Search Warrants and the law

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makarova

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According to the Cato Institute, mistaken raids on wrong addresses are an increasing problem. I guess I'm looking for a solution that would work. I don't want the force to kick my door in at 3am. Call me an optimist, but I'm hoping this wont start a cop bashing fest.

My understanding is that a warrant gives legal authority to forcibly enter(no knock)a particular residence. That warrant shouldn't give the authority to enter any other premises. In other words anyone, even LE, are committing a crime by mistakenly entering the wrong premises. Any other crimes such as somebody getting shot, whether LE or not, they should be held accountable.

I'd like to see a law passed nationwide, which would strip LE of immunity and mandate felony prosecution any time a raid is made on the wrong address. Trouble is, actually getting any prosecutor, anywhere to prosecute under such a law is not real likely.

Okay, lets remember, the goal is reducing or eliminating raids on the wrong house. I think my proposal would have that effect. But instead, it'll probably going to be seen as cop bashing or degenerate into that. That wont accomplish anything. High Road everybody.
 
I'd like to see a law passed nationwide, which would strip LE of immunity and mandate felony prosecution any time a raid is made on the wrong address. Trouble is, actually getting any prosecutor, anywhere to prosecute under such a law is not real likely.
I too would like to see some accountability. There should be some higher standard for Judges who sign the warrant. It seems they are rubber stamped on no more grounds than "dirtbag Joe says we can find drugs here". There needs to be a good reason to kick in anyones door.
 
"Print your name and address in big block letters on a sign on your front and back doors. Might help."

Not a bad Idea. When I get home I will have name/address on the mail box, address # over or beside porch and address # on the door.

On my street, odd numbers one side, even on the other unbroken and in order. <>
 
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It doesn't matter if you have your name and address correctly displayed.

The problem is sometimes the numbers are transfixed when the warrant is issued. Like a person make a typo and 669 becomes 696 or Taylor street is now Tyler street.

I think LE should be punished for breaking down the wrong doors. They need to make damn sure the are bothering the right person ESPECIALLY with a no knock set up.
 
I'd like to see a law passed nationwide, which would strip LE of immunity and mandate felony prosecution any time a raid is made on the wrong address. Trouble is, actually getting any prosecutor, anywhere to prosecute under such a law is not real likely.

Government looks after the interests of government first, last, and always.
 
The biggest problem is, that no accountability after the fact will help you, mr law-abiding citizen, who rightfully opened fire on a bunch of men kicking in your door at 3am, and was shot dead for defending yourself and your family.

Accountability is great, getting them to stop screwing up would be a sight better.
 
pcosmar said:
I too would like to see some accountability. There should be some higher standard for Judges who sign the warrant. It seems they are rubber stamped on no more grounds than "dirtbag Joe says we can find drugs here". There needs to be a good reason to kick in anyones door.

I'm not sure if the problem is with the judges, or if it's with the police or prosecutors who submit requests for warrants using faulty supporting evidence.

Regardless, more accountability is needed.

Noxx said:
Accountability is great, getting them to stop screwing up would be a sight better.

The point of accountability is to provide motivation for them to not screw up. If there were significant penalties for screwing up, then police, judges, and prosecutors would be motivated to get it right.

As I understand it, officers are protected from personal accountability when they infringe upon someone's rights (which can include killing) so long as they were acting according to policy. AFAICT it doesn't matter if that policy is flawed, or if the process that led up to an incident was flawed. Unfortunately, the lack of personal responsibility in these instances is part of the problem. I'm not saying that the individual officer breaking down the door necessarily needs to be the one held responsible -- I'm thinking that good officers may participate in a mistaken no-knock raid, when the real mistake was made by some detective with a drugged-up informant or fabricated evidence. But someone needs to be personally responsible, whether it be (as in this example) the detective, or the police chief, sheriff, etc.

We've seen examples lately where bad cops get promoted after being cleared by an internal investigation of acts which are obviously wrong. Where's the personal accountability? I just read the independent review report yesterday about the UCLA student who was tasered multiple times; the independent review condemned the officer's conduct as well as the UCLAPD use of force policy, while an internal review cleared him (and I believe he is still on the job... though there were several previous complaints about this officer using excessive force).

