It isn't the fact that something bad will happen that makes this a bad idea. It's the fact that there's no guarantee something bad won't
Safety of using live bullets in project
- Thread starter Birdmang
- Start date
- Status
jcwit
member
Thats also a fact when I step out of bed in the morning. Heck its even a fact if I stay in bed.
Regarding the resin expanding and exerting pressure (enough to crush a live primer)--Folks a primer is ignited by sudden impact not by pressure.
Regarding significant heat as they harden, lets use a little common sense here. He have ammo stored in containers in Iraq where the daytime temps reach 140 degrees with no problem, Lord only knows how hot it gets inside of the container. Ever pick up a brass live round thats been laying out in the sun in the heat of the summer? Doesn't take long to look it over does it.
If folks are this paranoid over something like this how in the world do they ever drive down to the drugstore?
Last edited:
xcgates
Member
Maybe look at it from a cost-benefit (cost/effort-risk in this case).
Small effort (I would think, I've only reloaded 12ga), big headaches.
I don't think anything would cause the round to go off, as most epoxies or whatever compound consumers use won't get that hot. Sure, they could get hot enough to be uncomfortable, but not dangerously. The bigger risk is from legal complications. And legal complications can get truly nasty. Will they happen? No. Could they happen? Yes. Is it worth the small up-front effort to remove (most) of the possibility? For me, the answer is yes.
But as with anything online, this post (and the rest of them) is worth what you paid for them. IANAL, and am certainly not posting in any official capacity.
Small effort (I would think, I've only reloaded 12ga), big headaches.
I don't think anything would cause the round to go off, as most epoxies or whatever compound consumers use won't get that hot. Sure, they could get hot enough to be uncomfortable, but not dangerously. The bigger risk is from legal complications. And legal complications can get truly nasty. Will they happen? No. Could they happen? Yes. Is it worth the small up-front effort to remove (most) of the possibility? For me, the answer is yes.
But as with anything online, this post (and the rest of them) is worth what you paid for them. IANAL, and am certainly not posting in any official capacity.
fletcher
Member
Can't speak for the overall risk, but I've done this successfully. The heat is proportional to the amount of catalyst you add, so as long as you don't go crazy with it (even then, don't think it would become sufficiently hot to set off the primer), the risk should be incredibly low.
If you have access to rounds without the powder, that's always better.
If you have access to rounds without the powder, that's always better.
mptrimshop
Member
PICS!!!!
Are you willing to accept liability for the stability of the powder & primer compound 20 years from now? Are you willing to accept liability when a child who doesn't know better, 10 years after this artifact has been sold at a garage sale, decides to toss it into a fire or see what would happen if it's cooked with a magnifying glass or if the bullets could be removed using a hammer or saw or torch? I'm not.
Practicing common sense isn't paranoia. This situation is also much different than getting up out of bed in the morning to go to the drug store. That feat is a common occurrence in which one can exercise reasonable control of the risks.
Chances of being struck by lightning are small. Yet one doesn't tempt fate by standing in an open field during a thunderstorm
jcwit
member
Well, I've been shooting ammo with a Nazi stamp on it so it must be at least 65 years old. So that blows that out of the common sense equation.
Well thats a possible, but then what does it being encased in resin have to do with it. This would be true whether cased or not.
Furthermore is the person doing the project going to engrave their name, SS#, address, ect., on said cube? Doubtful.
Chances of loosing ones life in an auto accident are much, much greater than getting struck by lighting, do you stay off the roads? I'll wager you even break the speed limit at times. Ever tempt fate by using ones cell phone while driving.
Now lets get back to common sense.
svtruth
Member
Haven't I seen
whole arrays of cartridges in plastic as a sales tool at the LGS?
Surely someone here has cut one of those up and can tell us whether they were charged or not.
Then do what that mfr does.
Good luck.
whole arrays of cartridges in plastic as a sales tool at the LGS?
Surely someone here has cut one of those up and can tell us whether they were charged or not.
