critter
Member
Anybody have any idea how long it would take to get a letter from S&W (Roy Jinks) on the history of a revolver? Thanks.
S&W letter
- Thread starter critter
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Might be quite a while:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...catalogId=11101&content=25301§ionId=10504
rcmodel
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/...catalogId=11101&content=25301§ionId=10504
rcmodel
MrBill120
Member
S&W mailed my request back! They raised their price from $30 to $50....I wish the S&W website said so.....I would've mailed my request in earlier as opposed to printing the form and letting it sit here on my desk.
critter
Member
Thanks. I just got in under the price increase but it looks like it may be a while before I hear back from them. They did cash my check!
cmannie
member
MrBill...
They did the same to Me....Sent My form and check back...No Jinks letters until Oct 15th...
They should have "put Us on the stack" then just sent a letter requesting the additional $20 per letter...I would have gladly sent the difference...
They did the same to Me....Sent My form and check back...No Jinks letters until Oct 15th...
They should have "put Us on the stack" then just sent a letter requesting the additional $20 per letter...I would have gladly sent the difference...
tinygnat219
Member
Well, it used to be a value. Now... I am not so sure.
MrBill120
Member
...for $30 I'd request one...but now for $50?? I don't know...
XavierBreath
Member
Compared to the price of a factory letter from Colt, a S&W letter is still a bargain. Remember that Mr. Jinks is a one man operation. If you have an original S&W in an unusual or rare configuration, a Jinks letter is still one of the best investments you can make. If you want to letter an ordinary, commonplace gun, then it just got a little more expensive.
This is a popular discussion of late. I am in the camp that $50 is high. I know Colt charges more. So what? So they are WAY high. I have yet to get a letter with anything truly valuable or useful. All my guns were sent to hardware stores or police departments. Big whoop.
At $30 I kept getting useless letters and felt stupid for doing it. Decision is easy now. At $50 I am out.
Maybe if you have a really rare gun and you know it's rare the letter may be worthwhile. I would still letter a Registered Magnum hoping it went to Melvin Purvis. But for 95% of the guns out there, IMO not worth $50 just to be told the shipping date.
I have received my last letter from Roy.
At $30 I kept getting useless letters and felt stupid for doing it. Decision is easy now. At $50 I am out.
Maybe if you have a really rare gun and you know it's rare the letter may be worthwhile. I would still letter a Registered Magnum hoping it went to Melvin Purvis. But for 95% of the guns out there, IMO not worth $50 just to be told the shipping date.
I have received my last letter from Roy.
Exactly correct. S&W was getting inundated with requests to find out info on M29-3 and M4506 and all sorts of newer models. The history dept is a one man show at S&W, Mr Roy Jinks. Even the WWII stuff rarely calls for a letter as most of the info is available in the S&W book.
The $50 charge is still reasonable, for a gun worth lettering.
The "one man show" point is often made. My thinking (call me kooky) is that if this service is too popular and demanding for one man then how about HIRING AN ASSISTANT??????
There's no doubt in my mind that the price increase is to discourage letter requests. But I think a better plan would be limit research requests to a cut-off date to lessen the load, like maybe nothing made after 1970 or something like that.
But, I don't run the thing and as of now I no longer use the service so what I think is irrelevant.
There's no doubt in my mind that the price increase is to discourage letter requests. But I think a better plan would be limit research requests to a cut-off date to lessen the load, like maybe nothing made after 1970 or something like that.
But, I don't run the thing and as of now I no longer use the service so what I think is irrelevant.
Gator
Member
Yes it is! A letter from Roy turned a $500 gun into a $3500 gun for me.
XavierBreath
Member
SaxonPig, I'm not sure, but I don't think Mr. Jinks is on the S&W payroll, although he is authorized as their historian to use their stationary for his letters. The money he makes from the service he provides is derived from the fee charged.
If so, then keeping the fee $30 and then hiring an assistant that he would have to pay to decrease his workload is not economically viable.
If so, then keeping the fee $30 and then hiring an assistant that he would have to pay to decrease his workload is not economically viable.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Roy Jinks retired from his job at S&W many years ago. He is getting up there in age now.
