SA load/unload

[AZAndy]

I'm thinking about doing an NRA Pistol Instructor class in April, and one of the things one has to do for the pre-course qualification is demonstrate safe loading and unloading of a single-action revolver. I don't have any of those. Is there something special about 'em? I'm guessing they must mean revolvers with loading gates, which I have no familiarity with. Can anyone provide a hint? Thanks!

 

[JT-AR-MG42]

Colt, Ruger, and the few Italian I have been around?
Muzzle depressed in a safe direction.
Pistol to half cock.
Open loading gate.
Load one chamber.
Skip the next chamber.
Load the last four.
Gun to full cock and lower the hammer.

That will have the pistol with an empty chamber under the hammer.

The course would probably want that for safety, although
loading six is only dangerous if something should hit the hammer with enough force to fire the cartridge.

Unloading loaded rounds is easy. Empty cases, just punch them out with the ejector rod.
Half cock - open loading gate.
Elevate muzzle - catch the rounds as you rotate the cylinder.

You should never lower the hammer from either the safety or half cock notch.
Always bring the gun to full cock before lowering the hammer.
(Although who knows if the course instructors care about improper care of a gun's mechanics?)

Someone else can cover the newer Rugers that do not require
half cock for loading as I have never handled one.

JT

 

[Coyote3855]

Good information from JT about original single actions from the 19th century, recent imported clones, and Ruger revolvers made before about 1973. Ruger single actions made after that date have what's called a transfer bar that transfers the energy of hammer to the firing pin only when the trigger is pulled. The bar is a flat piece of steel visible in the frame when the hammer is cocked. In these newer revolvers, it is not necessary or even possible to put the hammer in a half cock. Opening the loading gate allows the cylinder to turn for loading and unloading. Revolvers with the transfer bar are safe to carry with all six chambers loaded.

And the NRA instructors I teach with absolutely care about the proper care of a gun's mechanics, although some are not always familiar with management of all types of handguns.

Of course, when handling any firearm and especially in the NRA instructor prequal, remember the three NRA Rules:

1. Always keep the firearm pointed in a safe direction.
2. Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
3. Always keep the firearm unloaded until ready to use.

But you probably knew that already. Good luck with your course. We need more good instructors.

 

[Gary A]

Of course, if one has mastered the demonstrated procedure for loading a single action revolver as described, it will also work just fine for a new Ruger also, leaving it loaded with five, simply omitting the part about putting it at half-cock.
Load one, skip one, load four, cock and lower hammer on empty chamber.

 

[AZAndy]

Colt, Ruger, and the few Italian I have been around?
Muzzle depressed in a safe direction.
Pistol to half cock.
Open loading gate.
Load one chamber.
Skip the next chamber.
Load the last four.
Gun to full cock and lower the hammer.
JT

Thank you! I bet that's what they're after. I'm trying to track down some Official NRA Single Action Rules but haven't found anything yet-- I ordered the pistol-shooting DVD, maybe that will have something.

Maybe this means I have to buy a SAO revolver. That would be horrible. I'd really hate that.

 

[AZAndy]

Good information from JT about original single actions from the 19th century, recent imported clones, and Ruger revolvers made before about 1973. Ruger single actions made after that date have what's called a transfer bar that transfers the energy of hammer to the firing pin only when the trigger is pulled. The bar is a flat piece of steel visible in the frame when the hammer is cocked. In these newer revolvers, it is not necessary or even possible to put the hammer in a half cock. Opening the loading gate allows the cylinder to turn for loading and unloading. Revolvers with the transfer bar are safe to carry with all six chambers loaded.

Thanks-- my SP101 seems to have the transfer bar of which you speak. Now I just have to figure out whether the NRA wants the ancient-technology version or the modern-technology version.

 

[CaptTripps]

It depends on the gun if you have a hammer block safety built in or not. My SBH is as follows, If you are right handed.

After last shot, flip gun onto its left side, gate facing upwards, muzzle down approx. 45 degree angle. Right hand thumb flips open loading gate. Left hand comes up to ejector rod. Left hand pointer finger manipulates ejector rod while left thumb and right thumb rotates cylinder. After the 6 rounds are ejected, left hand grasps pistol around front of cylinder, strap area,thumb on cylinder. Right hand reaches for 2 rounds at a time, feeding them in one using your two thumbs to spin the cylinder. It sucks missing a chamber and having to go all the way around again. I have a free-spin pawl for mine somewhere in the parts bin, need to find it and fit it.

