S&W M&P45 vs Glock 21

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I do hear about a lot of instances of rusting m&p slides. That's quite a concern for me because of the high humidity were I live (this is why I wipe down my guns every time I carry them). I think I'll ask their CS about the issue and see what they say as far as it being a widespread problem. I'm sure I will receive a somewhat disingenuous answer (I'd expect that from all companies), but it may be interesting non the less.
 
While both the S&W M&P45 and Glock 21 are relaible pistols I would oft for the ergonomics of the S&W M&P45. I recently purchased an M&P45 and was very impressed with it's accuracy and reliability - it fed very bullet shape including 185 gr. LSWC's with total reliability.
 
Congrats Legion, you've managed 6 posts on rusty M&Ps. I just googled Glock kb and got 196,000 results in 0.23 seconds. They're all mass produced. They can't all be winners. Those not worthy get sent back and are made right. I've called CS at S&W on numerous ocasions just to ask questions. They speak English and they know their products.
 
I'm a M&P fan. That said I'm also buying 2 G21s; 1-21c and 1-21SFrtf. If S&W had made the 45 Pro or 10mm Pro, I'd be there. But they did'nt. Take a look at all the drop-in coversions you can do with the 21s somewhere down the road, and never look back. Have fun, no matter what you buy you can always buy another!! :what:
 
Win-Win, a list of plus and minus points on these two guns would be equal. Buy the one that fits you better.
 
Just given ya flack, legion; ),

While I've yet to sip the Kool Aid I do readily admit that Glock makes an outstanding pistol. Anyone who says differently must have something stronger than Kool-Aid on the brain.
 
While I've yet to sip the Kool Aid I do readily admit that Glock makes an outstanding pistol. Anyone who says differently must have something stronger than Kool-Aid on the brain.
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Such as the dogmatic views of a few 1911 snobs of past and present. I pity the people that can't make an unbiased decision on the next gun to purchase. That sounds really disfunctional to me.
 
David E: said:
If the Glock, consider the 21-SF...
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I own a 21sf and love it. It is one of the most reliable guns in my collection along with the Glock 27. It stays loaded by my bed at night. The SF is perfect for me because I like to add a Pachmayr slip on grip to my guns. With the sf I was able to do that, so now it feels perfect to me. I shoot it better at 25 yards than any other gun I own except my Taurus Judge Ultra-Lite loaded with Hornady XTP ammo (go figure).

When you read the internet you see where the big Glocks feel like bricks. The sf with a grip added feels like heaven in a gun...if that is possible. Of course you might want to take all of this with a grain of salt because I say that I can shoot my Judge @ 25 yards in 3" groups. The internet says that is impossible with that "gimmick" gun. So either I am an anomaly or just lying. :uhoh: As we say in Georgia "And that ain't no lie". ;)
 
I have pretty good sized hands, mainly just long fingers. I find that the Glock 21 grip fits my hand just fine. It fills my hand better than my glock 17. Such a hard decision, I'm starting to lean more toward the glock 21. Though eventually I'll probably own both. :)
 
I know nothing about the S&W MP 45, but I made my own comparison a while back, between the G21 (which I already owned) and a Springfield XD 45. All these polymer frame guns that are coming out are in some way derivative of the Glock, with just enough different features to hopefully isolate a market segment for a particular manufacturer.

I shot the G21 and the XD 45 for a whole summer, and found that 1) they are both well made, 2) they are both reliable, and 3) they are both accurate, and 4) I can shoot either equally well.

I concluded that the G21 was simpler, specifically has fewer parts and is easier to clean and maintain than the XD. I sold the XD.

Having never fired the MP 45 or even seen one in the plastic & iron, I can nevertheless theorize that I would probably arrive at exactly the same findings as above, and still end up with the Glock.
 
Skylerbone said:
Congrats Legion, you've managed 6 posts on rusty M&Ps. I just googled Glock kb and got 196,000 results in 0.23 seconds. They're all mass produced. They can't all be winners.
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My M&P does not readily rust like the defective ones do, and S&W will gladly fix the latter.

