapon itself.

No idea where it came from or what it is.

 

[Deus Machina]

I had some Romanian stuff that was brass-cased. So even if it was a chunk of rim, the magnet wouldn't take it.

This doesn't sound like an ammo issue to me, unless there's crud packaged in with it.

To me, this sounds like 1) a piece of firing pin or other crud that snuck in through the back, or was left in during assembly, or 2) a primer that ruptured and squeezed through the firing pin hole at some point.

The only other thing I could think of would me some schmutz that got into the magazine, and stuck to the back of a round.

 

[J.A.D.]

Actually, after going to my gun shop the mystery metal was found.

Here's the thing. There are 2 pins that hold the firing pin in place, and the extractor and spring in place. When I took the pin for the extractor out, I noticed that the pin had an end that wasn't flat, but had kind of half twist and cut into it.

It didn't occur to me what it was until I looked at another PSL pin, and saw that their pin was flat on both ends. When I got home I went down to the basement and saw something that looked just like my pin. That something, was a broken drill bit that I had laying on my bench.

Sure enough, I pulled the pin out, and I could see that it was actually an 1/8" drill bit, tapped into place. Apparently the previous owner lost the pin, and or drilled out a new hole and put a hewn down drill bit in its place.

Anger doesn't even begin to cover how I'm feeling about this. So I've ordered a new bolt online. $75.00 out of Ohio, and I should be good as new. The metal shavings that came out of the bolt are likely from the drill job the previous owner did.

New bolt comes with a new firing pin.

 

[caribou]

Its a bolt problem, not ammunition. You would have seen smoke and such from a periced primer, for sure.
I think you nailed tit, a previous owner jack'd with it.

Good luck, I hope the new bolt is the fix.

 

[J.A.D.]

We took it to the range yesterday and I got 59 rounds through it without one hiccup. Then it didn't eject the brass properly. Fired one more round, it was fine.

The thing is, this rifle shoots phenomenally well. Truly one of the most accurate rifles I've ever shot. The bolt seems fine for now, so if it dies a death, at least I'll have a back up. Have seen a lot of Parts Rifles that are PSL's on the web. Not sure why.

Either way, I'm looking forward to the new POSP scope arriving, and fine tuning this.

 

[J.A.D.]

I honestly do not believe it's the ammunition at all now for the simple fact that shards of metal that came out, were bigger than the hole in the bolt where the firing pin comes through.

I wish I could find the previous owner and dispense a proper beating. One other little thing. The fore stock was leeching cosmolene after it got hot.

I also do not recommend Tuul Ammunition. It is extremely dirty. It says it's non-corrosive, but it was dirtier than the Romanian Ammunition that I have.

 

[wristtwister]

I haven't shot my PSL for a while, but I shoot both it and my Mosin Nagant bench rifle quite often, and the problems you encountered are both "unusual" and "normal" at the same time. Unfortunately, the 7.62X54 sometimes has a tendency to be finicky about what it allows to make it go bang... too much penetration of the firing pin, and it will shatter the caps and you'll get pieces into the firing pin channel of the bolts on both guns.

My Mosin is the most susceptible to this, but the PSL will do it too with some of the old commie ammo. The more modern loadings, however, tend to function fine.

Working in a gun shop, we see people do things like your drill bit experience all the time. I call them HAGS... (half-assed gunsmiths) who think they can cut off a finishing nail head and make a firing pin. They don't know anything about tolerences, head-spacing, heat-treating, spring rates, etc... they just "figger out a way to fix this thang".... and then trade it off or sell it before it blows up and leave the next guy to deal with the problems.

Any time you start working on one of these guns, you need to make sure you have an exploded drawing and that you have the right number of parts, too... I've found springs that were supposed to have followers, but didn't... and followers stuck in springs where they weren't supposed to go... so make sure you have the right parts and in the right places.

You'll love the ranging scope. I set up a B-27 target at 5'7" at my gun club , and my PSL will gather all it's shots in the head of the target without a problem at 300 yards. I hate to hear you're having trouble with yours, because they're a hoot to shoot, and are as accurate as most bolt guns I've shot.

If you need extra parts, Centerfire systems has parts kits at several different prices depending on what you need, but once you get this puppy up and running, it might just turn out to be your favorite gun.

WT

 

[mgkdrgn]

I am confused .... you find a chunk of metal rattling around inside your bolt ... and you blame your ammo?