Hope this helps/

 

[Malamute]

Of course, if one has mastered the demonstrated procedure for loading a single action revolver as described, it will also work just fine for a new Ruger also, leaving it loaded with five, simply omitting the part about putting it at half-cock.
Load one, skip one, load four, cock and lower hammer on empty chamber.

I'm trying to figure out why anyone would cock a new model Ruger for any reason when loading. The new model loading, as in not havin g to manipulate the hammer and trigger, is one of the major advantages over the older type. If one wants to load 5, again, I don't know why, but just loading 5 and closing the gate leaves an empty chamber under the hammer. The rims of the shells show where the empty chamber is, so it can be monitored if desired to be sure its under the hammer.

It sucks missing a chamber and having to go all the way around again. I have a free-spin pawl for mine somewhere in the parts bin, need to find it and fit it.

Instead of rotating the chamber in line (and sometimes going too far), then inserting a cartridge, put the cartridge in position and roll the empty chamber under it. I cursed the indexing of the new models for a while, then started doing it differently and rarely miss a chamber. Just getting the chamber close, but not completely in line to load, then rolling it into line also works.


This isn't coming from someone that's never used older types, I started on Rugers before the new model came about, and have had several Colts, which I truly love. I can use both with no issue. The new model system is much safer and simpler overall. Its only weak point is breaking transfer bars.

 

[MedWheeler]

^^ I think it's to maintain a habit that covers all S/A revolvers "across the board", reducing the chances that someone used to not having to manipulate the hammer doesn't attempt to load a new revolver of another make without doing so.

Same for the idea of having the hammer resting on an empty chamber.

 

[Malamute]

^^ I think it's to maintain a habit that covers all S/A revolvers "across the board", reducing the chances that someone used to not having to manipulate the hammer doesn't attempt to load a new revolver of another make without doing so.

Same for the idea of having the hammer resting on an empty chamber.

I guess that may make sense in a backward way. Backward meaning doing something unnecessary and potentially more dangerous with guns that don't require it, rather than recognize that some operate differently and need a different technique. Having someone less familiar with guns cocking and letting the hammer down on a loaded gun when not at all needed doesn't make sense to me, and is negating some of the safety benefits of the new model system.

 

[Jim Watson]

Back when I was shooting a lot of CAS, I was frequently told about the "load four, skip one, load one" drill (Which I had read in Skeeter Skelton's stuff long before.)

I just continued in my folly of poking in five, and then rolling the cylinder to be sure I didn't have a high primer or proud round in a fouled chamber. Then line up the empty to fall under the hammer when full cocked and lowered.

If you always shoot factory loads in a clean gun, never mind.
If you are shooting lead bullet reloads all day, you might want to think how you will avoid binding the cylinder. I have seen a lot of the 4, skip, 1 experts who did not.

 

[huntsman]

I think it's to maintain a habit that covers all S/A revolvers "across the board"

If one doesn't understand how a particular gun functions one shouldn't be touching it.

 

[Malamute]

Back when I was shooting a lot of CAS, I was frequently told about the "load four, skip one, load one" drill (Which I had read in Skeeter Skelton's stuff long before.)

I just continued in my folly of poking in five, and then rolling the cylinder to be sure I didn't have a high primer or proud round in a fouled chamber. Then line up the empty to fall under the hammer when full cocked and lowered.

If you always shoot factory loads in a clean gun, never mind.
If you are shooting lead bullet reloads all day, you might want to think how you will avoid binding the cylinder. I have seen a lot of the 4, skip, 1 experts who did not.

Interesting that you say that. I never ever used the loading method most advocate. I looked at the rear edge of the cylinder to be positive the empty chamber was aligned under the hammer. I was usually lowering the hammer from just past half cock also. Nobody told me that was bad, but it never hurt any of my guns. Rotating the cylinder around was part of the process, and did indeed ensure it was free. I still roll them around to be sure with the new models, and definitely with 22's.

From the Colt factory manual,

When you no longer want the hammer at Half-Cock, place thumb firmly
on hammer spur and draw hammer back slightly to disengage Half-
Cock notch. Insure that empty chamber remains in front of hammer.
Squeeze trigger only long enough to allow hammer to move forward and
clear Half-Cock notch, then release trigger completely so that Safety
notch can be properly engaged, and lower hammer, controlling its
movement with your thumb, into the Safety position. Practice this action
with an empty revolver to assure proper feel.

