Scout Scope vs. Red Dot

[hube1236]

I will be getting a 16 inch 308 fairly soon because I want to.

I have handled the model I want with a scout scope (2.5X20) with gobs of eye relief and thought how wonderful it is to get a slight magnification to make thhose 100 - 200 yrd shots possible. I am looking for roughly 2-4 MOA so nothing more than that mag would be required at the distances I am looking at.

Aimpoint has a dot with 2X and 4 MOA dot.

The use of the rifle would be tac rifle matches along with my AR (223- with a dot).

I ask because the scout scope with rings is ~$150, the dot with mount is $350.

Before the answer, while I really would like a gun that hammers the x-ring on a target located on the surface of Jupiter, the purpose of the gun is TOPS 350 yrds with average about 75 yrds and center of mass and 4 -8 inch steel plates.

What do you think?

 

[444]

First of all, let me say that you have realistic expectations.
I have rifles with both: a lever action Marlin 444 with a Leupold Scout Scope and a couple AR15s with Aimpoint ML2 red dot optics on them.
Personally, I would go with a red dot optic with no magnification if it was me. If you are going to be shooting steel plates and might some day count on your rifle for defensive purposes I think this is the best option. I have shot pepper poppers at 400 yards and hit a lot more than I missed. The dot also works at night.
If your rifle has a rail on it, you might eventually get both along with some QD rings and can switch them out at will.

 

[Northwest Cajun]

I would go with the 2.75X burris scout scope. 8" steel plates at 200 yds are not a problem with my guide gun. I'm having a .338-06 built with a scout scope. I dont think a red dot will get you out to 200 yds, (having never used one). You would have to get the smallest dot avilable.

Cajun

 

[Preacherman]

I'd go with the scout scope. Two advantages:

1. The crosshairs are very narrow, whereas the red dot is often 4-8 MOA. At longer ranges, this can obscure your target (e.g. a man's chest area at 200-300 yards).

2. There are no batteries to go flat in a scout scope!

I took Thunder Ranch's General Purpose Rifle course with a Steyr Scout rifle fitted with the Leupold 2.5x Scout Scope. I had no trouble making consistent hits out to 300 yards, including their "Jungle Walk" with targets set at varying distances (that you had to determine for yourself).

 

[David Park]

I haven't heard many good things about the Aimpoint 2x red dots, and I'm not sure what else is available. You could get an ACOG with BAC, but then you won't have the long eye relief of your other choices.

 

[Big_R]

On my scout rifle, I have a Burris 2 3/4 X with a German reticle (don't know if it's made any more). It's more than adequate for those ranges. I also have a scout mount and red dot on a M-44. I prefer the Burris. I'd put a Burris on my Mosin, however, I can't see spending 4 times the cost of a rifle on a scope.

Ryan

 

[444]

" I can't see spending 4 times the cost of a rifle on a scope."

Why ?

 

[Preacherman]

You could always mount a low-power pistol scope instead of using a Scout scope. The pistol scopes can be had for less than $30 shipped (see CDNN, for example), and most of them should be adequate for your purposes. Unfortunately, they're adjusted for parallax at a rather closer range than a proper Scout scope: but this is something you can learn to live with, and by saving a lot of money, you can buy more ammo!

 

[444]

" dont think a red dot will get you out to 200 yds"
" The crosshairs are very narrow, whereas the red dot is often 4-8 MOA. At longer ranges, this can obscure your target (e.g. a man's chest area at 200-300 yards)."

As I noted in my previous post, I don't feel this is an issue. I have taken two different formal carbine classes where we shot out to 400 yards. One was at pepper poppers and the other was a steel silhouette simulating the upper torso of a human. I had very little problem hitting these targets with an Aimpoint non-magnified optic with a 4 MOA dot. Granted, I didn't hit the pepper popper every time, but could do so fairly consistantly. One trick with this is to zero your weapon so that the very tip of the dot is your point of impact. You use the dot just like you would use an iron front sight. This provides a precise sight picture. At close range for COM shots, the whole dot is used.

"There are no batteries to go flat in a scout scope!"
This is true, however the battery life for an Aimpoint ML2 is something like a year. This is if you never turn it off. Assuming you do at least some kind of preventitive maintainance, I don't think that battery life will be an issue.