By the way, even Glocks can rust:

http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/rusty-tales/46728-think-you-got-rust.html
http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/rusty-tales/46728-think-you-got-rust-4.html#post743574
http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/rusty-tales/46728-think-you-got-rust-6.html#post852438

http://gunlovers.19.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?p=15805&sid=bc3ad34e5edf9126e9575163f442baa4#15805

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192730

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=717514&postcount=15

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=317655

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1263830

http://pistolsmith.com/glock-pistols/1956-glocks-do-rust.html

http://www.545ar.com/g19rust2.jpg

Skylerbone said:
Those not worthy get sent back and are made right.
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Or as the first linked thread above shows, Glock might generously offer to sell you a replacement. ;)

Just having a little fun. :evil: Both are great guns, but they're not perfect and will still have issues sometimes.
 
Answer is the same as others. Both are fine weapons. The G21 has been around for a long time and works well. But the M&P and XD .45's are usually a better fit for folks with small to medium hands. Fit is a big consideration. Proper fit allows for better shooting. Look at the 21 SF also. Not a hugh difference but just enough of a difference to make it a good choice for some people. No bad choice here. Just what fits you the best.
 
I own 2 21's and a 30.

But, if I buy another .45 it will either be a 21 SF or a M&P.

I do not think you can go wrong either way. Shoot both, and then decide.

It is a strong draw to want to keep the same platform, but give both a try and then decide.
 
I have shot many Glocks including the G21. I currently own the G19 and G26 due to my hand size and that they fit my hand well. I used to own a G30 and found it was too bulky for my hands.

A couple weeks ago I had the opportunity to check out a semi-used M&P45 (all black no thumb safety variant). I tried out the gun with all the backstraps and found the small backstrap makes it feel like I am holding a 1911 (which is what I had started shooting with years ago, still have both of them) so I made the logical choice and bought it. I have run various rounds through it that would not cycle in a G30 without any failures.

The choice is yours. I buy pistols with ergonomics in mind. What may fit my hand may not fit yours. If the Glock works out and you like it, then by all means go for it. If you find that the M&P is the victor in this decision then purchase it.
 
A couple days ago I purchased a S&W M&P9C for my wife. Within the first 50 rounds one of the white dots for the rear sight dropped out. Lame. I put some white out in its place and it looks good as knew, but to pay $534 for a gun and have one of the white dots drop out is ridiculous. Is this a common problem with the M&Ps? Everything else about the gun is great (and makes me want an M&P45), I've just never had this happen before though. I did notice that the gun in the instruction manual curiously has no white dots (the recesses are empty). I'm not sure if that's an indicator. ;)
 
The white dots are just paint, occasionally a part won't be fully degreased/painted when it's too cold etc. I've seen paint on just about every brand of sight crack/yellow, never seen an entire paint dot drop out of the recess.
 
I own and have been issued G21, G21SF as well as the M&P. By a considerable amount, I prefer the Glock.
 
Ben86 said:
A couple days ago I purchased a S&W M&P9C for my wife. Within the first 50 rounds one of the white dots for the rear sight dropped out. Lame. I put some white out in its place and it looks good as knew, but to pay $534 for a gun and have one of the white dots drop out is ridiculous. Is this a common problem with the M&Ps?
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Honestly, this is the first instance I've ever heard about, although a quick web search reveals a disturbing number of posts in various forums regarding the subject (albeit some of them may be duplicates by the same person). :confused: I've put thousands of rounds through my M&P40, some of which are on the hot side, and the white dots in its sights seem fine. There's some crud on them now, though, which I've never bothered to clean, and I figure I'll have to clean and eventually touch them up someday if the paint gets brittle and cracks from shooting and the passage of time (if I get some cleaner on them by accident and other such things).

It's hardly the most serious problem that any gun could have, although something should be done to address it. For all we know, it could be a new issue that nobody at S&W expected when they decided to change vendors for the white paint, for example (hypothetical). In your place, I'd let Smith & Wesson's customer service department know about it in order to help other owners in the future, and then I'd check the other dots for stability and preemptively fix them myself if I feel that it's prudent. It could be worse--at least the sights are made of steel rather than plastic. While most folks have no complaints about the plastic sights on Glocks (some are 20+ years old and still going strong), plenty are unhappy with them (look it up), and a few such sights have even broken off (rare but it happens, especially when the gun is dropped).

