natedog
Member
How do the various S&W 9mm automatics compare to their contemporary competition (Glock, Sig-Sauer, Beretta, etc), specifically the S&W single stacks? How's the reliability, trigger, etc?
S&W Semi-automatics- how do they compare?
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Tropical Z
Member
I would strongly disagree with that.New S&W semis are every bit as capable as any other brand and tend to have excellent triggers.The 4506 is a fantastic single stack .45acp that takes a back seat to no gun.
While generally reliable and plenty accurate I find the ergonomics somewhere in between an axe handle and a 2x4. The DA trigger is typically OK but LONG, the SA trigger mediocre to pretty good. The safety up on the slide might as well be on Mars for someone with medium or smaller hands. Prices of the cop trade in guns out there make them a TON more attractive than they ever have been, they are down in price now where they should have been new IMO. They are well made, and at around $250 I can see buying one but I couldn't when they were priced with most other comparable guns.
Gixerman1000
Member
All of my S&W auto's have been great and their Performance Center pistols are among the best you can buy.
41 / 945
952-2 / 4506-1
4004 / SW99
41 / 945
952-2 / 4506-1
4004 / SW99
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orangeninja
Member
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2003
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- 3,117
A new Smith is simply not worth a NEW SMITH COST....buy used 3rd gen ones.....or a NEW Glock/Sig. I don't care for the value/cost/whatyouget ratio on an HK either.
SouthpawShootr
Member
I have seven 3rd Generation S&W autos and mine have been completely reliable, just like my Glocks, Sigs, and H&Ks. My favorite is my 5946 DAO. Gets carried quite a bit. By all means, bash S&W. Price goes down b/c they're not selling, I buy more.
Now's a good time to get them b/c the whole line is pretty much gone and any new ones still left are going to be discounted.
Sure, you don't get the snob appeal that you do when you own one of the German guns, but S&W autos do the jobs they were designed to do.
Incidentally, I pass on the newer TSW guns only b/c I dislike the way the rails stick out like sore thumbs.
Now's a good time to get them b/c the whole line is pretty much gone and any new ones still left are going to be discounted. Sure, you don't get the snob appeal that you do when you own one of the German guns, but S&W autos do the jobs they were designed to do.
Incidentally, I pass on the newer TSW guns only b/c I dislike the way the rails stick out like sore thumbs.
orangeninja
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Yeah...why pay 700 bucks for something with a rail bolted on the frame as an afterthought. 
SouthpawShootr
Member
$700? 
That's retail. You'd have to have your head examined for paying retail on any of the guns under discussion (Smiths, Glocks, Sigs, or H&Ks).
I have one TSW with a rail in my collection (thought I'd give it a try even if I didn't like the rail). I paid $525 for that one out the door. Paid the same price for my 3913TSW (early TSW without the rail). The most I spent on any of my S&Ws was $550. All but 2 were purchased brand new.
The rail can be easily removed and S&W will do it if you ask (for a price, of course). I've seen several TSW guns without the rail and the rivet holes filled with black studs (screws, rivets, whatever it is they use). Looks pretty decent.
That's retail. You'd have to have your head examined for paying retail on any of the guns under discussion (Smiths, Glocks, Sigs, or H&Ks).I have one TSW with a rail in my collection (thought I'd give it a try even if I didn't like the rail). I paid $525 for that one out the door. Paid the same price for my 3913TSW (early TSW without the rail). The most I spent on any of my S&Ws was $550. All but 2 were purchased brand new.
The rail can be easily removed and S&W will do it if you ask (for a price, of course). I've seen several TSW guns without the rail and the rivet holes filled with black studs (screws, rivets, whatever it is they use). Looks pretty decent.
For 20 yrs my issued duty guns were S&W autos. Spent 10 yrs on SWAT and quite a number of yrs working mid-level drug cases. I depended on those guns and put them thru some pretty heavy use. 5 yrs ago we transitioned to Glock 22/23. I now carry the Glocks because if I'm going to beat around a gun I figure it might as well be someone else's gun. But quite a bit of the time off duty I still tote one of my S&W autos. They're great shooters and haven't had a lick of trouble with any of them.
otomik
Member
i hiss and spit whenever i think of their magazine disconnect safeties but they've made some really great guns like the 3913, wonderful carry piece.
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
It's a matter of personal preference, but other than the Mod. 41, there's just not anything in the SW autopistol lineup that gets me excited.
MachIVshooter
Member
I have 4 thrid gen S&W's (5906, 4006, 4506, 1006) and all have been exemplory. Reliability is second to none and I'll put my 4506 and 1006 up against most any 1911 in the accuracy arena. Great guns.
