Savage website - good news/bad news

[Onslaught]

I was just looking at the newly updated Savage Arms website and noticed a couple of changes.

Good:

The AccuTrigger is now available on nearly all of their centerfire rifles rather than just the LE and Varmint series. Even the "WallyWorld" package deals have the awesome AccuTrigger.

They also appear to have added a couple more left handed versions, making them by far the most southpaw friendly rifle company out there.

Bad:

Nowhere on the website can I find the Savage Scout. I was thinking not too long ago that I wanted a Scout rifle at somepoint in the distant future, and that I should just wait until Savage added the AT to the lineup... Then I could get one by 2004's end, or maybe early 2005.

I haven't called them yet, but I plan on it. I guess, worst case scenario, for you righties anyway, you can just buy the 11FC, shorten the barrel by 2" and add an Ashley Scout Mount and ghost ring sights.

 

[Razor]

It's still there:

http://www.savagearms.com/10fcm.htm

 

[tcdrennen]

The link is good, but you still can't get there from the side pull down menus. May be a web site goof, but wierd.

 

[Razor]

...but you still can't get there from the side pull down menus.

Really? That's the way I got to it, under the Ultra Light Series menu selections.

 

[No4Mk1]

I didn't see it in the side menu either....

 

[Razor]

In the Ultra Light Series, then Scout 10FCM?

 

[tcdrennen]

Nope - 3 choices under "Ultra Light & Classic": Sierra 10FM, Safari Express 116SE, Ultra 114U. All have a 'New!" tag next to them.

No "Ultra Light Series" selection available.

Razor - you may be seeing a cached page from your own computer; if you reload it, I bet it'll come up as we're seeing it.

 

[Razor]

you may be seeing a cached page from your own computer; if you reload it, I bet it'll come up as we're seeing it.

Ah, I see... I hate computers....

Still can't get the version ya'll are seeing to come up, though...:banghead:

 

[Onslaught]

I called them directly this afternoon and spoke to "Effie" with the custom shop.

Savage HAS discontinued the Scout. She said she didn't have any information as to why. You can still have one built through the custom shop, but the price she quoted me was $780!

Razor,

If you go to "Tools/Internet Options" and choose "Delete Files" then close your browser and open a new one, you should see the latest page.

Another tip... under "Tools"/Internet Options" choose the "Advanced" tab, scroll to the bottom under "Security" and put a check in the "Empty Temporary Internet Files when the Browser is closed". That way, every time you close your browser, your Cache is cleared.

 

[Razor]

You can still have one built through the custom shop, but the price she quoted me was $780!

Well, dang. I'm glad I decided to hang onto mine then. I almost sold it for $300 last summer.

Thanks for those PC tips. Still can't get the updated site to come up, though. :banghead:

Finally got the updated site to load up!!! Whoo-hooo!!! And people wonder why I mostly lurk around...

I am kinda suprised that they discontinued their Scout, though. It's a handy little rifle.

 

[E=MC^2]

Just as I requested.
Stevens Favorite Takedown Model

 

[No4Mk1]

I'll be happy to part with mine for $750 if anyone is interested....

I imagine the demand for them was too light to justify the continued production. Glad I picked mine up when I did. Very handy rifle.

 

[nismofun]

Can't you just get a 10FM and mount a scout scope base on it?

 

[Onslaught]

Oh, you can definitely still build your own...

Technically, to build one just like the Savage Scout, you'd need:

Savage 11FC (the model with detachable mag)

Then you'd need to have the barrel shortened 2" from 22". (or down 3" to 19" if you're going with the Cooper model)
You'd have to have a front sight (I'd go with Ashley) added to the now shortened barrel, and you'd need a ghost ring rear sight (again, I'd go with Ashley).

Lastly, you'd need that Scout mount. I don't know if BSquare ever offered their Savage scout mount seperately, but it wasn't highly regarded anyway. For the third time, I'd say Ashley for the Scout mount, and then you'd have a gen-yoo-wine Scout rifle It would actually be better than the original (IMHO) because it would have the awesome AccuTrigger on it.