But during one of S&W's fall on hard times, Bangor Punta bought the company from the Wesson family in 1965.
The company was being restructured by the foreign owners in 1970, and the old Springfield S&W factory was demolished.
Bangor Punta also purchased 54% of Taurus of Brazil, and gave a lot of S&W tooling & design to them.
All the old company records were headed for the landfill, when Roy was given an opportunity to rescue them.
Were it not for Roy Jinks, there would be no S&W records today!
The rest is history.
http://www.eric-goldscheider.com/id92.html
But one has to wonder how much longer Roy will be around & kicking?
And what will happen to the S&W records after he is unable to continue, or is gone?
rcmodel
But during one of S&W's fall on hard times, Bangor Punta bought the company from the Wesson family in 1965.
The company was being restructured by the foreign owners in 1970, and the old Springfield S&W factory was demolished.
Bangor Punta also purchased 54% of Taurus of Brazil, and gave a lot of S&W tooling & design to them.
All the old company records were headed for the landfill, when Roy was given an opportunity to rescue them.
Were it not for Roy Jinks, there would be no S&W records today!
The rest is history.
http://www.eric-goldscheider.com/id92.html
But one has to wonder how much longer Roy will be around & kicking?
And what will happen to the S&W records after he is unable to continue, or is gone?
rcmodel
rswartsell
Member
rcmodel,
I ran upon the answer to this on the Smith and Wesson Forum. An organization called The Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation has already begun the massive job of digitizing these records. Mr. Jinks as well as the S&W author Jim Supica are on the board.
See this link;
http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/540103904/m/5691072913
I ran upon the answer to this on the Smith and Wesson Forum. An organization called The Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation has already begun the massive job of digitizing these records. Mr. Jinks as well as the S&W author Jim Supica are on the board.
See this link;
http://smith-wessonforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/540103904/m/5691072913
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Well that's pretty cool!
I knew Roy Jinks was on the SWHF board, and I should have known Jim S. was too.
I live 30 miles from his place of business, (Old Town Station) and talk to him at every KC collectors show.
BTW: Roy Jinks is one of the nicest people I ever met!
rcmodel
I knew Roy Jinks was on the SWHF board, and I should have known Jim S. was too.
I live 30 miles from his place of business, (Old Town Station) and talk to him at every KC collectors show.
BTW: Roy Jinks is one of the nicest people I ever met!
rcmodel
rswartsell
Member
rcmodel
I was considering whether I should cough up the 100.00 membership to help the effort.
I was considering whether I should cough up the 100.00 membership to help the effort.
XB- I keep hearing he is swamped with requests. Too many for one man to handle. Sounds like time to get some help to me.
If he had help, he wouldn't need to put limits on requests. That was my point.
If he gets 8 per day, that's $240 daily gross. Not bad for supplemental retirement income. Seems like enough to hire an assistant. But what do I know?
Gator- Glad for you. I have spent $600+ to gain nothing. You win... I lose.
If he had help, he wouldn't need to put limits on requests. That was my point.
If he gets 8 per day, that's $240 daily gross. Not bad for supplemental retirement income. Seems like enough to hire an assistant. But what do I know?
Gator- Glad for you. I have spent $600+ to gain nothing. You win... I lose.
The Old Fuff will have a lot more to say later... 
But for the moment he will point out that 50% of the money Roy got for this service was (and is) being contributed to the U.S. International Shooting Team, which among other things represents this country at such events as the Olympic Games.
The records for the most part are in hand-written ledgers, not a computerized database, that go back to the Civil War, and the guns listed therein are not in any particular order – especially numerical order. So each request is a fishing expedition that can be quick, or take hours. Then after the research is completed a letter needs to be written and posted.
Would anyone here do all of that for $15.00 a pop, or perhaps $25.00 now?
I would think that Roy’s knowledge and insights would also be worth something. No one else even comes close. If he were an attorney you’d be looking at something like $300 to $500 per hour. Historians of his caliber are way underpaid.
Obviously he cannot offer a guarantee that each recipient will find out that they’re gun is extraordinarily valuable, and that was never his intent – although lightning does strike sometimes. But if you don’t want to take the risk, don’t play the game.