With no personal responsibility, it becomes an issue of money. While the threat of losing money in a civil rights lawsuit can still motivate the government to clean up it's act, it's not nearly as much motivation as the threat of personal civil or even criminal liability. Indeed, the government could decide that the monetary cost is acceptable.
 
that was my point

Apply enough accountability, and I guarantee these guys are going to start paying attention and stop screwing up. How I wish we were able to join a pro-gun group with the juice to ride in like the cavalry and start firing lawsuits in every direction, get prosecutors recalled for failing to take our rights seriously.and make legislators pass laws we need. Not enough of us paying attention I'm afraid. Look at what just a few of have actually accomplished against the desperate efforts of the antis. Now imagine what we could do with substantially larger number of active members. How about what the VCDL has accomplished. I suspect there are some politicians and beauracrats who are wishing they had never heard of or from that outfit!

That reminds me, I gotta write a letter to Zack Space(D) about HR. 1897, the National Park Second Amendment Restoration and Personal Protection Act of 2007. Like it says, he's a Dem and his gun rights outlook is in question until proven. Same goes for Repubs too. These days we have the finest politicians money can buy. They just wont stay bought! I did call his staffers and they blew me off when I told them I didn't represent any particular group. My letter will be marked "personal and confidential" and "eyes only". Maybe that'll get past the gatekeepers. I'll keep this and other forums informed about how this plays out.
 
Accountability is only as good as the upper echelon administrators or local elected officials will allow.

For instance: Federal law protects "whistle-blowers". Even so, many whistle-blowers have been maltreated by superiors all the way up the chain of command.

There are already many laws dealing with accountability. The problem is getting TPTB to enforce them.

Nixon stone-walled Watergate. Police chiefs and city councils stonewall police goofs.

But the accidental typographical errors on search warrants will always be with us. I've yet to see any typist who walks on water.

Art
 
I don't know about the rest of you , but the only reason for "no knocks" should be in possible abduction cases etc . . It's not that hard to wait for someone to exit a place of residence in order to arrest them , then enter the house (with warrant) . No knocks do absolutely nothing for crime prevention and really have not proven to be any more effective in " catching " people committing crimes than the old ways of doing it ( arrest out in the open while leaving residence etc ) .
 
Groan....here we go again.....

OK, let's try to clear things up a bit...

My understanding is that a warrant gives legal authority to forcibly enter(no knock)a particular residence.

This is incorrect.

A warrant only grants the authority to enter a certain premises, to search for listed items. Items of contraband that are in plain or open view can also be taken into account, and the owner/occupant can also be charged.

No knock warrants are NOT easy to get. The officer requesting the warrant must articulate that vital items of evidence must be recovered quickly, or that a regular search warrant being served would pose a risk to the officers.

That warrant shouldn't give the authority to enter any other premises.

It doesn't.

In other words anyone, even LE, are committing a crime by mistakenly entering the wrong premises.

Doesn't work like that, sorry. If the warrant is executed in good faith, then there is no harm done.

Any other crimes such as somebody getting shot, whether LE or not, they should be held accountable.

Easiest way to NOT get shot is to not have a gun in your hand. If one is nearby, do not make sudden or furtive movements.

I'd like to see a law passed nationwide, which would strip LE of immunity and mandate felony prosecution any time a raid is made on the wrong address. Trouble is, actually getting any prosecutor, anywhere to prosecute under such a law is not real likely.

This is called misfeasance or malfeasance of office, which is a prosecutable offense.

As I understand it, officers are protected from personal accountability when they infringe upon someone's rights (which can include killing) so long as they were acting according to policy.

Nope. Not at all.

Okay, lets remember, the goal is reducing or eliminating raids on the wrong house. I think my proposal would have that effect. But instead, it'll probably going to be seen as cop bashing or degenerate into that. That wont accomplish anything.

Read my signature line.
 
EDIT: Powderman, you beat me to it while I was typing!!

Call me an optimist, but I'm hoping this wont start a cop bashing fest.

You're asking for a lot on this forum

My understanding is that a warrant gives legal authority to forcibly enter(no knock)a particular residence.

Incorrect. No-knock warrants are illegal under any circumstances in Michigan, and many other states.

That warrant shouldn't give the authority to enter any other premises.

It doesn't. That includes out-buildings on the property, unless they are specifically mentioned in the warrant.

I'd like to see a law passed nationwide, which would strip LE of immunity and mandate felony prosecution any time a raid is made on the wrong address. Trouble is, actually getting any prosecutor, anywhere to prosecute under such a law is not real likely.

