Sell Me on the HK91

[Nightcrawler]

The M14 SOPMOD is cool. But if you really want a short barreled rifle (and want to go through the hassle to get one) you could get a 13" FAL from DSA for a lot less than buying a preban M1A and then sending it in to get customized.

Check out DS Arms anyway. They have a very wide selection these days.

 

[OF]

They are way cool. Accurate. Lots of accessories and toys available.

Only gripes:

- awful trigger. can be rectified with a drop-in MSG90 trigger group

- heavy. if I was going to have a battle rifle to tote around, it'd be an FAL

- beaucoup money

 

[OF]

I mean, HK91's are cool. But this is...beyond cool. And it's cheaper, too.

- Gabe

 

[Fatelvis]

They`re too expensive. Id rather have a M1A, (Better sights, and overall accuracy). And I HATE reloading cases ejected from a 91, they`re striped!

 

[atek3]

READ Boston's gun bible Before you buy.

If you have a considerable amount of money I'd get a pre-ban belgian FAL or a pre-ban M1A that has been 'tacticalled' out.


atek3

 

[Tamara]

Nothing personal to Mssr. T. Party, but I wouldn't exactly call his Gun Bible an unbiased piece of work. He's got his favorites (like we all do) and it shows.

 

[Handy]

From what I can tell, the base HK91 (G3) is on average MORE accurate than a basic M1A, but the M1A has better long range sights.

Something to think about price wise:
The HK91 is all quality mil. issue parts. A stock M14 clone that is built of all GI parts is going to be $1400 or better. If you want all GI AND better than 2 MOA barrel, now the rifle is pushing $2K (obviously, you may do better used, but it's tough, and there is no guarantee that the gun IS all GI). All the 91 NEEDS is an $80 trigger job.

Other HK91 options include the preban Greek and Portugese imports which run $400 or so less than a comparable German gun. I've had two Greek ones, both will hold MOA with decent (not even match) ammo.

 

[Skullboy]

My shooting buddy had an HK-91 and it was a great rifle, even though it was a bit on the heavy side.It was extremely accurate, and had the "cool" factor. The downside was that the mags up here in Canada were expensive, and the extractor was really hard on the case rims(If you reload, it will makr you cry.I gave him 50 virgin .308 Fed. Match case for it and the extractor chewed up the rims!! I cried!!).

He wishes he didn't sell it, but the Canadian Government was putting them on the prohited list, and he didn't want to risk loosing it without compensation, so he sold it.

SKBY.

 

[JShirley]

Nah.

The G-3 wouldn't been around if the Germans could have bought the rights to the G-1 (FN FAL)!

 

[Handy]

Yeah! And all the other countries that purchased or built the G3 for their troops just wanted to be like the beloved Germans!

The G3 is one of the only .308 military rifles you will STILL see in the news throughout the world. The design is tough and has a proven record in the Artic, Jungle and Desert.

 

[JShirley]

...and one still sees CETMES and FALS in Africa and elsewhere, too. In the US, one still sees the occasional M14 in service, especially with the navy. (Yawn.)

And one still sees bolt-action iron-sighted rifles in use in some third-world countries. And?

 

[Marko Kloos]

Yeah, the Germans wanted the FAL (G1), but the G3 wasn't a bad consolation prize.

I want a HK91 just because I toted one in the service, but it's not a magic sword...no rifle is perfect.

The G3 is very rugged, more so than the FAL. It's easily scoped via claw mount. The iron sights are very good, once you learn how to use them properly. Recoil is pretty mild for a full-power battle rifle. Ergonomics are decent, field-stripping is simple (even the bolt group). The G3 is probably the most reliable battle rifle ever issued. Accuracy is on par with the FAL, and the G3 has no gas system that needs to be adjusted. Magazines are very cheap, especially since the Germans switched to G36s and dumped all their surplus G3 mags on the market.

On the downside, G3/HK91s are heavy. They lack a bolt hold-open feature, which is a major annoyance, especially since cocking a G3 requires a lot more force than cocking a FAL or M14. (When you pull back the charging handle, you force the roller lock out of engagement with the receiver, which takes more effort than simply retracting a rotating head bolt.) The hole in the G3 charging handle is intended for clipping the carry sling into it to assist in working the bolt manually, if that tells you something. We used to use that feature a lot when shooting blanks, since they have a tendency to cycle unreliably.

Magazine changes are easy with the AK-style paddle release on a G3, but somewhat awkward and unergonomic on a HK91, which only has the button release on the right side of the magazine well.

All in all, it's a fine, sturdy and powerful rifle. I wouldn't drop $2000 on one, though...that kind of money can get you an AR *and* a DSA FAL. Their price has been blown out of proportion by the ban and the HK logo on the magwell, but they're not head and shoulders above the rest in any way.

 

[Fatelvis]

Handy, you said something like a match ready M1A would run about 2000, right? Well, around here, a 91 in excellent/new condition is 2000+. I would bet you a dollar to a doughnut that M1A will make that 91 look silly in the accuracy dept! Why would you buy a FORIEGN rifle, with relatively crappy sights, from stamped steel, that throws unreloadable brass, for the same money that you can have a match ready M1A? (Just trying to get your dander up!)