 

[CraigC]

When you no longer want the hammer at Half-Cock, place thumb firmly
on hammer spur and draw hammer back slightly to disengage Half-
Cock notch. Insure that empty chamber remains in front of hammer.
Squeeze trigger only long enough to allow hammer to move forward and
clear Half-Cock notch, then release trigger completely so that Safety
notch can be properly engaged, and lower hammer, controlling its
movement with your thumb, into the Safety position. Practice this action
with an empty revolver to assure proper feel.

Good Lord, terrible advice from the Colt manual!

The load one, skip one, load four method works brilliantly. All you have to do is cock and lower the hammer. One can do this without even looking. It is superior in every way. It's faster, more efficient and won't ring the cylinder.

 

[Malamute]

Good Lord, terrible advice from the Colt manual!

The load one, skip one, load four method works brilliantly. All you have to do is cock and lower the hammer. One can do this without even looking. It is superior in every way. It's faster, more efficient and won't ring the cylinder.

They mention the way you describe as an alternate method, but not cocking the gun all the way. I can hardly get behind the notion that's its the only "correct" way. I'm not sure what negative effect would ensue by not cocking it, other than the fetish some have with trying to avoid a turn line. If its pulled back til the locking bolt indexes back to the cylinder, it isn't any real difference in turn line. A small difference in turn line never bothered me, nor did I ever know there was any difference until I read of the horrors of it online. I suppose I was blissful in my ignorance.

Bottom line of all this sidetrack discussion to me, its foolish to encourage a novice to fully cock and release the hammer on a loaded revolver if not truly necessary, and is potential for mistakes if one thinks "they've got it", like the presumed experts do it, not thinking those others have likely many years of experience. All of this nit picking over exact methods is a disservice to the OP that was seeking the most basic level of understanding how to load or unload them. The simplest and safest, without unnecessary cocking and lowering of hammer, would seem to be in order. Trying to teach a method that's OK for experienced people and claim its better for neophites isn't filling that requirement.

 

[rcmodel]

But, if you follow the load one, skip one, load four method?

You have to cock it and lower it back on the empty chamber.
There is no danger.

The danger would be if you lowered it from half cock.
Because there would be a live round under it.

The reason for it is, lowering the hammer from half cock forces to bolt spring over the hammer cam going the wrong way.

Its hard on the bolt, and to creates a turn ring.

rc

 

[45 Dragoon]

RC,
That is not true! The bolt is not off the cam yet! Lowering from half cock doesn't do what you say and you say that all the time!! It's wrong !! Why don't you pull the trigger guard off and watch what happens so you won't keep spreading bs!
If it did fall off before half cock, you wouldn't be able to spin the cyl. !! Also, if it did, the cam is wedge shaped and it would just push the bolt arm to the side - just like it does anyway. Where in the world do you get this from? I know I pointed this out probably 3 yrs ago.

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

 

[Malamute]

But, if you follow the load one, skip one, load four method?

You have to cock it and lower it back on the empty chamber.
There is no danger.

The danger would be if you lowered it from half cock.
Because there would be a live round under it.

The reason for it is, lowering the hammer from half cock forces to bolt spring over the hammer cam going the wrong way.

Its hard on the bolt, and to creates a turn ring.

rc

And IF they remembered to load 4, skip one, load one,...

I'm sorry, but I don't buy into that as being a smart way to try to train a neophyte, one who likely will not see or handle a Colt type single action again any time soon, and to do it correctly and safely, requires memorizing the sequence. Ive used SA's since the early 70's and cant remember the sequence, since I've never used it.

I too call balony on hurting the gun. The turn line thing is in the mind of some, and trying to say their way of skip loading is the only smart, right, or correct way, is also balony. The factory doesn't think its the only way.

Misremembering the sequence can be a serious problem. There seems to be a disconnect with some, assuming for some reason that anyone that is shown how to do a loading sequence that relies on memory, that those people are somehow going to spend actual time working with the gun and memorizing the sequence, on the off chance that they may come across a certain type of gun they've never see before, so they'll please some fans of that gun who insist on operating them a certain way. For crying out loud.

Keep in mind, the military drills into people how to simply unload a selfloading pistol, and there are STILL people that will eject the chambered round, then drop the magazine, drop the hammer in the unload barrel, and be surprised at the loud noise.

 

[CraigC]

Nonsense. I learned it at 12yrs old and it has never been a problem. These days, it's completely automatic. And it's not like Colt replicas are not totally commonplace.

 

[Malamute]

Nonsense. I learned it at 12yrs old and it has never been a problem. These days, it's completely automatic. And it's not like Colt replicas are not totally commonplace.