How about mandating felony prosecution for career felons? Getting prosecutors to prosecute under current laws seems like it's difficult sometimes.

Okay, lets remember, the goal is reducing or eliminating raids on the wrong house.

The problem is sometimes the numbers are transfixed when the warrant is issued. Like a person make a typo and 669 becomes 696 or Taylor street is now Tyler street.

I think LE should be punished for breaking down the wrong doors. They need to make damn sure the are bothering the right person ESPECIALLY with a no knock set up.

The incorrect address shouldn't create a problem. Search warrants contain a very long paragraph describing the premises to be searched. For example, the last warrant I did said something like:
"The premises to be searched is [address here]. This is a single-story mobile home oriented perpendicular to the roadway. It is light brown with dark-brown trim. The siding on the south side has been removed on about two-thirds of that side, revealing a solid white under-surface. The door of the residence is on the middle of the south side."

If you get to the wrong address, the description should tip you off.
 
Many home invaders actualy yell police. In fact it often goes unreported. If you look closely though in many events in small print someone often mentions they said something along the lines of "police" "sherriff's department" or some federal agency to throw people off guard and get the upper hand.
Other times they say "come out where I can see you", "hands up" or "freeze", in fact I think a poster just recently mentioned having a guy wander into his home and say something along those lines, like "come out where I can see you".

Yet if the actual police say "police" that is often evidence that you should have reasonably known they were police and not opened fire or resisted :rolleyes:

Most such raids are in order to sieze drugs before someone can destroy "evidence". I personaly think violating the sanctity of the home in such a violent way simply for the sake of material evidence of something non violent is exceeding proper authority, and I applaud states that do not allow it. There is no reason most people cannot be arrested leaving the home, going to work, going to the store etc. If they are not a murder suspect, or a violent felony crime suspect, a raid into someone's "castle" shouldn't be justified.
That alone would cut down on the number of raids, and as a side benefit cut down on raids on the wrong address, bogus informant (read usualy drug addict with something to gain) information, etc.

One of the main reasons I am against "The war on drugs" is because of such abuses done in the name of fighting drugs. Prior to "the war on terrorism", the "war on drugs" was the primary way of circumventing the rights of the citizens. The "war on drugs" was contraversal though, but the "war on terrorism" is for people's safety so less oppose the errosion of rights from that angle, even though both are used by government in the same way to get what they want, total authority and control with minimal safeguards to inconvenience them, and everyone and everything tracked and monitored as much as people will allow. This makes control easier and more can be controlled with less effort.

Once control is too easy though, they expand what they want to control and what they care about as history has shown.
With limited resources, they focus on violent criminals. With tons of resources and power, they care about what you own, how you walk, what you eat, what you say, what is in your home, what is in your car, pockets, what you teach your kids, how you transport what you own, etc.

Its why the UK is in such a mess, they can really pick on people when they have so many resources and limited checks and balances, and the population becomes sheeple because they are told how unsafe and in danger they are all the time and how they only draw each and every breathe because thier wonderful government is out foiling plots, saving the day and keeping them safe. They come to believe this exageration and do not challenge abuses of power. After a few generations of this, its all they know and rely on it.

I personaly would rather see some drug problems in areas, the occasional terrorist attack, and not see America lose the essence of what has always made it unique and special: Liberty, Freedom.
How many died in 9/11? How many died in countless wars and struggles to protect the American way? An awful lot more than ever died in any terrorist attack, or all of them combined. In fact many many times more.

Here is an interesting piece on the American war for Independence:
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070704/OPINION03/707040337/1036/ENT04

1 IN 4 SOLDIERS DIED, higher than in any war since. Only 1 in 40 died in WW2. It most certainly is not the peaceful marching through town, and occasional volley of gunfire as described for the benefit of children's minds.
They just did not have journalists and cameras everywhere to make people all share the emotions of every single event that happened.

Yet we throw it all away to battle some drugs, and to attempt to prevent the rare terrorist event.

So YES I would love to see some accountability for someone raiding the wrong home. I also think anyone firing at anyone (in the off chance that the home owner lives) breaking into thier home armed, if the resident is not a wanted fugitive should be immune to charges. How is a law abiding person supposed to know the difference between a criminal and an officer yelling "police" before barging in thier homes with guns.
These police look no different than a soldier now, especialy in low light. With gear anyone could purchase at the local military surplus store criminals can look like SWAT. When seconds count and tactical advantage could soon be lost, a person should not be worried if its a no knock wrong address, or organized criminals (many of whom have prior military experience and can and do raid in just as organized of fashion).
 
