S&W39 (no Dash) extraction/ejection issues

[kBob]

So a friend emailed me this AM about a classic M39 he has been trying to get reliable. His issue is that a cases with some brands of ammo are not being fully extracted and ejected.

I went to Gun parts Corp site to look at parts availability when I noticed that it appeared on photo showed a case with no noticeable extractor marks on it still far enough in the chamber that the gun failed to feed the following round and so was locked open. there were two other pictures of that same sort of stoppage though one cartridge rim did appear to have been gnawed on and the third maybe a very little.

Interestingly I noticed in the Gun Corp picture that the extractor claw on the part they showed was very rounded on the face towards the breech face. I have to wonder how much of the reliability issues with the older M39s not liking a variety of ammo may have something to do with a poorly designed extractor.

I suggested he buy a replacement fro his original and do the sort of reshaping many .22RF shooters end up doing on various extractors to make it at least flat if not give it a little bite.

Is this something any of you have tried?

Any suggestions on making the M39 more reliable other than the "get a real gun" variety? Ideas that have worked for you?

-kBob

 

[bannockburn]

kBob

This is what I remembered reading about the S&W Model 39 and problems it had:

From the Summer, 1975 edition of Guns Annual Book of Handguns: an article entitled "Saga of Smith's Parabellums" by Jan Stevenson.

"However over the course of a brace of decades, it became obvious that the Model 39 had a couple of chronic trouble spots. These have recently been cured by engineering changes , and the conglomerate improvements inspired a new model designation: 39-2.

The Model 39-2 differs from the Model 39 at three significant points: the barrel bushing, the extractor, and the feed ramp.

The most trouble-prone part on the old Model 39 was the extractor. As long as it held, it was one of the greatest extractors going but it all too often broke. This device was lavishly machined, served as it's own spring, and where it broke was at the heel at the back end, which keyed into a slot just ahead of the safety tumbler, and tensioned the whole affair. This heel was a hand fitting point, and was under heavy and constant strain. Smith and Wesson replaced the whole rig with a mundane little hook tensioned by a coil spring, which is virtually guaranteed not to break.This is not an unmixed blessing. If memory serves, the original extractor claw was easily twice the width of the new one.That old extractor took a hell of a handful of rim-on the order of a quarter to a third of the casehead circumference, and whatever fed up under it was bound to come back out of the chamber.

The new extractor is certainly not bad. It is merely ordinary, and leaves something to be desired."

 

[Monac]

You have an impressive memory and library, bannockburn!

 

[bannockburn]

Monac

Thanks! I remembered that article in particular because I always thought the Model 39 was one of the classiest looking pistols I ever saw.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Replacing his original extractor with one from a M39-2 should solve any issues he is having.

From the M39-2 onward, through the Gen3 S&W DA/SA pistols, the extractors from S&W have been outstanding

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

Replacing his original extractor with one from a M39-2 should solve any issues he is having.

From the M39-2 onward, through the Gen3 S&W DA/SA pistols, the extractors from S&W have been outstanding

You cannot retrofit a no dash with a -2 extractor, the entire slide is different:

I know of no source for new no-dash extractors, but these have long been in demand, so it would not surprise me if someone is making a few........you would have to scour the interweb or contact a machine shop to see if they can fab you one.

 

[9mmepiphany]

You cannot retrofit a no dash with a -2 extractor, the entire slide is different:

I'd heard that 1st Gen M39s were produced with both the long and the short extractors.

I have to admit to never having seen one with the longer extractor

 

[Mizar]

Interestingly I noticed in the Gun Corp picture that the extractor claw on the part they showed was very rounded on the face towards the breech face

Apart from the obvious extractor variants issue, that rounding you see on the picture is just a clearance cut, it doesn't affect the extractor function. The extractor claw rests on the groove of the case, not on the rim as with 1911 internal extractor so a clearance cut must be made to not touch the rim. Newer MIM S&W extractors are good to go out of the box (it's a plastic bag actually...) - the only fitting that might be required is adjusting it's position via the tab behind the claw, that's it.

 

[Ed4032]

kBob

The most trouble-prone part on the old Model 39 was the extractor. As long as it held, it was one of the greatest extractors going but it all too often broke. This device was lavishly machined, served as it's own spring, and where it broke was at the heel at the back end, which keyed into a slot just ahead of the safety tumbler, and tensioned the whole affair. This heel was a hand fitting point, and was under heavy and constant strain. Smith and Wesson replaced the whole rig with a mundane little hook tensioned by a coil spring, which is virtually guaranteed not to break."

Yep this is exactly where mine broke. Back in the day I sent it in to S&W for repair. They replaced the entire slide with a 39-2 type. I still have it.

 

[bannockburn]

9mmepiphany

I have to admit to never having seen one with the longer extractor

Even with my many visits to gun shops and gun shows over the years, I can't recall seeing a Model 39-no dash. Don't recall coming across any of the steel frame Model 39s that S&W made (less than 1,000 were built), or the Model 44 (the rare single action trigger variant), either.

Just saw a Model 39-no dash on Gunbroker. Current bid is at $600!

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

I actually had a no-dash before I found this nickel 39-2 (shown next to its 19-3 brother):

It still functioned OK, but it was in very poor cosmetic shape. I sold it to my buddy who uses it for a glovebox gun.

 

[Stumper]

Long ago I had a first gen model 59. Wonderful shooter but the grip felt like a brick (a problem that the single stack 39 did not have). My 59 started giving extraction/ejection problems. Close examination revealed that part of the extractor hook had broken off. Replaced the extractor and it ran 100% until I sold it in a fit of poverty.

 

[kBob]

Well he played with it over night. Found he could not drive out the pin holding the extractor in and this morning took it to a "real gunsmith".

The smith pronounced the extractor and spring okee dokkee and recommended polishing the chamber........second thing on my initial list of things for him to try.

Stumper,

When high school buddy #6 turned 21 he dashed right out and bought a S&W59, then a brand new thing. We played with it at his Mom's table a bit, broke it down and inspected the bits, put it back together and headed down to the mill pond. He was banging away as was everyone else and I asked him to hand me his 2x4 (two by four) to let me try it. He got a little miffed, but had to admit it was the most brick like pistol there that day.

I wonder what some far distant future archeologist will make of that pond bottom covered with bits of broken bottles. Not being modern enviro conscious folks 40 plus years ago our target of choice was an empty beverage bottle tossed as far as possible out into the pond. You had to shoot fast to hit them before they sank....unless they never did. Some would float over to the irrigation intake over night and we might recover them for another round. Mayonnaise jars with the lids screwed on were initially airborne shotgun targets. It was not sporting to shoot a sitting (floating) mayonnaise jar with the scatter gun though so one had to transition to hand gun. Fancy training, that.

-kBob

 

[jmace57]

kBob - practizing your skillet shots, eh?

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I have a 39-2 that is having the occasional failure to eject. I got a spring kit and replaced all of the springs except for the extractor spring which I cannot get the extractor pin out. How do you get that pin out?

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

I have a 39-2 that is having the occasional failure to eject. I got a spring kit and replaced all of the springs except for the extractor spring which I cannot get the extractor pin out. How do you get that pin out?

You should be able to take the slide off, flip it over and drive it out with an appropriately sized squared-tip punch. If it is a blind hole (doubtful), it would have to be (carefully) drilled out.