Now the Sigma, on the other hand........
I couldn't get rid of mine fast enough.
Now the Sigma, on the other hand........
I couldn't get rid of mine fast enough.MNgoldenbear
Member
Don't own any S&W autos, but the first centerfire handgun I tried out was a S&W 4006. (Hmm, come to think of it, I don't have any 40's at all either -- 22's, 9s and 45s in autos, 22s, 38s, 357s, 44s in rev.) Anyway, I think the guns shoot fine, and I've seen people who don't have any problem with them. I think the magazine disconnect should be nearly a non-issue.* Yeah, odd things can happen, but if you need to fire with your mag out, there are probably a couple of other problems that needed addressing as well (coordination, attention, tactics, etc.). I really do dislike both the fact that the safety is slide-mounted, and that you flip it up (thumb away from gripping position) to fire. Not really excited about them, but I suppose if someone were to drop one off on my doorstep, I'd tend to its "care and feeding" rather than "send it to an orphanage".
*Oh, yes. Almost forgot. The only AD that I ever had from an IPSC shooter was on a gun (S&W, I think) with a magazine disconnect. Shooter didn't have an empty mag with him to clear at the end, so he dropped the mag and shucked rounds to empty that one. I realized that he hadn't cleared the chamber as ordered, but let him proceed assuming (yeah, there's that red flag word!) that he'd clear it as soon as the mag was empty. He slammed the empty mag back in, and before I could repeat the unload command, he fired the round into the ground. Lesson to me as an RO -- MAKE the shooter obey your command IMMEDIATELY, not "when he gets around to it".
*Oh, yes. Almost forgot. The only AD that I ever had from an IPSC shooter was on a gun (S&W, I think) with a magazine disconnect. Shooter didn't have an empty mag with him to clear at the end, so he dropped the mag and shucked rounds to empty that one. I realized that he hadn't cleared the chamber as ordered, but let him proceed assuming (yeah, there's that red flag word!) that he'd clear it as soon as the mag was empty. He slammed the empty mag back in, and before I could repeat the unload command, he fired the round into the ground. Lesson to me as an RO -- MAKE the shooter obey your command IMMEDIATELY, not "when he gets around to it".
I've tried just about every manufacturer out there during the last 25 years, and I keep coming back to S&W. Nothing else compares when it comes down to simple design and quality. My favorites have been the DAO .45's such as 4546, 4556, 4553TSW and 4586TSW.
The rails were not an afterthought. The frames had to be completely redesigned to accomodate them. They are seperate so that they can easily be replaced if damaged, or if another type of rail is required later on.
The rails were not an afterthought. The frames had to be completely redesigned to accomodate them. They are seperate so that they can easily be replaced if damaged, or if another type of rail is required later on.
Ala Dan
Member in memoriam
Greeting's All-
My all time favorite S&W bottom feeder has been and continues too be
the old S&W model 39 and 39-2's; with the 3rd generation 6906 coming
in third. After the problems were worked out on the original model 59's
(and with the exception of the Sigma series, and SW 99*), I have found
that their self-loaders are reliable, accurate, and well made firearms. As
an example, I recently picked up a used (but not abused) S&W 6906 with
three 12 round magazines, box, and doc's for $235 OTD.
And as noted above, the LEO trade-in S&W 5906's are one of the
best values in the used gun market as many have been carried a lot,
but actually shot very little.
*FootNote: not tested
My all time favorite S&W bottom feeder has been and continues too be
the old S&W model 39 and 39-2's; with the 3rd generation 6906 coming
in third. After the problems were worked out on the original model 59's
(and with the exception of the Sigma series, and SW 99*), I have found
that their self-loaders are reliable, accurate, and well made firearms. As
an example, I recently picked up a used (but not abused) S&W 6906 with
three 12 round magazines, box, and doc's for $235 OTD.
And as noted above, the LEO trade-in S&W 5906's are one of the
best values in the used gun market as many have been carried a lot,
but actually shot very little.
*FootNote: not tested
WarMachine
Member
While I must say that I am a fan of the 41 and 952, the other models have absolutely no appeal to me at all.
fastbolt
Member
This question, in one variation or another, has been popping up almost monthly on the various forums I frequent ...
Of course, it could have something to do with S&W pistols starting to become popular again.
All things considered, the older production S&W semiauto pistols had some occasional issues which were addressed as time passed (as can be said for virtually every other semiauto pistol made by a major manufacturer), and the current production models are reliable, rugged, accurate, well-manufactured and able to account for themselves shoulder-to-shoulder with anything else being produced in their price range ... although I give a slight edge in preference to their metal-framed line.