We've seen examples lately where bad cops get promoted after being cleared by an internal investigation of acts which are obviously wrong. Where's the personal accountability? I just read the independent review report yesterday about the UCLA student who was tasered multiple times; the independent review condemned the officer's conduct as well as the UCLAPD use of force policy, while an internal review cleared him (and I believe he is still on the job... though there were several previous complaints about this officer using excessive force).
The most blatant and disgusting example of this is the Weems case in Chicago where a cop blew an unarmed man's brains out for no apparent reason. He lied to justify what he did. The entire chain of command from the Superintendent on down lied to justify what he did... then they found the security video tape. After trying to suppress the tape, the Superintendent continued to lie to justify what Weems did, then as a last resort gave Weems a thirty day suspension... for murdering a man... then promoted him to detective. Weems has since admitted under oath that the shooting was NOT justified. Unless some SERIOUS jury/witness tampering by the Chicago PD takes place, Weems and the City of Chicago are toast. This year the family of a man shot by the Chicago PD (in front of one of the houses where I grew up) won a $5,000,000+ settlement against the city. I'd virtually guarantee you that the victim's family gets AT LEAST that much, and that Weems will be left without a pot into which to urinate.

Cases such as Weems's murder of Michael Pleasance and the rewarding of the murderer by the man at the top, have utterly destroyed public confidence in the Chicago PD. Judging by the local newspaper blog comments on that case as well as the beating of a tiny barmaid by a drunken off-duty Chicago cop, Chicagoans simply don't report crimes to the Chicago PD. There's simply too much fear and mistrust to even bother.
 
I don't know about the rest of you , but the only reason for "no knocks" should be in possible abduction cases etc . . It's not that hard to wait for someone to exit a place of residence in order to arrest them , then enter the house (with warrant) . No knocks do absolutely nothing for crime prevention and really have not proven to be any more effective in " catching " people committing crimes than the old ways of doing it ( arrest out in the open while leaving residence etc ) .

Its a drug thing. The cops don't want people flushing the drugs. So until public opinion on drugs changes drastically (IMO it is, it will just take a few more years), no knocks are no going anywhere anytime soon.
 
Doesn't work like that, sorry. If the warrant is executed in good faith, then there is no harm done.

Tell that to Ishmael Mena and Reverend Williams. :scrutiny:

On Sept 29, 1999, Denver Swat agents descended on the home of Ishmael Mena. Mr. Mena was the 45 year old father of nine children. He was shot eight times and killed by police in the unannounced raid. No drugs were found. Police had an incorrect address. An equally vicious and unthinkable raid claimed the lie of Revered William, a Black, 75 year old, retired Methodist minister. His elderly wife had gone out to the store. He was sitting quietly near the window, in his sparsely furnished apartment, when Boston Police crashed through the door. Drug agents chased Reverend Williams to his bedroom, shoved him to the floor, and pointed guns at his head-inducing the vomiting and heart attack that killed him. Boston Police Commissioner Paul Evans later admitted that the police raided the wrong apartment. "If that is the case, then there will be an apology" he said. An apology! Since when did an apology raise someone from the dead? Two years later, the city (tax payers) paid a $1 million settlement to Reverend William's widow.

Source: http://www.rense.com/general54/blowyou.htm

No harm done my Equus africanus. :fire:

I concur with ptmmatssc. No-knocks should only be available for use where there is great threat of immediate loss of life to non-LEOs. Preservation of evidence as a reason is a stinking load of used cattle feed.
 
Easiest way to NOT get shot is to not have a gun in your hand. If one is nearby, do not make sudden or furtive movements.
Sorry, I don't have the luxury of such a foolish reaction.

I've got a long history of anonymous death threats from organized White supremacist groups. The idea that I'm just going to let somebody kick my door in without an appropriate response is simply ludicrous. Kick my door in and you get shot in the face with a Garand. Any braindead, pedophile Nazi can scream "police!" If you're in the wrong place, you've got a VERY short time in which to convince me that you're the police and not misbehaving. Just as "officer safety" trumps all other considerations for you, "Deanimator safety" trumps all other considerations for me. You would rather mistakenly kill me and go home alive at the end of the day, than be shot by a real criminal. Likewise, I would rather mistakenly kill you and stay home alive at the end of the day, than be shot by a White supremacist pretending to be a cop... nevermind the fact that the Cleveland PD recently fired two violent White supremacists (Officers Forrest and Turner) who WERE cops.