 

[Gewehr98]

Egads!

Good: The AccuTrigger is now available on nearly all of their centerfire rifles rather than just the LE and Varmint series. Even the "WallyWorld" package deals have the awesome AccuTrigger.

That liability-lawyer trigger is considered a good, even awesome, thing?

The folks I work with who buy Savage varmint series usually make the removal of the AccuTrigger, and it's subsequent replacement with a Rifle Basix or other clean-breaking trigger, their first order of business.

Before:

After:

Next I'll hear that the bolt shroud lock (now being reported elsewhere on THR as discontinued) on the Remington 700's was Neat-O.

 

[swingset]

That liability-lawyer trigger is considered a good, even awesome, thing?

Think real hard about what you're ridiculing here. Seriously.

When, in the history of firearms, has a budget-minded company (or even some high end ones) offered a truly adjustable and reliably safe trigger on a sub-$400 gun?!?!?!?!?!?!?

And, FWIW, I have the Accutrigger on my 12FV and find it VERY crisp. I've laid down 3/8" groups at 100 yards with it, straight from the box. If this is a bad thing in your world, I'm glad you're not in charge of mine.

Come to think of it, why not complain to Savage and maybe they'll go back to the old trigger. :banghead:

 

[Onslaught]

That liability-lawyer trigger is considered a good, even awesome, thing?

Awesome for out of the box, absolutely....

Better by light years than the triggers that came before them....

I'm no long range shooter, so I was completely ignoring the plethora of aftermarket goodies that crappy out of the box triggers have made so neccessary.

Don't know about the bolt shroud lock, as Savage is the only bolt gun I have any experience with at all...

 

[Gewehr98]

Onslaught, before you continue to bust my chops, you're missing the point.

In other words, what brought about the AccuTrigger to begin with? Savage, or more precisely, their liability lawyers, weren't comfortable with their original single-trigger version being tweaked or adjusted down to a lightweight clean pull. Nor would they ship one from the factory with anything less than a gawd-awful heavy pull. So they compromised and came out with the "trigger-within-a-trigger" AccuTrigger. The idea is that an inadvertent discharge won't happen because the safety interlock has to be pulled back before the real trigger, now adjusted back down to a decent pull weight, can be moved. Win-win situation, right, everybody's happy, it's revolutionary! People forget so soon...

I didn't belittle a crisp trigger that allows 3/8" groups at 100 yards, or your capability to do so with that gun. I belittled the corporate mindset that adds another piece of monkey-motion to consumer firearms, much like the aforementioned Remington 700 bolt shroud locks, S&W hammer key locks, and Colt Series 80 lockwork.

The young NCO who works for me at my squadron just bought the Savage 10-series heavy barrel .308 varminter before Thanksgiving. I gave him my factory-triggered, yet safely-adjusted 700PSS to work with the same day he took the Savage to the range. He did very well with the Savage and 168gr MatchKing loads. But he's already got the Savage out of it's stock and waiting for his replacement trigger and stock to arrive. Don't get me wrong, he saved a lot of money over the 700PSS by going with the Savage. He spent the extra money on a nice Leupold VariX-III 6.5-20 scope w/mounts, and will lay down just a little more coin for the replacement trigger and new laminated stock.

BTW, I've owned older Remington 700's (BDL's and cheaper ADL's) that had very nice triggers, as well as a Browning BAR, pre-'64 Winchesters, and vintage Remington recoil-autoloaders that broke nice and clean. So I am thinking real hard about what I'm ridiculing, when companies for many, many years offered decent triggers. Even the budget Remington 521T I competed with as a kid 25+ years ago had a nice clean trigger.

My competition, tactical, and varmint guns often wear Canjars and Jewells. My hunting rifles wear Timneys or Daytons. Definitely not budget-minded, certainly, but it does make the AccuTrigger something different in my world, you are absolutely correct. But it doesn't mean we have to accept compromise all the time. I can't be the only one who isn't keen on the AccuTrigger, otherwise folks like RifleBasix wouldn't even bother, would they?

