Rookie AR Questions

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Shelstin

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I think it's time to jump into the AR's a little. I know nothing about them except for the fact I shot an Armalite 30 years ago and thought that it was the coolest thing ever. I was reading the AR build thread and was totally lost with all of the lingo. So, I am just going to ask for help.

I have been involved in shooting since I can remember, and took my first deer when I was a freshman back in the early 70's. I gave the rifle up when I started bowhunting almost 20 years ago. My pistol stock is sufficient for any invasion and defense of my personal property, most likely. When I travel, I usually CC, and I always have one available. I just wanted it noted I am not a newbie to shooting and hunting, just to this platform. Now, I want to add an AR.
The purpose will be to coyote call a bit, shoot some prarie dogs, and shoot against buddies at stupid long ranges when we get too bored. I won't shoot it a lot, probably less than 500 rounds a year. I want a reasonably a priced unit, with a mid level optics. I guess I am wanting an off the shelf, dependable, moderately priced AR. I have looked at Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt and DPMS to name a few. Does anyone have any ideas other than what I have?
 
Without getting into brands and such, based on the type of shooting you mentioned, I would tell you to look at a 20" heavy barrel with a fixed stock..
 
Armalite has a decent rep but not the best, they are considered OK but slightly overpriced. Bushmaster and DPMS are owned by Freedom Group, looked at as poorly made with inferior materials, and FG tried to sell of both when the craziness started instead of sticking by gun owners. STAY AWAY from both. Colt is great and can be found at most Walmarts now, they are the gold standard. Bravo Company Machine is another well respected maker, as good as Colt. My BCM is leaps and bounds better than my Bushmaster was. Palmetto State Armory is another but unless you are well versed you could end up with a less than stellar AR like one from their hated ptac line. If you have a friend with knowledge a PSA with a cold hammer forged FN barrel is damn nice and very well made, I have one in 20" and I love it. I should mention Daniel Defense but they are more expensive and I can't say they are $500 or more better than Colt or BCM. Smith and Wesson make an AR, they're not looked at as good as Colt or BCM but aren't bad. They are about the same as Armalite but more in line with cost to quality. They cost the same as Colt and BCM most times, so why not go Colt or BCM?

You can get a Colt or BCM for the same price (or less sometimes) as Bushmaster or DPMS (around a $1000, but you can get BCMs for less like $850 sometimes). A PSA for less than that but again, you have to know what to look for. You are just starting out so stay away from bargain AR's with missing parts too. Learn the AR in it's whole configuration, not some sportical or sport (sorry guys, no more 5r rifling!) that's missing chrome lining, forward assist, and the dust cover. I started with a Bushmaster 10 years ago and it put me off ARs for years because it was a jam-o-matic turd.

Some will say "but he's only going to put 500 rounds through it a year, he doesn't need a Colt". I say "why not get a rifle made with better materials and testing for the same price"? If you only shoot 500 a year it just means you won't have to replace it for around 20 years if you go on the low end of how long an AR lasts which is 10,000 rounds or so. My dad's 1993 Colt Sporter is still going strong after 20 years, we shot it last week. He's never been sorry for buying it. You can bet that the turd Bushmasters that my brother and I bought made us sorry. A big plus is a Colt or BCM will retain their value better over a Bushmaster or DPMS if you decide that ARs aren't your cup of tea. I hope this helped, I wish someone would have told me these things before my first AR purchase!
 
I too would suggest a 20" barrel with a fixed stock for what you want, but I would say build it yourself. It's pretty easy to do, and once you have one AR you'll more than likely want at least another one. Having the tools and know-how will make future builds and maintenance easier. Besides, what better way to understand the rifle than to put it together yourself?
 
Finding unopinionated info on various AR brands is all but a lost cause. EVERYONE who has one, shot one, looked at one in a shop, or saw one in a magazine seems to have an idea of whats "best". I personally went the "bargin" (at the time, anyway) route and purchased a Doublestar carbine. It didn't cost me $1000 (closer to half that), but is accurate, dependable, and I've yet to have any sort of malfunction with it. Its harvested two deer on the two trips its been hunting. No, its not all "mil-spec" and "tacti-cooled" out, but it goes bang EVERY time I pull the trigger, puts the bullets where I want them to go, and has never given me any reason not to just love it. Another option, though one disparaged in an above post, is the Smith and Wesson Sport. Nope, it doesn't have a forward assist (which I have never used on my rifle to date) nor does it have a dust cover. It has the 5R rifling also disparaged above, but read the reviews found from a wide variety of sources online...A good many people consider the S&W Sport a perfect "beginner's AR". They're reliable, accurate, and well made. For a good many of us, things like dust covers and forward assists are hardly necessary. We take our rifles hunting and to the range, we don't drag them through the deserts of Iraq. The truth is, most civilian shooters really have no need for dust covers and FA's. If you go with the S&W sport, and decide that ypou absolutely MUST have a forward assist and dust cover, you can always purchase another upper for your lower that has those features. My guess is that it would never come to that, however, as they are largely cosmetic features on a civilian range/hunting/ plinking gun.