That means that if you're the police, it's not a good idea to mistakenly kick in my door, or decide to fake up a warrant affidavit the way the Atlanta PD did with that old woman they murdered.

Kicking in my door is a strict liability offense.
 
The problem is if you actually kill an officer. You WILL go to jail for life, or even the death sentence. People have responded with lethal force against no-knock warrants that were served at the wrong address. They still get sent to jail. Even if it takes 20 trials.... I didn't think you could get tried more than once for the same crime, but 'the only ones' find a way.
 
The problem is if you actually kill an officer. You WILL go to jail for life, or even the death sentence. People have responded with lethal force against no-knock warrants that were served at the wrong address. They still get sent to jail. Even if it takes 20 trials.... I didn't think you could get tried more than once for the same crime, but 'the only ones' find a way.
The only such instance of which I'm aware involved somebody who DID have drugs in his house. I don't. The Atlanta PD planted drugs in the house of the elderly woman they murdered, but their "fable" fell apart when they started rolling on each other.

Of course, what's your alternative? To let somebody murder me? What's my percentage in that?
 
The only such instance of which I'm aware involved somebody who DID have drugs in his house. I don't. The Atlanta PD planted drugs in the house of the elderly woman they murdered, but their "fable" fell apart when they started rolling on each other.
Drugs are common in some areas, and police are going to know the areas they are most prevelent. When an accident happens, something wrong will be found, whether it is a real something, or something planted, and they will have no trouble getting something to plant. Whether it is drugs, or an illegal arm they took off some punk they pulled over, or found in the course of thier work.

I am reminded of "honesty" like when the ATF raided the guy who had a certain firearm that was legal to have a certain stock with. They took the part that was legal combined with the stock, but left another firearm that could also use the stock, however would create an illegal firearm if it was attached. So they raided once, left and raided again and the guy was guilty of possessing the illegal firearm. The guy broke no laws, but by having what was the legal firearm to attach a certain accessory taken, and then still possessing that accessory and a firearm that it would be illegal to attach they busted him on constructive possession of a felony firearm because he had what would be necessary to build an illegal firearm even though it is in a legal configuration, and they had taken his valid reason for having it in the previous raid. They did nothing illegal or wrong and did not even plant evidence. Yet they obviously and intentionaly created a situation where the guy was unwittingly commiting a felony by owning the property they chose to leave which had previously been perfectly legal in combination with what they took. Or the "machine guns" that "only" took hours of work in a fully equiped metal shop by a very knowledgable agent to "convert" to fully automatic fire, and charging one as in possession of such a device, as was also recently reported on. If they want to create a situation they will. Not doing anything illegal won't keep you from being a criminal.

That is one of the more "honest" approaches.
You better believe when lethal force is used they are going to look at all avenues to cover thier asses. They will be checking everything. Whether the mattresses have thier tags. Whether a once legal prescription drug is possessed after the prescription expired. Whether any single firearm can be taken apart or put together in a way that would be illegal. Whether there is absolutely anything that can be listed as a crime.

Personaly I don't think after commiting such a serious act it should suddenly be justified because they found something. So some father of several children, one of whom might have some pot stashed someplace in thier room being killed in such a raid is suddenly justified because "drugs were found" or "several illegal firearms were recovered". They are not going to explain to the news that the drugs were a childs/roomates and the guy knew nothing, or that the "illegal" arms were legal and they just reconfigured them in some illegal way. They are going to give a story that implies "this was a criminal and the public should not care or take notice and be able to relate to this guy who we shot". They are going to do that slyly by professionaly briefing the press that an unfortunate shooting occured, yet imply that the guy they shot was not such a good guy because "such and such was recovered or found".
If the guy was squeeky clean, they will add thier own evidence. A used pipe or needle from one of the many drug addicts they encounter all the time should suffice.
When something worth a couple bucks can be legal grounds for such a situation, you better believe it will suddenly be found in the home if it is necessary to justify being there in the first place whether it was really there or not.

Reloading equipment can be combined with some common item in a home and shown as constructive possession to create a bomb.
Got some spare sprinlker or plumbing pipe, or garden hose connection? Maybe any hollow item I can make to look sinister sitting next to gunpowder and "shrapnel". Some powder to reload? Nails someplace in the garage? Or maybe shot to reload shotgun shells?
Visit this web site or others like it?