Savage makes a darned good rifle for the money. I'd even tell somebody to buy one if they don't want to shell out the coin for a 700VLS or the more expensive 700PSS. But for an additional $150, you get an even better rifle with a 4oz - 3lb adjustable trigger, without being reminded that somebody doesn't trust you to have one. And I know folks spend at least that much extra to put decent glass on their guns, so the sub-$400 rifle is just a starting point...

 

[Master Blaster]

Savage makes a darned good rifle for the money. I'd even tell somebody to buy one if they don't want to shell out the coin for a 700VLS or the more expensive 700PSS. But for an additional $150, you get an even better rifle with a 4oz - 3lb adjustable trigger, without being reminded that somebody doesn't trust you to have one. And I know folks spend at least that much extra to put decent glass on their guns, so the sub-$400 rifle is just a starting point...

Funny I was looking at the very guns you mention just three months ago, the wonderful remmington pss had a fabulous trigger, about 6lbs out of the box It had same exact trigger as on my wally world adl, the gent at my local gunshop had one himself, and he said that for only another $150 I could get a good trigger on that pss, the PSS was only $925 OTD. so for $1075
I could have a great trigger on the remmington (after I had a Timney or Jewel installed). My local FFL could order it at cost for $150 less so only $925 with an aftermarket unit.

The savage le II I bought was $420 with the accutrigger. When my FFL and I put a trigger pull weight set on it, it had come from the factory set at 1.25lbs. The manual said I could adjust it up to 6lbs with the included adjustment tool. My FFL who has been shooting rifles for longer than I have been alive thought that it was one of the best factory triggers he has ever seen, and close to as good as one of the aftermarket models.

I have been shooting mine for a while now and the accutrigger actually feels better than when it was new.

Some of the benchrest shooters at my club examined it as well and were quite impressed by it.

So until yoou actually have handled the savage you might want to temper your criticsim of it.

 

[Master Blaster]

From Savages website:

AccuTriggerâ„¢
Introducing the new Savage AccuTriggerâ„¢... A revolutionary design that will forever change the way shooters expect triggers to function.

Savage is constantly searching for new products or innovations that provide a true benefit to shooters. The trigger is one significant area that captured Savage's attention. Most triggers found in firearms produced today have a very heavy pull. The reason is quite simple...liability. Manufacturers cannot afford to ship firearms with triggers that could accidentally discharge; therefore, they design their firearms with heavy trigger pulls.

Almost all triggers can be adjusted to some degree. Some triggers have a screw that can be adjusted in order to reduce spring pressure on the sear mechanism, while others require a gunsmith to polish the mating components to reduce sear engagement. Adjustments to factory triggers can create an unsafe condition and usually void the factory warranty.

Savage is a unique company. Its managers, including the owner, are shooters and hunters. They listen to other shooters to understand what they want (and don't want) in a firearm. Most shooters are frustrated with a legal system that mandates the design of heavy triggers. They don’t feel they should be required to buy a firearm and then pay a gunsmith to have the trigger adjusted.

Savage challenged its engineering team to design a completely new trigger system that would give shooters what they desired. It took several years, but Savage’s new AccuTrigger™ meets every objective.

The AccuTriggerâ„¢ is Easily Adjustable

In most centerfire hunting models for 2004, the AccuTriggerâ„¢ is adjustable from approximately 2 1/2 lbs to 6 lbs, giving the shooter the flexibility to set the trigger pull to individual preference without paying a gunsmith to adjust the trigger. In the 12 Series Varmint and Law Enforcement Series, the AccuTriggerâ„¢ is adjustable from approximately 1 1/2lbs to 6lbs.

Adjustment of the AccuTriggerâ„¢ is easy. Simply remove the stock and rotate the return spring with the tool supplied with the rifle. The AccuTriggerâ„¢ has a single adjustment location and is designed so it cannot be adjusted below the minimum setting.