 

[Adam123]

I am confused .... you find a chunk of metal rattling around inside your bolt ... and you blame your ammo?

I read this thread and that is not at all what I gathered from it. Initially, it did seem as if he was looking at the ammo as possibly being the problem, but upon further investigation, he found that shoddy bolt work was to blame - I.E. a drill bit used as a pin. He explains this in post # 5.

 

[J.A.D.]

Okay folks, here's the latest news on my rifle.

I was with a buddy, and we were shooting. I figured, since the firing pin / bolt issue was dealt with, I'd try running more of the Romanian ammunition through the rifle again, because after a conversation with a gunsmith, they seemed to think it was just something intrinsic to my rifle, and the ammunition should be fine, because after all, it was ammunition made to go with this rifle.

I put about 25 rounds through the rifle, and it quit functioning. I disassembled, and of course, the firing pin was stuck again, and not traversing the whole way. I spent a half hour cleaning, and digging crap out of the hole, and more of the same metal shavings I found the first time, were there. They looked like pieces of blown out primer, because this ammunition was really smoky when it discharged.

I got about 7 more rounds out before the last one made a really loud bang, and the trigger did something odd that made my finger hurt. Took it apart, and the firing pin was seized up completely. Called it a day, and went home.
Got it home, thinking I could disassemble the bolt again, and clean it out. Went to take the pins out, and they wouldn't budge at all. I soaked in break free, and wd 40. Used laquer thinner, and paint thinner as a solvent to remove any and all other crud. Got a pair of pliers and tried to turn the firing pin a little so see if I could work it free, and it pulled completely loose. It was bent up badly. We're talking a 1/4" variance bend, and the end of it was smashed to holy hell. I have NEVER seen anything like this.

I'm using 148 grain light ball ammo for this rifle. The last round that fired had a crack in the casing that I noticed.

I ordered a new bolt assembly, which should be here tomorrow. I'm taking it to my gun smith to see if we can check the head space on the bolt. I need to make sure this rifle is operational, because my wife will kill me if she can't shoot it too. Seriously. I taught my wife how to shoot with this rifle, and she fell in love with it.

I got my scope zeroed on this thing, and my god it shoots better than just about any rifle I've ever owned. Save for the ammunition issues, I could not say anything bad. It consistently puts a 2 to 3" group at 300 yards with minimal fuss. I LOVE this rifle, and it broke my heart when that firing pin was bent to heck. All of the serial numbers match on this rifle, and that's why I'm really hoping we can just swap the firing pin, and upgrade to some better ammunition for it.

 

[CnRnut]

Sorry,missed a line in your last post.
Bring it to a smith to get it headspaced

 

[J.A.D.]

Okay folks, here's the FINAL word on my rifle.

I took it to the smith, and he saw that the rail for the bolt and extractor was dinged up pretty good. He suspects there was a hot load in the mix.

I have a new bolt. He checked the headspace, and the rifle functions better than ever. Cycles perfectly. put 80 rounds through it today without one failure. Told me to stay away from the Romanian surplus and fire the good stuff. Not because he's trying to upsell me, but because the rifle will perform better. So, that's where I'm at.

 

[Murphy4570]

One of those milsurp rounds could have been double charged I suppose back when the stuff was made in the '70s-80s.

Caveat Emptor.

 

[mgkdrgn]

I know the milsurp stuff is cheap ... but it's a pretty heavy load ... meant to punch holes in Nazi's at 2000 meters. I only need to punch holes in paper at 100 or 200 yards.

Then there is the whole corrosive primer thing.

Solution? Reload! I bought a bunch of Privi Partizan to shoot, and saved the brass. Now I reload the kind of load I want to shoot by pulling apart the military stuff and reloading the powder/bullet into the Privi brass. Putting just 3/4 of the powder back makes for a very pleasant plinking load that is easier on me AND the rifle.

Want a really mild, but accurate load? Try a 30 Cal carbine bullet (mine are lead cast, 115 gr) over about 7.5 gr of green dot. Just a pleasure to shoot, and no need to see my orthopedic surgeon the next day!

 

[Nugilum]

Hey, J.A.D.,
I own some 91/30's. Willing to sell your ammo?

 

[jdub4]

PSL

I am pretty sure you have to check headspace with a new bolt. A new bolt carrier won't change headspace but a new bolt will.