Then do what that mfr does.
Good luck.
THe Dove
BOOMER SOONER!!!
While I agree that the chances of live ammo discharging is slim in this circumstance, it is my opinion that live rounds are made to be discharged out of a firearm. NOT used as paper weights, decorations, or anything else....
The Dove
The Dove
lcwit,
When I said significant heat, I'm not talking about 140 deg F.
It's likely that what the OP has is some form of ployester resin, along the lines of fiberglass resin. Mixed correctly, those can top 170 F. Too much resin and they can top out over noticably over 200 F. I know this because one of the things I've had to mout are automotive thermostats. They begin to open at 165 F. If we don't drill and drain the power pill, the mount is ruined when the thermostat opens and cracks the plastic in half. Even 185 deg thermostats will open often enough that we drill out the powerpill on those too.
Will 200 F ignite a primer? I don't know. I'm also not going to suggest someone find out by wrapping a live round in something that will harden, contain some pressure and then, if the round goes off, turn into shrapnel.
As to what happens to it if some kid gets it down the road: Does it really effect the outcome if they cannot tie it back to the person who made it? The fact is, in a garage sale - or sitting in a pile of old stuff that was thrown out or given to goodwill - a parent is likely to assume it is inert and let a child play with it where they wouldn't if it was a loose (apparently live) round. If a child does try to burn, or otherwise destroy it, and it goes off, the point is not if they know who made it to place blame - it's that someone may get hurt because of the innappropriate use of live ammo.
When I said significant heat, I'm not talking about 140 deg F.
It's likely that what the OP has is some form of ployester resin, along the lines of fiberglass resin. Mixed correctly, those can top 170 F. Too much resin and they can top out over noticably over 200 F. I know this because one of the things I've had to mout are automotive thermostats. They begin to open at 165 F. If we don't drill and drain the power pill, the mount is ruined when the thermostat opens and cracks the plastic in half. Even 185 deg thermostats will open often enough that we drill out the powerpill on those too.
Will 200 F ignite a primer? I don't know. I'm also not going to suggest someone find out by wrapping a live round in something that will harden, contain some pressure and then, if the round goes off, turn into shrapnel.
As to what happens to it if some kid gets it down the road: Does it really effect the outcome if they cannot tie it back to the person who made it? The fact is, in a garage sale - or sitting in a pile of old stuff that was thrown out or given to goodwill - a parent is likely to assume it is inert and let a child play with it where they wouldn't if it was a loose (apparently live) round. If a child does try to burn, or otherwise destroy it, and it goes off, the point is not if they know who made it to place blame - it's that someone may get hurt because of the innappropriate use of live ammo.
Claude Clay
Member
9 9's safe but i would still not use a live round.
but if you do, let us know how TSA feels about finding it in your luggage
or the Postal Service finding it in a package....
lots of stuff finds its way inside acrilic, why not a pretty shinny brass object?
i have made lots of dummy rounds; some with used primers and nail polish red heads for the classroom. others with the anvil removed and the
primer a color different from factory ammo for failour drills.
but if you do, let us know how TSA feels about finding it in your luggage
or the Postal Service finding it in a package....
lots of stuff finds its way inside acrilic, why not a pretty shinny brass object?
i have made lots of dummy rounds; some with used primers and nail polish red heads for the classroom. others with the anvil removed and the
primer a color different from factory ammo for failour drills.
Last edited:
jcwit
member
Neither am I, that was only the ambient outside temp, the temp inside an enclosed container sitting in the noonday sun is much hotter, comprehend?
BTW the word container means those large containers seen on rail flatcars not an ammo can.
The above is a moot point as this can happen whether encased in plastic or not. Encased in plastic makes it more likely to be tampered with by a child? You gotta be joking. If anything its probably safer encased in plastic.
LibShooter
Member
When I was a kid, I got a resin paperweight kit for Christmas. Here are a few things I encased in plastic:
Peppermint candies,
Glass Christmas tree ornaments,
Oreo cookies,
A Hot Wheels car.
