Saiga 20gauge @ CDNN?

[Lovegasoline]

I've been listening to the forum advice on a 20g semi-auto (specifically the Rem 1100) to minimize recoil to shoulder injured shooters. At this point, the Rem 1100 is too pricey new and no chance of finding one used in NYC...online not really better deals.
In my CDNN catalog they list a EAA SAIGA gas operated semi-auto 20g/chambered 2.75" /22" barrel/5rd Mag. Sells for $179. Rather inexpensive.
Anyone have any experience shooting this shotgun or care to offer their impressions?
Thanks a bunch.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Some of the folks have gotten these in 12 gauge for 'Serious" usem IDPA and 3 gun stuff. Consensus is they're a bargain.

Dunno about clays and hunting.

 

[Lovegasoline]

Dave, I seem to see alot of feedback covering the 12g but can't seem to find anything on the 20g. I had just read that the Saiga was initially introduced into the Soviet Military in .410g configuration. I suppose they are the same system & controls anyway. Might tide me over till I figure out what to do with shoulders.
Sure is cheap for $179 new.
Thanks and cheers.

 

[Dave McCracken]

They're Kalishnikovs. Sturdy and reliable, but the esthetics are questionable.

IMO, good deal on a tough, heavy shotgun. If you can swing the weight, it'll probably be rather light kicking.

 

[JA]

I bought a Saiga 410 in 1995. With almost 500 rds fired in it so far of 3" shells from Federal,S&B,Winchester,Remington,Chalenger,and Barnaul
steel case shells it has been 100% reliable.
I have a Saiga 12 I got last month and it has been 100% reliable with all the 2-3/4" and 3" shells fired in it. So far I have fired
25 rd boxes of
Rottweil 1 ounce game load
Rottweil 1-1/4 ounce super game load
S&B 2-3/4" OO buck
2-10rd boxes of Barnaul steel case 00 buck
1-5rd box of Federal 3" slugs
A friend has a Saiga 20 and he said his has been 100% reliable with 2 boxes of Remington dove loads,box of Federal high brass #6, and 2-5rd boxes of Remington slugs. The only draw back on the 20 gauge is if you want to fire 3" shells you have to buy a 3" mag as they come with one 2-3/4" mag.

 

[tbige]

A REALLY nice auto at a great price would be CZ's new offering...before price goes up.

 

[JShirley]

Been wanting a Saiga-12 for years. American Rifleman , as I recall, had a fairly positive review, as did Soldier of Fortune .

In the SOF article, one engineer, miffed at the perceived insult when asked if the Saiga was as dependable as an AK, scooped up a handful of sand and gravel, poured it into the receiver and shook it up, then handed it to the author for testing. No problema.

John

 

[Lovegasoline]

Thanks for the feedback.

One issue is that the 20g Saiga does not have a bolt lock back feature. I'm told that in order to insert a full mag into the reciever the bolt has to be back. Also, I'm getting feedback that many shooting ranges demand a bolt lock back on SGs for safety reasons.
Can someone explain the idea of bolt lock back? I'm fuzzy about the function and the danger of a semi-auto lacking the feature.
The only other issues are an extremely short distance between the sights (and not too hot sights at that) and lack of aftermarket parts....like a stocks to get a good fit.

Tbige: What CZ are you refering to? Can you elaborate & also give approx $$. The BESTt thing the Saiga has going is price.