I certainly didn't start out as a S&W semiauto pistol fan enthusiast/owner/user, preferring Colts ... and later Ruger P-series pistols ... but the S&W 3rd generation models have acquitted themselves well with me.
I think I've attended 7 armorers classes for their pistol lines, and I find their folks very, very helpful. A couple of parts still require fitting in the metal-framed lines, but the lifetime warranty philosophy (which generally includes free shipping both ways to return a new pistol to the factory) makes that a non-issue for the regular owner. L/E owners/users have the support of the S&W Academy & factory when it comes to having their folks trained as S&W armorers, too (like the other major manufacturers, although S&W has a VERY large training program through their Academy that might surprise a lot of people).
I've carried their pistols for 15 years at this point, and I'll be carrying them until I retire, since they were just selected again after a long, reasonably extensive T&E/review/recommendation process (TSW models this time). Some of us once sat down and estimated that we've watched upwards of a million (or more) rounds fired downrange since we adopted S&W pistols about 15 years ago, including personally owned pistols carried as off-duty weapons, and they've acquitted themselves well without significant, major problems.
Their SW1911 models are quickly changing minds about an affordable, reliable, out-of-the-box .45 ACP pistol and are setting new standards in that market category, too.
Magazine disconnects? I've only seen or heard of a couple of instances where either left-handed shooters could cause the magazine catch to be unintentionally engaged, or a leather holster wasn't really properly cut & molded to clear the mag catch button ... and the magazine catch was unintentionally depressed far enough to release the magazine and disconnect the trigger. The more common issue I've seen occur was where someone failed to properly insert their magazine so that it fully engaged the magazine catch, and the magazine dropped enough to disconnect the trigger after the first shot was fired. The funny thing is, that in virtually all of these instances the pistol wouldn't have fired another round because the magazines had either fully dropped or partially dropped enough to cause feeding problems with the slide's stripper rail picking up the next round, as well as disconnecting the trigger.
Being able to fire a chambered round in the middle of a 'combat reload'? Please ...
Most folks I've seen haven't bothered to specifically train for that specific instant recognition and patterned response to unexpectedly occur in the middle of their trained reloading techniques, let alone in a real threat situation where fine motor skills are diminishing faster than many folks can realize what's occurring around them ...
Maybe it's a concern for some folks, and that's certainly their choice. It isn't something I stay up late worrying about, however ...
Location and operation of the slide mounted decocker safety? Well, Walther started that particular ball rolling in the late 20's, wasn't it? Somehow people who express a particular fondness for some of the Walther pistols never seem to mind the slide mounted safety decocker lever. Maybe they simply adapt to it.
While we recommend our folks carry their S&W TDA pistols in the ready-to-fire condition, a couple folks prefer to carry theirs with the safety lever depressed/ON, and they naturally have to meet the same timing standards when it comes to qualifying. I've watched people carrying 1911's fail to remember to depress and disengage their thumb safeties, too. I suppose it's a training issue in a basic sense, huh?
Then again, I've met folks that preferred the presence of the magazine disconnect and slide mounted safety levers for officer safety reasons, and that's their preference and prerogative when it comes down to it.
They're a fine pistol for the money, and are commonly available for less than the advertised retail prices (again, like those from other manufacturers).
Now, for those folks that have some philosophical/personal/political axe to grind ... I'm sure you'll hear from them, too.
Of course, it could have something to do with S&W pistols starting to become popular again.
All things considered, the older production S&W semiauto pistols had some occasional issues which were addressed as time passed (as can be said for virtually every other semiauto pistol made by a major manufacturer), and the current production models are reliable, rugged, accurate, well-manufactured and able to account for themselves shoulder-to-shoulder with anything else being produced in their price range ... although I give a slight edge in preference to their metal-framed line.
I certainly didn't start out as a S&W semiauto pistol fan enthusiast/owner/user, preferring Colts ... and later Ruger P-series pistols ... but the S&W 3rd generation models have acquitted themselves well with me.
I think I've attended 7 armorers classes for their pistol lines, and I find their folks very, very helpful. A couple of parts still require fitting in the metal-framed lines, but the lifetime warranty philosophy (which generally includes free shipping both ways to return a new pistol to the factory) makes that a non-issue for the regular owner. L/E owners/users have the support of the S&W Academy & factory when it comes to having their folks trained as S&W armorers, too (like the other major manufacturers, although S&W has a VERY large training program through their Academy that might surprise a lot of people).
I've carried their pistols for 15 years at this point, and I'll be carrying them until I retire, since they were just selected again after a long, reasonably extensive T&E/review/recommendation process (TSW models this time). Some of us once sat down and estimated that we've watched upwards of a million (or more) rounds fired downrange since we adopted S&W pistols about 15 years ago, including personally owned pistols carried as off-duty weapons, and they've acquitted themselves well without significant, major problems.