Don't buy into the idea that you have spend $1k to get an AR that will serve all of your purposes just fine. "Budget" AR's like the Smith and my Doublestar work just fine for a LOT of shooters. Not everyone plays GI Joe, and not everyone's rifle is going to be dumped in the sand or mud on a regular basis. As far as finding Colts as cheap as other brands.........good luck. I've yet to see a Colt AR under $1k, but have seen DPMS and Bushmaster variations sold for 50% of that....brand new, in the box. Just my 2 cents...
 
Figure out a total budget for the rifle and the glass and buy the best you can afford for both items. For such a low yearly round count any of the normal names will work just fine.

I will echo the suggestion of a 20" barrel in the profile of your liking and a fixed stock. Since you are running optics I would not worry about irons of any sort so I'd look for a A4 upper and a barrel with no front sight.

Since you mention hunting, have you given any thought to an AR10 style rifle?
 
Do youself a huge favor and check out the Rock River Arms Predator Pursuit. My first build utilized a RRA bull varmint barrel. If I had it to do over again, I'd use RRA's barrel that they use on their Predator Pursuit.

Friend of mine bought a Predator Pursuit in 2012, and it's scary-accurate. His has the 20" barrel. He shoots one-hole groups, consistently, @ 100 yds, using my bulk-loaded .223 ammo.

Except for your desire to shoot at really long ranges, one of the best buys I know of right now is the Windam @ Joe Bob's @ $749, with free shipping.

http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Win..._FlatTop_w_case_p/gun-windhamr16m4ftt-src.htm

http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/Rock_River_Arms_Predator_Pursuit_Midlength_16_Sta_p/rra-ar1545.htm
 
Coyote and longer distance shooting means setting it up as more a predator rifle than a short barreled carbine. Starting with the caliber, 5.56 will do, but you could move to an alternate which won't really cost much more in the way of ammo @500 rounds a year. The issue there is magazine availability - be careful you don't spec yourself into a corner trying to find magazines, and alternate calibers pretty much invalidate using Pmags. Since it's longer range, it also make the .300 BO less than optimal as in supersonic role it's still not a 500 yard gun. For all that - stick to 5.56 and realize that you won't ever find cheap long range or hunting ammo, for some reason the military doesn't want any, so it's all $1 a round like all the other civilian ammo.

That settled, the 20" barrel will deliver more velocity, but a heavy barrel is no guarantee of better accuracy unless you get a high precision one, and that isn't cheap. Just buying a heavy barrel means that's what you got - less machined off the profile. It has nothing to do with actually being better rifled with a precision chamber and a guarantee. A precision rifle isn't made with a no name barrel, it should be listed in the specs as a precision makers by name. It will also raise the cost another $200-300.

Flat top upper gets the scope mounted, a full rail handguard is nearly useless dead weight as you can't bridge the scope mounts onto it. Most scope makers will void the warranty, which should also give you an idea of just how flexible a "free float" handguard really is. It's not wrong to have one, tho - mount the sling to it, and you flex the handguard, not the barrel, keeping the point of aim and impact a ballistic issue of trajectory. Mount a front sight on that rail and you are right back to moving it around, so, don't. It's no longer a free float if you do. Most of the better free floats today do not have rails, they use slots and keyholes to mount pieces of rail and are substantially lighter.

Regardless of all the hype, nearly anybody's upper, lower, and bolt assembly will do. The arguments over testing and being milspec only apply to military issue weapons for the simplest of reasons: It's not milspec unless a government inspector approves and accepts them for government use. Colt doesn't do all that for a civilian rifle unless there's no extra cost and it's no money lost to them - many claim they do, but there's is zero documentation to prove it. They don't even forge their own platters for the uppers and lowers, so "Colt builds them better" should be considered in full light of day.

Fixed stock or not, it doesn't really do much for accuracy despite the price tags attached to the high end ones. I suppose a trained sniper with years of shooting under their elbows could tell, but they could shoot nearly as well without - it's skill factor, not gear.

Same for grip. Lots of styles, not really much in the way of improvement. It's NOT a pistol grip, you rest the weapon on your shoulder and off hand, the grip shouldn't be getting torqued around. It's really a rest for the hand and it's all about pulling the trigger straight back. Trapdoors, swells, whatever, are mostly style, not function for the shooting hand.