 

[JA]

When I lived in Memphis,TN I shot at the public range run by the Shelby county govt. on county land. Every 30 mins the range officer would call on the PA for every one to lock your guns open that were on the shooting bench and step behind the yellow line painted on the ground 18" behind the benches. You couldn't step over the yellow line or touch anything on the bench till the Command to do so was given by the RO. Then trusties from the county penal farm would walk down the line of shooting benches on each side of the RO office looking to see all guns were locked open. They would give the RO the thumbs up at the end of each line and he would announce that it was safe to go down range to check/replace targets. Revolvers had to have the cylinder open,semi auto/pumps the bolts/slides locked open,and actions open on single shot/double barrels. The semi autos that didn't have a bolt hold open had to have a empty cartridge placed sticking upright out of the action to show the bolt was not locked.
****So all guns were unloaded and didn't have a round in the chamber while people were down range.****
There was no way for a accidental discharge from a loaded gun with a round in the chamber if someone bumped a gun while walking by,wind blows your spotting scope over and it hits a guns trigger,a gun knocked/fell off the bench,etc......
When everyone came back from down range the RO called the line hot and you could step over the yellow line to the bench and start shooting.
There were 25 benches on one side of the RO office and 18 on the other side. So on weekends it was packed there would be at least 43 people there shooting and most would have more than 1 gun. Also they would have friends/wives/kids shareing benches with them. So we are talking 43 to 100 people with 43 to 100+ guns on the benches at any given time all pointing down range while you changed targets. So all bolts locked open was a must do to keep someone from getting shot.

 

[MrMurphy]

I've shot the Saiga 12, two mags full. The short sight radius was not a problem for the ranges I was using it at (25m and under) and from the guy who owned it slugs weren't a real problem, he could hit anything he really wanted to. Friend of mine bought a Saiga 20 for his 18 yr old daughter, she loves it. Apparently no problems in several hundred yards.

The stock is short like on an AK, but most people can shoot shorter stocks easily (most combat shotguns the first thing they do it put a shorter stock on it anyways so it fits right). Having five rounds and another five ready within a few seconds is very nice.

 

[Lovegasoline]

Thanks for the feedback and explanations.

I have one more question for those have shot the Saiga 12 (not 20).
What was recoil like?
I'm getting reports that the Saiga 12 has minimal recoil...but I cannot gage if the info is exaggerated to make the SG out to be better than it is. I have little to compare it to, since I haven't shot a long arm in 20 years. I have sensitive shoulder/injuries so I need a lighter recoil SG. Is the Saiga really THAT minimal in recoil or is that wishful thinking?
Lack of BOlt Open Lock on the Saiga 20 is enough to make me pass on it. The Saiga 12 has it.
Thanks a bunch.
Neal

 

[JA]

Using 1 ounce dove loads the Saiga 12 has very light recoil. But if you are injured then get the Saiga 410. As a friend of mine that has a ruptured disk in his back shot my Saiga 410 and really liked it's light recoil because it didn't hurt him to shoot it. He bought a Saiga 20 because "410 shells cost too much" but it hurt him to shoot even with light dove loads. So now he has been on to me to trade my 410 for his 20. I told him to buy himself one as CDNN has the Saiga 410's for $159.

 

[akanotken]

Saigas recoil comparison

IMO, the 20 is noticably softer than the 12ga (not a forgone conclusion as the lighter gun conteracts the lighter shell). This is from a side by side comparision of birdshot loads.

Lack of hold open can be fixed in a couple of ways. They make an aftermarket mod. Check out the saiga forum for details. I have had luck at the ranges that I shoot at by sticking a hull in the chamber sideways (poor mans chamber flag). Gun is easy identified as safe. Lastly, I've heard you can cut a notch in the safety (it's a long lever on the right side like all good AK's are born with) that will catch the bolt handle to hold it open. You do not have to have the bolt open to load a mag. It's easier to get one in that way, but practice a bit and you can do it with out it being open. Basically, a closed bolt forces the top shell in the mag down a touch if closed. I'm guessing loading a partial mag would be even easier!

You want optimal pattern/recoil reduction go with the 28 ga. If on a budget, get an auto from charles daly(lightweight) or ou from EAA (heavy). Take a few extra dollars and buy a reloader. with the light payload you'll reload pretty cheap! With the cost of factory shells you'll be much happier! If you don't want to reload, save those hulls as they can be sold for good $$ and will offset the cost a bit.