The AccuTrigger is Completely Safe

The AccuTriggerâ„¢ is completely safe and cannot accidentally discharge from being jarred or dropped when maintained and adjusted as intended. The trigger is designed with an integrated AccuReleaseâ„¢ that must be completely depressed or the rifle cannot fire. While pulling the trigger, the AccuReleaseâ„¢ is intentionally depressed, which unblocks the sear and allows the rifle to discharge.

A newly designed teardrop safety is an additional feature on rifles with the new trigger. It provides for better acquisition of the safety button and operates smoother and quieter.

The AccuTriggerâ„¢ is Extremely Crisp and Exhibits No Creep.

Savage used sophisticated software to compare objective measurements of their new AccuTrigger™ with competitors’ triggers. These comparisons confirmed there is a graphic and repeatable difference between the AccuTrigger™ and all other triggers tested. This objective method of testing demonstrated the new Savage system has a lighter trigger pull than all the other major brands. In fact, the AccuTrigger™ was lighter than a top-of-the-line imported brand and a custom aftermarket trigger. Testing also revealed the AccuTrigger™ was much smoother, crisper, broke cleaner and demonstrated less creep than any other factory-built trigger tested.

See and use the future of the industry — the Savage AccuTrigger™--the trigger system that makes all others obsolete.

 

[Gewehr98]

I wouldn't have commented if I hadn't already spent some bench time using one.

Does it need to be more tempered than that? :banghead:

I'm glad an FFL likes that trigger. I'm glad a benchrester likes that trigger. Ask that benchrester if he'd like to have that trigger transplanted to his Stolle Panda, Shilen DGR, or Nesika Bay action, I'd love to hear his answer.

I've shot that trigger. Sure, it has a lighter pull weight than the current crop of off-the-shelf mass-produced rifles. That's the pull weight of the real trigger, once you move the safety interlock to the rear. Why do we have to have that safety interlock? Because Savage deemed it necessary, for liability's sake, in lieu of a heavy single-leg trigger. They knew shooters were in a quest for a light, clean-breaking trigger, and in that quest, most of the consumers shouldn't be too terribly disappointed that there was a safety interlock "pretrigger" attached to it.

BTW, my 700PSS breaks clean on my NRA trigger pull weight stack at a clean 3.0 pounds. I didn't have to add a safety interlock "pre-trigger" afterwards, either. It passes recoil pad slam test, no problem. You can either pay a gunsmith to adjust it, or look up the procedure online. You'll need fingernail polish remover to dissolve the sealant on the adjustment screws.

But hey, thanks for the verbatim from the Savage website. I would never have thought that a company selling something would extol the virtues of their own product.

Is that trigger usable? Certainly. If people don't know there's better out there, will they just go with the status quo? Probably. Remington's been selling the 710, that's proof enough. But options do exist to make a good product better. And that, in itself, is awesome.

 

[ShaiVong]

Well I'm satisfied with a win-win situation. I know its sad that they have to put a doodad on it to protect themselves; but atleast they managed to make a respectable factory trigger with it. They could have just added that extra thing to a horrible 12lb trigger and made a Ruger/Glock unholy alliance.

The fact that they need a doodad isnt a black mark against Savage; its a black mark against the cretins of this society who look for every little weakness that can be twisted into liability.

 

[Onslaught]

Onslaught, before you continue to bust my chops, you're missing the point.

NoSir, no chop busting from me personally. I'll use more smileys next time.

I don't think I missed your point. I'm just coming at it from a different WORLD than you. You need (or want) the best of the best from your trigger.

For me, the AccuTrigger is THE best trigger I've ever laid hands on, period. That alone should show you how few "premium" rifle triggers I've handled previously (zero). So I'm coming at this with no previous experience, no set expectations, blank slate. In that situation, all I can say about the trigger is "wow, awesome, great, wonderful" etc. I even LIKE the doohickie in the middle. It's like a 2 stage trigger in reverse...