Generally speaking, anyone that has a lettered gun and decides to sell it – especially on the collectors’ market – can add the cost of the letter to that of the gun, and get their money back. Sometimes they can even make an extra profit, which is something Roy doesn’t.
A similar service at Colt will set you back on average about $100 for each request. Some folks don't know how well off they have been, but when Roy is no longer able to do what he has been doing they may find out.
But for the moment he will point out that 50% of the money Roy got for this service was (and is) being contributed to the U.S. International Shooting Team, which among other things represents this country at such events as the Olympic Games.
The records for the most part are in hand-written ledgers, not a computerized database, that go back to the Civil War, and the guns listed therein are not in any particular order – especially numerical order. So each request is a fishing expedition that can be quick, or take hours. Then after the research is completed a letter needs to be written and posted.
Would anyone here do all of that for $15.00 a pop, or perhaps $25.00 now?
I would think that Roy’s knowledge and insights would also be worth something. No one else even comes close. If he were an attorney you’d be looking at something like $300 to $500 per hour. Historians of his caliber are way underpaid.
Obviously he cannot offer a guarantee that each recipient will find out that they’re gun is extraordinarily valuable, and that was never his intent – although lightning does strike sometimes. But if you don’t want to take the risk, don’t play the game.
Generally speaking, anyone that has a lettered gun and decides to sell it – especially on the collectors’ market – can add the cost of the letter to that of the gun, and get their money back. Sometimes they can even make an extra profit, which is something Roy doesn’t.
A similar service at Colt will set you back on average about $100 for each request. Some folks don't know how well off they have been, but when Roy is no longer able to do what he has been doing they may find out.
rswartsell
Member
Old Fluff, All,
The effort being undertaken by The Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation is to digitize and software manage these records so it will not only preserve them but make finding all of the documents contained for a specific SN come up on command. I suspect there will be no real "replacement" for Mr. Jinks extraordinary knowledge and first hand experience, but the effort is aimed at making vastly more improvement than just hiring assistants. The cost was estimated at $1.5 million for the over 700,000 documents available, the Foundation is a not for profit trying to raise the necessary funds from membership and donation. One can assume that the future for S & W letters may not be as economical as you would like but will continue to be FAR better than Colt.
The effort being undertaken by The Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation is to digitize and software manage these records so it will not only preserve them but make finding all of the documents contained for a specific SN come up on command. I suspect there will be no real "replacement" for Mr. Jinks extraordinary knowledge and first hand experience, but the effort is aimed at making vastly more improvement than just hiring assistants. The cost was estimated at $1.5 million for the over 700,000 documents available, the Foundation is a not for profit trying to raise the necessary funds from membership and donation. One can assume that the future for S & W letters may not be as economical as you would like but will continue to be FAR better than Colt.
I am well aware of the effort going forward to computerize the older S&W records into a viable database, and the expected cost of doing this. I will personally do what I can to support that effort.
However I doubt that this will be accomplished in the short term. The point of my previous post was to explain that Roy has had to do it the hard way, and the charges - both what they were and what they are about to become - were and are very reasonable considering the amount of work that is usually involved.
There are too many people that expect too much for too little. Hopefully by explaining what is involved will help to change that perception.
However I doubt that this will be accomplished in the short term. The point of my previous post was to explain that Roy has had to do it the hard way, and the charges - both what they were and what they are about to become - were and are very reasonable considering the amount of work that is usually involved.
There are too many people that expect too much for too little. Hopefully by explaining what is involved will help to change that perception.
rswartsell
Member
Sorry Old Fluff, I should have known better as you clearly know more about this than I do. I'll support their effort also and I don't believe that the charge is unwarranted at all.
I have the request enveloped up and ready to go for the 15th, regarding the old M&P 1905 Target in http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=394761 which turns out to be a 1910 production. For this piece it's more than worth it, don't think I'd bother for my 686-3 though.
Colt though.....eh.
I have the request enveloped up and ready to go for the 15th, regarding the old M&P 1905 Target in http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=394761 which turns out to be a 1910 production. For this piece it's more than worth it, don't think I'd bother for my 686-3 though.
Colt though.....eh.
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