Semi-autos

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Satchel

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Most posts here have to do with pump shotguns. 870s and Mossbrgs.
I've been thinking of getting an auto 20 ga. because of less kick than other types of guns.
Why do most of you prefer pumps over autoloaders
 
Reliability has a lot to do with quality, I have broken more pump guns than autoloaders. I also enjoy reliability on par with pump guns from several of the autoloaders I own.

I think it boils down to cost first and simplicity second. A good solid reliable auto is going to cost in excess of $500 new, and a good solid pump is going to cost a little over $200. If reliable autos were the same price as a pump gun the makers wouldn't be able to sell pump guns, I don't think anyone would argue that the buying public would take a pump over an autoloader if both were stone reliable. Pumps are as simple as a gun gets and that is attractive, simple usually works and is usually pretty tough.
 
Depends on what your intended use is. Pumps are cheap and reliable and are great for home defense and plinking guns. Autoloaders are more expensive and slightly less reliable (or should I say, more finicky about what you feed them), but offer faster and easier follow-up shots for hunting and clay shooting. O/U's are the most expensive and emphasize handling and long-term durability, important qualities for serious clay shooting.

All are fun to shoot. In fact, I have one of each! :D
 
Most of the shotgun posts here are of the tacticool man killing variety. Pumps modify well to tacticool, are affordable, are even offered as tacticool shotguns. As a bird hunter, I'll tell you, I much prefer the auto for its recoil absorbing abilities. I own a Winchester M1400 and it's been a great bird gun. Autos require more meticulous cleaning, but they function fine when feed the ammo power level they prefer. Some are less dependent on ammo than others.

Since I do a lot of duck hunting in local salt marshes and I don't wanna mess up my nice autoloader, I have a cheap Mossberg for such duties. For the money, it's quite effective. I've had no problems with it in about 15 seasons so far. It's got the rugged OEM camo finish and shrugs off rust. It also fires 3" loads which my Winchester doesn't do. I may buy an autoloader in the future like the Remington 11-87 that shucks 2 3/4 and 3" loads, but for now the Mossberg works fine. I really do prefer autoloaders for hunting, though. they punish you less.
 
A pump gun may have slightly fewer breakdowns than autos in or out of the field but as with most things this depends 100% EVERY TIME on the maintenance of the gun and the quality of firearm that it is to begin with. It is hard to find a better pump than a field grade 870.

But,

A good auto depends on the same things but is even more dependent on proper maintenance. You must know what you want to do with an auto to make it perform properly.

Autos, especially older guns, have either certain mechanical things that must be done to them to fire heavier or lighter loads. You may just have to look in the owners manual and follow its instructions on care and suggested ammunition.

From my experience, and my opinion only, A good auto is the only way to go. They are generally lighter, better quality and better shooters than pumps. If you want a bullet proof shotgun the closest you can get is either a Bennelli. a Berreta, a Remington or any other major manufacturer.

But be forwarned! A Good quality auto is much higher than a good quality pump. My Benelli Super 90 is about as bullet proof as you can get but it is was twice as much as my favorite Rem 870 Wingmaster.

Oh, by the way, you will hear that autos don't kick as much as a pump. HAHHAAHHAHAHHH!!!:D :D :D :D
Don't belkieve that one!
I have a Franchi AL-48 20 gauge that weighs in at 5.4 pounds. and it kicks like an army pack mule! The light weight is what does it. The lighter they are, the harder they Kick!

Best thing to do is go buy you a benelli, a berreta and a new benelli pump and remington wingmaster and test them out! (I am sure the misses won't mind, but, you might not want to tell her about them until you get them home!):evil: :D :evil: :D
 
Most people prefer pump over semi becuase pump is far more reliable.
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As long as you dont short stroke it. :p

But in seriousness the only times my 11-87 has jammed was before I knew how to properly clean it. Gotta clean the magazine tube, inside and out. I haven't seen a single jam of any type for almost a year now, with slugs, buckshot and birdshot.

When I had a pump I got sick of shooting real fast, and didnt like shooting 50 rounds at a time. Now with my 11-87 I can literally shoot hundreds upon hundreds of rounds. The reduction in felt recoil is worth it to me.
 
Everyone gets to make their own choice in the pump versus semi debate and here's how I made mine.

When measured against a pump, the semi-auto is comparatively complex, more dependent on proper maintenance and less accomodating in its ammunition tastes. It is however more accomodating when it comes to the operator.

The pump gun is simpler, robust, shoots a wider range of ammunition and is less likely to breakdown. It is however more dependent on the operator. If you want to get good with one you need to practice.

I have both. Each has their place. I use the pump for serious duties and make sure I practice with it on a regular basis.
 