Ben86 said:
Everything else about the gun is great (and makes me want an M&P45), I've just never had this happen before though. I did notice that the gun in the instruction manual curiously has no white dots (the recesses are empty). I'm not sure if that's an indicator. ;)
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Yeah, they actually fired more than a mag or two through that gun, so that's probably what happened. ;) While this is a bit disappointing, luckily it's easy to fix. And the black parts make a pretty decent backup, too. :)
 
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GLOCK has fixed the problem with -- --

"Man-hands" vs "little-hands". But I do really see the quantum move the S&W has made in its new offering. (I wish that GLOCK had made that move towards "perfection"!! I have large hands, and I can balance-fire a G-21 33 rd magazine as fast as a full auto....in about 2 seconds, on-target. Even had a range officer ask to inspect my G-21 for F/A select fire. As for ergonomics being a problem with target acquisition, try my fool-proof method: FRONT SIGHT -- REAR SIGHT -- SQUEEZE -- REPEAT IF NEEDED.
 
The comparison of the M&P 45 and the G21/21SF is a popular one at the moment, it seems, and for good reason.

In another forum's thread on this topic I posted the following info regarding likes & dislikes of the M&P 45:

Off the top of my head, as an armorer ...

Likes:

Replaceable grip & palm swell inserts
Beveled slide for easier holstering
Steel sub-chassis (to reinforce frame)
Coil pins (to secure L/B & Sear Housing to sub-chassis, distribute force)
Replaceable frame rails (w/o having to replace frame)
Steel Sear Housing Block
Heavy duty extractor (dimensions, height of hook & front shoulder)
Heavy duty slide rails
Self-centering frame rails (rocker rails) as wear occurs
Heavy duty slide dustcover (versus guide ring on Glock if dropped onto hard surface)
Easily grasped slide serrations
Steel sights
Trigger (revolver-like)
Stainless steel recoil spring assembly
Through-hardened stainless steel for slide & barrel
Teflon treated mag springs
Steel mag bodies
Option of mag safety which is simpler than 3rd gen design
Option of thumb safety
Reversible mag catch


Dislikes:
Solid extractor pins (would prefer roll pin like on the .45's)
Use of slave pin to align trigger bar & slide stop lever assembly (minor annoyance)
Small spring plate under rear sight (unlike larger one used in 3rd gen .45's)
Light effort regarding thumb safety engagement
Lack of plain stainless finish option on slide & barrel

Since I train for defensive shooting and not sporting venues, I shoot to trigger recovery and not trigger reset. The initial .3" rest-to-fire trigger pull and the subsequent approx .14" reset is not an issue for me (S&W specs).

Both of my M&P triggers lightened up and smoothed out considerably after shooting. My M&P 45 started out giving me averages between 8 1/2 - 9+ lbs NIB, on the heavy end of the expected 7 lbs +/- 2 lbs range for the .45's, but when I checked it after more than 2,500 rounds I was seeing averaged readings in the 5 1/2 - 6 lbs range (stock).

Now, regarding the G21SF, I'd post the following ...

Likes:

Better grip than the G21

Dislikes:

Trigger (typical forward sloping angle found on Glock, no curve)
No grip tang
Slide serrations (hard to grasp when wet or cold)
Narrow and thin guide ring on slide
Large dimension at bottom of grip
Plastic sights


Now, the trigger "feel" is pretty subjective. Being a long time revolver shooter, and having carried traditional double action service pistols since my agency transitioned away from revolvers, I've always liked a revolver-like curve to a trigger (and this is from a long time 1911 owner & shooter, too ;) ). The steeply forward sloping angle of the Glock has never felt quite like a "good" trigger to me, although I've acclimated myself to them over the years. You deal with what you're given.

Grip angle and preference is fairly subjective, too. Maybe Glock will do something about the bottom heavy 'fat' grip on the Gen4 G21's. As it is, the M&P 45 offers a pretty good range of backstrap reach and palm swell dimensions on the M&P 45. The smallest of the inserts actually feels akin to a 1911 with a flat mainspring housing, from my perspective. Pretty handy.

Both pistols seem to be suitable for their purpose, and either ought to serve a prospective owner/user well enough as a duty-type/defensive full size .45 pistol.
 
I'm going to make an attempt to recycle this old thread in order to get some recommendations for holsters for the M&P45. I plan on getting one in a couple weeks, if I can keep my dogmatic Glock ways under control, but I noticed the holster selection is not that great. If anyone would suggest a good OWB or IWB holster I would much appreciate it.
 
Do you have a current favorite for the Glocks you'd like to emulate? Most any holster that fits the G20 or G21 should fit.

MidWayUSA with a search of M&P 45 holster will turn up a good selection or are you looking for others' opinion on what they use that's comfortable/ works well?
 
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