 

[natedog]

to zero your weapon so that the very tip of the dot is your point of impact

What reticule pattern does your Aimpoint have, and what model is it? I was under the impression that dots (circles) didn't have points .

 

[444]

I was under the impression from high school geometry that a circle or sphere is made up of an infinite number of points. In this case, the point at exactly twelve o'clock is the one in question.

To easily see that this whole dot covering the target thing is a myth, think about using a set of iron sights. As the target gets further away, the front sight appears to be larger in comparison. It doesn't take much distance before the front sight is larger than the target. Yet no one makes the assumption that you can't shoot because of it. We all know that people shoot bragging sized groups at ranges in excess of 600 yards with iron sights. But, if the sight is electronic, suddenly it becomes impossible.

 

[AlexI]

OK 444, in theory you can use the top of a red dot as you would a front sight.
However, in practice (at least in my admittedly limited expirience), the red dot appears kind of "fuzzy" in many light conditions - not like a clearly visible top of a front sight.
And, as you adjust the brightness of your dot (especially for a bright day), its "visible size" changes - which will move the POI if you sighted in (using the top of the dot) at different brightness.

Alex.

 

[MrPink]

I'm not wild about the 2x version of the Aimpoint - limited field of view and eye relief. I'd go with the Leupold Scout Scope with QD rings so you can use your irons easily if you want to.

Another sight to consider is the EOtech. Non-magnifying "HUD" sight with a fine 1MOA center dot surrounded by an eyecatching 65MOA ring. Also no tube to look through. Top quality construction also.

 

[444]

"And, as you adjust the brightness of your dot (especially for a bright day), its "visible size" changes - which will move the POI if you sighted in (using the top of the dot) at different brightness."

I have never done any tests with this, but I don't believe this is true. The dot is 4 MOA. It doesn't say 4 MOA with one brightness setting and something else at a different brightness setting.

"the red dot appears kind of "fuzzy" in many light conditions - not like a clearly visible top of a front sight. "

This is something I have experimented with. If you have the brightness setting up too high for the ambient light, the dot will change from round to a blurred image. All that is required is to use a brightness setting that gives you a nice clean, easy to see sight picture and no more. As I mentioned before, this isn't all just theory and speculation. I have done this more than once and it proved entirely satisfactory. Another point about the brightness setting which ties into both points. My Aimpoint has, I think, 10 brightness settings (I am not sure). Even through it has 10 settings (or whatever), I only use three. When I am shooting all day from early moring to complete darkness I use alll three settings. If I go out for a couple hours the sight never leaves a single setting. For example, I normally shoot in bright sunlight at the setting of 8. This gives me a nice clean dot in the bright sunlight we have here in the desert. If I am shooting very early in the morning I might dial the brightness down one click and then turn it back to eight when the sun gets fully up. The only other setting I have ever used is "three" which I use in complete darkness. So, 99 % of my shooting is done on the same brightness setting. Now if this is an issue at all (which I don't think it is) it is only an issue when making long range precision shots, which also are a very small percentage of the shooting I do with the dot optic. Again, this whole nice clean dot thing only comes into play if you are taking a long shot at a very precise target; if you carried the rifle with the dot set on 8, this would suffice for the vast majority of your shots. If you needed to make a long range shot you probably have time to make sure everything is perfect and you might want to play with the brightness setting, however this wouldn't be something I would do because I already know that the rifle and the sight are capable of making shots out to the practical limits of the cartridge the rifle is chambered for. Since I have probably fired somewhere around 10,000 rounds using this dot sight, there would be no playing around. I know where to put the brightness setting and seldom mess with it. I have never hunted with a dot optic, but looking back on the big games animals I have taken this would have never been an issue. I shot them all in pretty normal daylight conditions at ranges closer than 100 yards. This includes several elk and numerous deer. After owning both a scout scope (Leupold in Leupold QD rings), and a couple red dot optics, I would much prefer the red dot optic to the scout scope. I am sure others disagree.
If you are thinking of using either a dot sight or a scout scope I assume you are not shooting a benchrest match. You are trying to put a shot in the boiler room of a living target either in a defensive role or in a hunting situation. Either sight is entirely satisfactory for this. That being said, having the POI 1/2" or even 1" from where you would like the bullet to strike is not going to matter and even if it did, this is better than 99.9% of people can shoot in the field.