Another word of advise. I don't mean to be harsh but you, I mean.... psssshhhh...

You didn't even look down the bore after the first click? Maybe you should take up a new hobby....

 

[cthulhufan]

Okay folks, here's the latest news on my rifle.

I was with a buddy, and we were shooting. I figured, since the firing pin / bolt issue was dealt with, I'd try running more of the Romanian ammunition through the rifle again, because after a conversation with a gunsmith, they seemed to think it was just something intrinsic to my rifle, and the ammunition should be fine, because after all, it was ammunition made to go with this rifle.

I put about 25 rounds through the rifle, and it quit functioning. I disassembled, and of course, the firing pin was stuck again, and not traversing the whole way. I spent a half hour cleaning, and digging crap out of the hole, and more of the same metal shavings I found the first time, were there. They looked like pieces of blown out primer, because this ammunition was really smoky when it discharged.

I got about 7 more rounds out before the last one made a really loud bang, and the trigger did something odd that made my finger hurt. Took it apart, and the firing pin was seized up completely. Called it a day, and went home.
Got it home, thinking I could disassemble the bolt again, and clean it out. Went to take the pins out, and they wouldn't budge at all. I soaked in break free, and wd 40. Used laquer thinner, and paint thinner as a solvent to remove any and all other crud. Got a pair of pliers and tried to turn the firing pin a little so see if I could work it free, and it pulled completely loose. It was bent up badly. We're talking a 1/4" variance bend, and the end of it was smashed to holy hell. I have NEVER seen anything like this.

I'm using 148 grain light ball ammo for this rifle. The last round that fired had a crack in the casing that I noticed.

I ordered a new bolt assembly, which should be here tomorrow. I'm taking it to my gun smith to see if we can check the head space on the bolt. I need to make sure this rifle is operational, because my wife will kill me if she can't shoot it too. Seriously. I taught my wife how to shoot with this rifle, and she fell in love with it.

I got my scope zeroed on this thing, and my god it shoots better than just about any rifle I've ever owned. Save for the ammunition issues, I could not say anything bad. It consistently puts a 2 to 3" group at 300 yards with minimal fuss. I LOVE this rifle, and it broke my heart when that firing pin was bent to heck. All of the serial numbers match on this rifle, and that's why I'm really hoping we can just swap the firing pin, and upgrade to some better ammunition for it.

Keep us updated.

Yes, indeed the PSL is a hoot to shoot; How the heck can you go wrong with an oversized AK eating 10 round boxes of 7.62x54R? I don't care what anybody says, the PSL is a good service rifle.

I'm floored that you are getting 2-3" at 300. That's fantastic. Is that with some allowance for barrel cool-down or is that a 5 round group with a good, warm barrel?

 

[caribou]

Im thinking with the Firing pin protrusion way the **** outta wack, with what you described above, and the primers overtime were getting smashed, popped and refluxed to get into there.They dont just showup...

I bet the former owner had plenty of that , if you havent yet.

Was the crack across the case head, around the case, up along the case from bottom to top??
Do your other cases have streching or distortion marks ?? How about the primers, are any sticking up and out , or smashed flat, compared to a "normal' strike?

New bolt....then you might have headspace issues, but the bolt you have now is dangerous.

 

[J.A.D.]

Actually, I thought it went without saying that one would check the bore. When you pull the bolt back, it ejects the round. At that point, all I saw was a dented primer the first time, and this being 30 plus year old ammunition, my first thought was it was a bad round.

Before I took this thing shooting again, with the new bolt, I had the headspace checked, and the new bolt, and firing pin work actually better than the original.

 

[J.A.D.]

I usually allow the rifle to cool down between targets. The maximum I shoot is 10 rounds per target, and those rounds are spaced out, not quick shots. I am trying for accuracy, not speed at this point.

 

[J.A.D.]

To : Caribou. The last casing that ejected had a crack that ran from the edge of the top, to midway down the round.

Since I've gotten the new bolt installed, and headspace checked, the rifle no longer has these performance issues. It cycles perfectly, and ejects perfectly. It launches brass about 30 feet which annoys the holy heck out of other shooters at the range. It's a lot of fun to uncase that rifle, and go shooting. A friend is selling his Finnish Mosin Nagant to me, so I have a use for this Romanian ammo now.