 

[Handy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all the .308 battle rifles (M14, Fal, G3) about 9.5 lbs? The site I could find just now listed the FAL at 4.45 Kilos, the BM-59 at 4.4 and the G3 at 4.5.

Is there a rifle of this type that isn't "heavy"?

 

[AK103K]

Nope, not to the wuss's around today. Now to a farm boy, it probably aint to heavy.
I find it entertaing to watch people who only learned to shoot on the 223 try to shoot the "older" rifles. All they bitch about is how much they kick and how heavy they are.

 

[Handy]

Dear Fat,

Well, my preban Greek rifle cost $1200 (and I bought it by selling the previous $860 postban one for $1200) , so all of this seems a little ridiculous.

Mainly, I was pointing out that the price difference is not the $1000 most people throw around. I've been reading quite a bit lately of the problems encountered with new M1A's. How much does your $1200 rifle cost after you've replaced all the cast parts?

On to your other points, the average excellent + condition HK91 is $2200, a price that reflects both value and the fact that there are no more coming in, and haven't been for 14 years. But I listed several cheaper alternatives.

I prefer strong, dimensionally perfect sheetmetal receiver stampings to imperfectly machined castings. But you can always spend $600 on a forged Enterprise M14 receiver. I don't see the point on this one. This is not a question of how best to spend $2000, its a question of what you're getting should you choose the HK.

You can reload G3 brass. Someone is lying to you if they say you can't. The lines on the brass are burn marks, not scoring. A port buffer helps, too, but isn't a requirement.

The sights aren't crappy, they just aren't target sights, which is what the M14 has. The G3 sight system can be used very precisely without much trouble, and is a FASTER sight system, which actually kind of matters on the battlefield, or hunting.

Like I said, this is a question of what you want and what you are getting. The Glock is proof enough that people don't actually care about the production value, just the end product. The HK91 is a great product. If you don't like the price, why aren't you shooting a Savage .308 bolt gun? That's value.

(Breeze carries cloud of dander away.)

 

[AK103K]

If you don't like the price, why aren't you shooting a Savage .308 bolt gun?

Dont pick on the lowly Savage now!
My cheapo Savage Scout w/Leupold Scout scope, will out shoot any of the M1A's, HK's, FAL's, etc that I've ever had.

 

[Handy]

Not picking on the Savage!

The Savage bolt is truly an excellent way to spend little money and get an accurate, stong and reliable rifle. The Scout thing is particularly cool.

 

[Fatelvis]

Handy, just to correct you- Those arent burn marks on the brass, they`re permenent scores, made by the 91`s fluted chamber. I know, I HAD a 91 (and sold it, when they were $850 ) Even after tumbling, they`re there. Just had to tell ya.

 

[Hkmp5sd]

Wait for the Hk-91

Remember two (possible) upcoming events. First, the end of the AW ban next year. Second, the rumor that Hk is going to build a plant in the US to get around import restrictions.

If that happens, may be able to get an actual HK for less money than a current pre-ban.

 

[Gewehr98]

Reasons to buy that HK-91...

1. It's black
2. Pre-ban telescoping stock.
3. It's black
4. Hi-Cap magazines are available.
5. It's black
6. Pistol grip, an evil feature since 1994.
7. It's black
8. .308, so it's got plenty of whoop-***.
9. It's black
10. Brass flies really far and fast without the port buffer.
11. It's black
12. Fluted chamber makes striations on the brass, so you're reloading can suffer, assuming the rims don't get torn off before then... (One reason I sold mine, those weren't just burn marks, Handy)
13. It's black
14. Recoil was sharper than a M14 or FAL (Other reason I sold mine)
15. It's black, and made by HK, a Skunkabilly wet-dream, as it were!

 

[Schuey2002]

I bet he picks up an AR-15 with the Horsey on it before he buys a HK91..

 

[Redlg155]

Time to eat your Tactical Wheaties..

Wanna shoot a big rifle? Don't worry Skunk. Just come down to sunny Florida and I'll get you on the Redleg "beef up " program!

I will admit they are nice rifles. The price I couldn't handle. Now those DSA rifles are another matter....

I'd just get a CETME and call it even.

Good Shooting
Red

 

[AK103K]

Handy, just to correct you- Those arent burn marks on the brass, they`re permenent scores, made by the 91`s fluted chamber. I know, I HAD a 91 (and sold it, when they were $850 ) Even after tumbling, they`re there. Just had to tell ya.

This isnt exactly correct. Mostly its soot on the case. Some cases will have a scratch or two, but most were gone when tumbled, at least with the stuff I was shooting and my guns. The only brass I wasnt able to reload out of a HK gun was IMI "black tip" carbine ammo in 9mm. It actually started fireforming the flutes in the brass out of my MP5. If you have a port buffer on the 91, there really is no damage to the brass, other than an ocasional scratch, and the brass is easily reloaded.

 

[clown714]

everything aside

no bolt hold open on the last shot

besides that,it's a fine rifle

clown