I could build a case to show you were a raving lunatic in possession of bomb making materials intent on commiting a terrorist act, then reference gun type sites after confiscating your hard drive and pouring through every possible thing on it like internet history (even deleted things which can be viewed with software as they exist until overwritten with new data) and build a very convincing case to a jury about any innocent man here. That when the police raided your home and killed you they possibly prevented a future terrorist attack. Luckily they did because it was only a matter of time... Doesn't mean it is true. Yet it would cast enough reasonable doubt as to the officers killing you to destroy a case against them.

So no when something wrong is accidentaly done, being squeaky clean is not going to save you. Being a 93 year old grandmother might make it a little tougher, but most people are not going to be 93 year old grandmas. They are going to be men, the police are going to imply they were dangerous, and the public and honest upstanding citizens are going to assume they were just another criminal that got caught and not think twice about it.
 
Easiest way to NOT get shot is to not have a gun in your hand. If one is nearby, do not make sudden or furtive movements.

The problem is, when armed masked men kick down the door of my home at 3am, as a law abiding citizen it is perfectly reasonable for me to assume that said intruders are "bad guys", not police...

The reason it is reasonable for me to make that assumption is because law abiding citizens would have no reason to anticipate a visit from the friendly neighborhood police.
 
Drugs are common in some areas, and police are going to know the areas they are most prevelent. When an accident happens, something wrong will be found, whether it is a real something, or something planted, and they will have no trouble getting something to plant. Whether it is drugs, or an illegal arm they took off some punk they pulled over, or found in the course of thier work.

I was wrong. It took 21 posts for this one to head south.

Hope your tin foil fits OK. I'm done with this one.
 
I was wrong. It took 21 posts for this one to head south.

Hope your tin foil fits OK. I'm done with this one.

http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/homepage/abox/article_1371805.php
http://www.ocweekly.com/news/news/training-day/26166/

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v07/n861/a08.html

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstr...imes Topics/Subjects/I/Identification Devices

http://patterico.com/2006/05/17/lapd-busts-police-officer-for-allegedly-fabricating-evidence/

There is so many cases caught of police planting evidence. For every one caught there is definately many that are never caught especialy when most of the victims are going to be real losers and have a rap sheet to prove it.
You bet it is common. When they catch some scumbag and they have nothing on him, but know he is a bad guy and know they are involved in bad things, have a criminal record to prove it (which means people will question it even less), finding a "little something" that he did not really have in order to get a bad guy off the street is seen as a good thing by a minority in the field. They knew he was a bad guy, knew he was up to no good, and they cleaned up the street.

Now you better believe when thier freedom is on the line and they are concerned about a recent use of lethal force, evidence to protect thier future will be a priority. It does not mean they are bad guys. They might even see it as: You are already dead, that is unfortunate, but they don't need to lose thier freedom or lives, leave thier children without a father or cost thier department tons of money in a settlement either and are more than motivated to find something to justify what happened. They don't want to lose thier job, and they don't want to lose thier retirement which may be only a couple years away after serving many years over a "mistake".
Even if they are removed from the investigative process, other officers are going to be sympathetic to thier situation, including some friends within the department. They don't want to see something bad happen to a fellow officer or thier department's reputation tarnished.
The necessary evidence can and often will appear.

The DA depends on these officers for thier prosecutions, and the officers depend on the DA to process thier arrests. They have a mutualy beneficial relationship, and often things that are not obviously wrong, but could be questionable are often overlooked and taken at face value. They look at the big picture, and small incidents the public does not notice are just not worth jeapordizing a lot of hard work and people's careers or lives.
Yet it is often these very same people that must question or bring charges against an officer. We call that a conflict of interest. They do not want to punish an officer over a "mistake" in the field. The exception of course would be something obviously sinister and malicious by an officer, and things caught on tape or obvious and in the media. They must act in such situations, but those are the exceptions.
 
sorry bout that powderman

The cases referenced are a matter of record. Extrapolating what the cops might do as a result of a bad raid even based on previous cases, isn't helping. What we need to do is to find that proverbial good first step. Here in Ohio, there is a party in the park coming up. Governor Strickland, may be coming. I'm going to see if there's any interest in the leadership in raising this issue. I'm afraid they're still working on current issues like Castle Law, Katrina confiscations etc. Can't blame them, but people are getting killed. The ultimate civil rights violation.
 
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