The adjustable, crisp, light trigger was not the idea of any lawyer, just the doohickie... so it's a great, awesome trigger, with a liability lawyer thingamabob... which for me, is better than the old trigger.

See, no chop busting.

 

[Detritus]

If I may... very politely interject my own thoughts after read the whole "accu-trigger= best since sliced bread Vs there's even BETTER aftermarkets out there so why bother" borderline argument in this thread..


First I will make clear,I am NOT taking either side in this both have valid points!!

Now on one hand you have the group (albeit from what I have personally observed a proportionally small group, but that's NOT the issue, group’s a group) represented by Gewehr. That holds the two following beliefs

A> that the whole accu-trigger thing is just another unwanted and unwarranted intrusion by the slimy end of a litigious society into the lives of the American gun owner.

B.that furthermore the accu-trigger does not have a distinct advantage over the aftermarket units from the likes of Timney, Jewell Etc.

and thus Gewehr expressed these feelings on the matter and to be quite frank came across just a slight bit as if the idea that even a semi-serious shooter would LIKE the A-T and think it was great, was an affront to all shooters and a slide down a slope into some legal morass. (this may not have been his intent, but that’s how it reads to me, that "giving into the lawyers even a little so as to avoid litigation toward the maker= an evil thing")

Now the other side sees the accu-trigger in the following way....

It's the Best factory trigger most of them have ever experienced, it's light-years better than the factory Triggers found on many guns that cost near twice as much, much less those on guns that are in a similar price bracket as the Savage.

Well over 70-80% of the shooting public, will NEVER notice much less find a need for, the increase in the "good aspects" that true match tuned triggers possess over the levels of those same qualities achieved by the Accu-trigger.
Not to mention that in the eyes of many the Accu-trigger at least APPEARS (not all of us have first hand knowledge of such things) to be easier to adjust that the typical aftermarket "match trigger group". Even if it DOES use a special tool to make the adjustments.

As for myself, I’m of the "it's the best off the shelf I’ve seen and I really like it" camp, and I plan to buy at least one A-T equipped Savage (a 12FV or 10FP in .308) to get back into shooting out to around 600yrds (eventually). Maybe one day I’ll find that a trigger upgrade is needed or wanted, but at MY current skill level etc, the extra money would be wasted.


different backgrounds to work from, most times differing types and amounts of usage, results in wildly varying opinions on a device that DOES contain almost all the aspects that have been hashed out here as Pro and Con.
YES it's a "lawyer trigger" but at least it's not a "GOD AWFUL lawyer trigger" savage managed to make a "lawyer safe" trigger that isn't a overly stiff, gritty, creepy, POS.

That works for me, I know it does not work for some, and I’m not trying to change anyone's mind.
And hey this is America, no one's gonna take you out back and shoot you just because you have a different opinion on something.

 

[Master Blaster]

The other encouraging thing about the accu-trigger is that someone is listening to the consumer rather than the lawyers at the big rifle companies.

That will raise the bar for the other companies, and hopefully we will soon see remington, and winchester introduce a better trigger on their rifles as well.

I'm glad an FFL likes that trigger. I'm glad a benchrester likes that trigger. Ask that benchrester if he'd like to have that trigger transplanted to his Stolle Panda, Shilen DGR, or Nesika Bay action, I'd love to hear his answer.

I see lots of custom rifles at my club, the folks who own them spend more on the barrell than I spent on my whole rifle with the scope, I see $2-3,000 rigs all the time, I also see folks with springfield 03's who shoot darn near as well or better with their plain jane 50 year old rifles.

I just glad that I can get a rifle with excellent accuracy and a decent trigger for a price I can afford.

That's the pull weight of the real trigger, once you move the safety interlock to the rear.

we used a set of hanging weights to test the trigger, 1.25lbs includes the force that was needed to move the safety to the rear. as far as my FFL goes he competes at camp perry every year, for the last 40 years. So he knows a little bit about firearms.