Exactly my point Craig. Its a great system for someone that's actually interested in the guns, and is willing to work with it and make it automatic, and understand how it works. My issue is trying to teach it to someone that's entirely unfamiliar with the type, and relying on memory of the sequence to be safe.

Our OP is going for NRA Instructor certification and has no idea how either a new model Ruger OR a Colt type function. Hes going to be "the expert" to many new shooters. Keeping it as simple as possible, and relying on the visual element of seeing where the empty chamber is is safer. Mistaking the sequence isn't going to result in the gun being cocked on a live round. It also takes some practice to be safe cocking and lowering a hammer. Some people slip when unfamiliar with it. Were talking raw newcomers to the sport.

If they pursue an interest in SA guns, then by all means introduce them to other methods of operation if they decide they want to learn it and are willing to invest the time to make it second nature. It seems to work fine for many people, though as noted, it isn't the only way to operate the guns. Ive shot many tens of thousands of rounds through single actions, both old type and new models and never used the method.

 

[BSA1]

Of course, if one has mastered the demonstrated procedure for loading a single action revolver as described, it will also work just fine for a new Ruger also, leaving it loaded with five, simply omitting the part about putting it at half-cock.
Load one, skip one, load four, cock and lower hammer on empty chamber.

I am also trying to figure out how you rotate the cylinder that the hammer is fully cocked on a Ruger.

I'm sorry, but I don't buy into that as being a smart way to try to train a neophyte, one who likely will not see or handle a Colt type single action again any time soon, and to do it correctly and safely, requires memorizing the sequence. Ive used SA's since the early 70's and cant remember the sequence, since I've never used it.

If they are trained correctly from the start then they are not going to share your memory problems. The load one, skip one, load four sequence is the only safe way to load a Colt SAA and clones.

The factory doesn't think its the only way.

Single Action Revolvers currently made by Colt are not intended to be shot with live ammunition. Don't believe me? Read their manual.

I agree that the O.P. is in over his head trying to teach others about the single action revolver. Nothing will destroy your credibility quicker than trying to be a expert on a subject you know very little about.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

I agree that the O.P. is in over his head trying to teach others about the single action revolver. Nothing will destroy your credibility quicker than trying to be a expert on a subject you know very little about.

Howdy

I agree. Why would anybody try to instruct someone about a firearm they are not themselves familiar with?

My advice to the OP is to buy a New Model Ruger AND a replica of a Colt, then find somebody who is very familiar with both, like a CAS shooter, and get instruction in both guns from someone who knows what they are talking about.

Or else don't buy them but still get the instruction from someone who knows what they are doing. But if you don't work those actions a whole bunch of times, you are not going to get familiar with them, and short of borrowing them for a while I don't see how you are going to do it without buying them.

I know a fair amount about a 1911, but I haven't field stripped one in a long time and would not feel comfortable instructing anybody else how to do it.

Personally, I bought my first Single Action revolver, a New Model Ruger in 1975. So I was very familiar with the Ruger when I bought my first colt replica many years later. It only took a little while for me to get comfortable with the load one, skip one, load four more routine.

 

[45 Dragoon]

I will say, if taught from the get go how to do a process, that - is what you know/default to. Any time one starts to deviate from what they were taught (if it was correct or worked ), that is when "problems" happen. I was taught to load one, skip one and will to this day with a S.A. that has no safty device for loading 6.
It seems to me that having to look for the empty chamber could be most problematic. For instance, a S.A.with recessed chambers is hard to see any case heads but, even if you can't see them, if you load one- skip one- load 4, you can cock it and let the hammer down on an empty every - single - time.
I know it's hard to believe but, I know that some folks will see an empty chamber under the hammer ( after turning the cylinder "hunting" the empty) and will cock it thinking the empty is still under there!! Of course, this is one way to keep the gene pool "smarter" shall we say?!

Mike
www.goonsgunworks.com
Follow me on Instagram @ goonsgunworks

 

[Malamute]

The load one, skip one, load four sequence is the only safe way to load a Colt SAA and clones.

Ah, humor. Thanks!

 

[AZAndy]

Howdy

I agree. Why would anybody try to instruct someone about a firearm they are not themselves familiar with?

I agree as well. I have no plans to change careers and no interest in being a professional instructor. A two-day class is not going to make me an expert in anything; I see it as a jumping-off point for more in-depth training, especially in personal defense. I'm mostly interested in the basic instructor training, and seeing how things are done in the "official" NRA way.