Their SW1911 models are quickly changing minds about an affordable, reliable, out-of-the-box .45 ACP pistol and are setting new standards in that market category, too.
Magazine disconnects? I've only seen or heard of a couple of instances where either left-handed shooters could cause the magazine catch to be unintentionally engaged, or a leather holster wasn't really properly cut & molded to clear the mag catch button ... and the magazine catch was unintentionally depressed far enough to release the magazine and disconnect the trigger. The more common issue I've seen occur was where someone failed to properly insert their magazine so that it fully engaged the magazine catch, and the magazine dropped enough to disconnect the trigger after the first shot was fired. The funny thing is, that in virtually all of these instances the pistol wouldn't have fired another round because the magazines had either fully dropped or partially dropped enough to cause feeding problems with the slide's stripper rail picking up the next round, as well as disconnecting the trigger.
Being able to fire a chambered round in the middle of a 'combat reload'? Please ...
Most folks I've seen haven't bothered to specifically train for that specific instant recognition and patterned response to unexpectedly occur in the middle of their trained reloading techniques, let alone in a real threat situation where fine motor skills are diminishing faster than many folks can realize what's occurring around them ...
Maybe it's a concern for some folks, and that's certainly their choice. It isn't something I stay up late worrying about, however ...
Location and operation of the slide mounted decocker safety? Well, Walther started that particular ball rolling in the late 20's, wasn't it? Somehow people who express a particular fondness for some of the Walther pistols never seem to mind the slide mounted safety decocker lever. Maybe they simply adapt to it.
While we recommend our folks carry their S&W TDA pistols in the ready-to-fire condition, a couple folks prefer to carry theirs with the safety lever depressed/ON, and they naturally have to meet the same timing standards when it comes to qualifying. I've watched people carrying 1911's fail to remember to depress and disengage their thumb safeties, too. I suppose it's a training issue in a basic sense, huh?
Then again, I've met folks that preferred the presence of the magazine disconnect and slide mounted safety levers for officer safety reasons, and that's their preference and prerogative when it comes down to it.
They're a fine pistol for the money, and are commonly available for less than the advertised retail prices (again, like those from other manufacturers).
Now, for those folks that have some philosophical/personal/political axe to grind ... I'm sure you'll hear from them, too.
farscott
Member
The only S&W autos that I like are the single-stacks. Currently, I have a M41, a M945-1, and a M952-2, all single stacks, that are in the "keeper" pile. I have also had two M3913's that were perfectly reliable and easy to shoot carry guns.
The double-stack pistols are just as reliable, but my small hands are not compatible with the grip frames. I also had trouble flipping the safety off on the double stacks.
The double-stack pistols are just as reliable, but my small hands are not compatible with the grip frames. I also had trouble flipping the safety off on the double stacks.
C-grunt
Member
I fired a friends 910 or 911...which ever is the single stack, and it was the most accurate 9mm I have ever fired.
Jiml3
Member
I have a 3rd generation 6906 and am very, very satisfied with it. It has several thousand rounds through it without any failure to feed or failures to eject. I would trust it with my life and that is high indeed!!
It is good looking, light weight, holds 12 + 1 rounds, smooth trigger and one of the fastest trigger resets. What more could you ask for?
It is good looking, light weight, holds 12 + 1 rounds, smooth trigger and one of the fastest trigger resets. What more could you ask for?
I've owned one of the compact, alloy frame, DAO .45s.
(Model 357 maybe?)
It wasn't quite as compact or light as a Glock, but had an excellent out-of-the-box trigger.
It was accurate, reliable, and felt very ergonomic.
Given it's relatively light weight, it was very comfortable to shoot.
While not an ideal CCW gun for me, I would have been willing to trust it with my life.
I think mine was $400-450, about 3 years ago.
I no longer have it, as I like all of my guns to be concealable.
The only drawback to me was the high cost of 7 rd mags.
(Model 357 maybe?)
It wasn't quite as compact or light as a Glock, but had an excellent out-of-the-box trigger.
It was accurate, reliable, and felt very ergonomic.
Given it's relatively light weight, it was very comfortable to shoot.
While not an ideal CCW gun for me, I would have been willing to trust it with my life.
I think mine was $400-450, about 3 years ago.
I no longer have it, as I like all of my guns to be concealable.
The only drawback to me was the high cost of 7 rd mags.
DDGator
Member
The vast majority of people who know S&W Autos like them. Its hard to find anyone to say anything bad about the 3913, which many call the best single stack 9mm ever made.
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