Yes, a semi-auto is going to be finicky about ammo, but once you've found a good load, it will function just fine. As far as price, you could find a Saiga-12 or Saiga-20 for under $400 without too much difficulty.

AK reliability in a shotgun. Magazine fed too! What more could you ask for?
 
Note that the Franchi AL48 is a hard-kicking design.

A small, light gas-operated Beretta 39X or Remington 11XX doesn't kick much at all, since the action absorbs most of the recoil, while the AL48 (Browning A5 design) makes it worse, as does the Benelli. Benelli has developed various high-tech features, some of them for added cost, to absorb the recoil, but a light one without any anti-recoil measures can also kick a good bit.

I prefer a semi for upland hunting. When you jump quail in the brushy, rocky mountains, you get a fraction of a second to fire a lot of the time, before the bird is gone. No time to fiddle. An occasional jam, more cleaning, etc. are worth it.

A lot of waterfowl hunting allows a lot of time to prepare, relative to quail, for example. And it's done in wet conditions, cold conditions, etc. Unless you buy a really expensive auto for the purpose (Extrema or SBE come to mind, or the new, expensive bottom-eject Remington), the pump will probably work a lot better!

Ditto for HD. If you get a misfire or whatever, just pump again. You'll be able to shoot fast enough. Just practice shooting fast, often enough so you don't short-shuck. Reliable, cheap, and bulletproof.
 
Oh, by the way, you will hear that autos don't kick as much as a pump. HAHHAAHHAHAHHH!!!
Don't belkieve that one!
I have a Franchi AL-48 20 gauge that weighs in at 5.4 pounds. and it kicks like an army pack mule! The light weight is what does it. The lighter they are, the harder they Kick!
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A 5.4 lb inertial (I'm thinking, don't know for sure) operated gun? Well, DUH! Do yourself a favor and try a gas gun with some heft. My M1400 Winchester 12 gauge doesn't even have a recoil pad and recoils like a 20 gauge. I fired 3 1/2 boxes up dove hunting first of the season in a 3 day hunt and it never bothered me even though I was just wearing a T shirt. :D I'd have had to have my shoulder joint reset with my Mossberg and it has a recoil pad!
 
A small, light gas-operated Beretta 39X or Remington 11XX doesn't kick much at all, since the action absorbs most of the recoil, while the AL48 (Browning A5 design) makes it worse, as does the Benelli. Benelli has developed various high-tech features, some of them for added cost, to absorb the recoil, but a light one without any anti-recoil measures can also kick a good bit.
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As an Auto-5 owner I have to disagree with this. The long-recoil mechanism does not dissipate energy as efficiently as a gas gun, but there is a noticeable difference in kick between, say, a Browning BPS and an Auto-5. In my personal opinion, my Light Twelve Auto-5 has about as much felt recoil as my 870 20 gauge.

Now the gun does have to be adjusted for the load you are shooting, and shooting something like a slug while on the light load setting is going to smack you good!

The AL48's real "problem" is that it is a 5.5 pound 20 gauge. No matter what you do that is going to kick hard.
 
I own both: I have two Remington 870's and an 1187. There are plusses and minuses for each:

- The auto allows for quicker follow-up shots (especially at my age):D
- The auto is much more labor intensive to clean. Gas guns (especially the Remingtons) get really dirty.
- Autos might be ammo sensitive: Many have reported feed problems with the 1187 when using light loads (I've not personally experienced this and I shoot a lot of clay with it)
- The auto gas action may freeze up in cold weather situations and become inoperable (don't know from personal experience)
- The auto (at least mine) is a much softer shooting gun (especially with magnum loads)
- The pump is more a more reliable platform: I always carry a spare O-ring with the auto, because a failure turns it into a single shot :banghead:
- Pumps (in general) cost less. I paid about $600 for the 1187 and around $550 for the Wingmaster (I like blued guns with wood furniture). You can get a basic 870 Express or Mossberg for a lot less (both very reliable). I also have a short barreled 870 express for HD (where reliability and simplicity of use can save your life)

Choice really depends on what your intended uses are. Based upon the types of shooting I do, I determined that I needed both.:cool:

Also, don't assume that a 20 is going to be a soft shooting gun. I've shot light weight 20's that were bruisers!
 
I think the real reason most people prefer pumps is that they are more economical. Good autos are every bit as reliable as pump guns, they just cost more.
 
At this time, my FAVORITE long gun is my Remington 11-87 Police trade-in gun that I picked up for $399. I enjoy shooting this gun more than any other rifle/shotgun and trust my and my families life to it.

Sure I clean it after a range session, but I do that will all of my guns.

It's soft recoiling, very fast to shoot and as accurate as any shotgun i've owned.

Find a good load that it likes and stick with it.

Steve
 
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