Trigger - all the expensive triggers have a travel adjustment screw, which is why they don't have horrible creep over a lot of rough sear. Second, they tend to have lighter pull, but that is a range only user when it's 2 pounds. For traveling across rough country for coyotes, a well made "tactical" trigger in 6 pounds reduces the inadvertent discharge and the coyote won't notice any difference.

If you want to mount a bipod, then the free float handguard would need holes for the rail strip there, most do. A issue front sight isn't necessary, and a low rise gas block would fit fine under a full length handguard. It gets the bipod forward and the assembly has less wiggle for longer distance shooting.

If Brand is important, then pick whatever and pay the premium to have their name engraved on it rather than some other that comes off the same CNC machine. All the lower does is hold a couple of pins, a grip screw, and the magazine, it really has little to do with accuracy - same as the upper. It's all about the barrel, extension, and bolt lockup, so buy the barrel that is guaranteed to be accurate and you will be a lot further ahead than marketing that promises it.
 
I'd also suggest looking at Windham Weaponry. I've got the SRC and it's been great over the past year. They also make the Varmint Exterminator which sounds like it would suit your purposes very well. 20 inch fluted barrel, free float handguard, Compass Lake chamber (Supposedly more accurate with 5.56 and .223 than the 5.56 chamber is. Both are safe to fire in it.) and includes scope risers. The one in snow camo is very likely to end up in my safe in the future. If you want to spend a bit more then I'd look seriously at the Rock River coyote rifles. I've heard a lot of good about them, especially in terms of accuracy.
 
I have three AR's, two of which will shoot well under 1". That said, I'm far from an AR guru. I just like accurate rifles, and these happen to fit the bill. My AR that I'm taking coyote hunting tomorrow is an original Bushmaster Varminter (now Windham).

Personally, I'd look at look at the RRA Pursuit or particularly Stag Varminter. Stag has an accuracy guarantee and would fit your criteria and budget. IMO, accuracy has a LOT to do with barrel quality. My two accurate AR's have either an air gauged match barrel (.223) or Shilen Ultra Match (.358 WSSM). This past fall we were getting first shot hits on prairie dogs at 300 yards+.

If you get a varminter, you're way ahead of the curve because the ones I've seen have good triggers. This is paramount if you're looking for target type accuracy and it's a lot cheaper to buy right up front. My .358 has a Jewell trigger, but I had to spend north of $100 to get it.
 
Build your own from exactly the parts you want. It's easy. You should be able to find all the needed components at any large gun show.
 
RRA heavy barreld rifles are very hard to better shot of a full on custom . They are fully capable of .300 groups with heavier factory match ammo. The scope is where you will spend some bucks. It would be nice to know what size groups you hope to shoot at what distance . These rra heavy 223 wylde barrels flat out shoot and capable of sub 2" at 500 yards with good glass like a Sightron SIII 8-32 but may cost as much as the rifle.
 
Build your own from exactly the parts you want. It's easy. You should be able to find all the needed components at any large gun show.

+1. It also then let's you understand how to fix your rifle if you do encounter an issue with it. I have an HDA-16 (ATI's stab at a mid-level carbine) that has real strong internals that had some issues that locked up the gun, but heading home it took ~10 minutes to fix, since I was building another AR and knew what it had to look like. Sure beats saying, "uh-oh- it broke, time to mail it in..."
 
Thanks for the response. I received some really good info and appreciate it very much. I appreciate the time some of you spent to write up a reply. I will start looking into suggestions.
 
You may want to look at the Wal-Mart Sig M400.

Comes with a 'prismatic 3x scope' that illuminates in 5 levels and 2 colors which is fun (if the battery is dead it works fine with black reticle), and is graduated. I'm far far from an AR guy, but from what I've seen it looks and shoots well compared to a Colt, and costs much less.
 
While you are at Wal-Mart checking out the Sig see if they have a Colt in the case. Last weekend a guy showed up at the range with a new Colt AR.
He said he had just picked it up at Wal-Mart. We showed him how to shoot it and got him on paper. He was Happy Happy Happy. It was a sweet rifle.
I was almost tempted to go into a Wal-Mart. Almost. :rolleyes:
 
I have to stay under 1000 including optics. Shooting distances longer than hunting distance (300 yards or so) is not important, just fun and doesn't mean a damn thing. It's kind of like shooting my bow 125 yards just to see if I can hit my deer target when somebody else shows up to shoot, ya know? Another newbie question.....what is the purpose of forward assist or a dust cover.
 
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