None of these things are explosive but they are probably more fragile and heat sensitive than a 30-06 cartridge.
Peppermint candies,
Glass Christmas tree ornaments,
Oreo cookies,
A Hot Wheels car.
None of these things are explosive but they are probably more fragile and heat sensitive than a 30-06 cartridge.
Sport45
Member
No, it doesn't. There have been many experiments and nobody has come up with a way to safely and reliably deactivate primers. At least no method I've come across.
I'd make a dummy with a live primer or a spent primer. Leaving the primer pocket empty might make it hard to avoid a bubble in the mount.
moxie
Member
When one deals with firearms and ammunition on a regular basis, it becomes apparent that strict discipline is called for. One of the rules is that you never "play" with live ammo or explosives, even if it looks safe. A professional just won't do it. The same logic applies rule #1 of gun safety: "All guns are always loaded." Over time, strict observance to safety rules pays off. As an explosives and weapons safety officer I investigated a number of fatal and near-fatal accidents and incidents. They are ALWAYS the result of failure to observe safety rules and a basic lack of respect for explosives and weapons.
Sav .250
Member
A "live" round as a trinket? Render it useless, then your good to go.
ny32182
Member
Since I'm already a reloader I would make dummies, entirely to save the powder and primer for their intended use. If I wasn't, I would just use live rounds.
You need a sustained SEVERAL hundred degrees, or a SHARP smack right on the primer to set off a round. The round sitting in the chamber of your rifle after you've done two or three mag dumps is being subjected to far more heat than any atmospheric condition you will ever find on Earth.
It will be much "safer" encased in plastic than it is when encased in your ammo can.
I wouldn't put it in my carry-on bag or take it to school, but not because I'd be worried they would try to section it up in an effort to figure out whether it is an evil live round.
You need a sustained SEVERAL hundred degrees, or a SHARP smack right on the primer to set off a round. The round sitting in the chamber of your rifle after you've done two or three mag dumps is being subjected to far more heat than any atmospheric condition you will ever find on Earth.
It will be much "safer" encased in plastic than it is when encased in your ammo can.
I wouldn't put it in my carry-on bag or take it to school, but not because I'd be worried they would try to section it up in an effort to figure out whether it is an evil live round.
steelerdude99
Member
It “may be safe”, but illegal to take to certain places. The TSA agent may or may not know it was not a live round, but that may not matter. If it's actually a live round, you may be sitting in prison. If these “ornaments” would find their way to a school, then you would have an expelled child and/or one w/ a police record.
chuck
chuck
sounds like a bomb to me. i'd not be afraid of walking around with a pocket full of live rounds all year. if one went off in my pocket, i probably wouldn't enjoy it, but i doubt it would do more damage than a paintball.
but a round encased in hard resin? no thanks
but a round encased in hard resin? no thanks
jcwit
member
So whats to make the "bomb" go off? RF?
No different than rounds in a revolver cylinder.
You'll be fine. If possible, I'd still use a dummy round with a spent primer for molding, but there's little risk. Even if you were able to ignite the powder, a round without a barrel doesn't pose major risks. See mythbusters ammunition in a fire. Of all the times I've left ammunition in a 140 degree car, I'm not worried about a water-based resin.
longdayjake
Member
Yeah but when you completely encase the round, it isn't the bullet you have to worry about. Its the shrapnel of what comes off the casing. That is what people are worried about. And don't think that a round without a barrel is not dangerous. A while back there was a photo floating around the net of what happens to your hand when you use a 50 cal round as a hammer (not much left). Mythbusters is just about anything but scientific when it comes to their gun and explosion experiments. That said, they are for entertainment and that is really what matters anyway.
If anyone wants to send me some of that epoxy I would be glad to do a mythbusters episode of my own about what it would take to make the round go off. I would throw it, drop it, drag it behind my car, use a magnifying glass, burn it, shoot it, and finally swear at it.
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
