Was chatting with a couple of local cops the other day... One of 'em is concerned about CCW... His thoughts are that the "kids" who are doing a lot of crimes are going to be MORE likely to shoot first if they even remotely assume that a potential victim has a firearm. He doesn't think that an armed population will deter these "kids" - his opinion is that they don't think that far in advance, and that they'll do their typical "He's got my money, and I'm gonna get paid," and then act, escalating their actions if they think that the victim might resist.
Shoot first, don't ask questions?
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I am sure that there are people out there like that, they are called "Cold blooded Murders", but they are the exception not the rule, and CCW did not turn normal criminals into CBMs.
It's possible, but so is the fact that the "kids" might actually be afraid of getting shot first. Eventually after attacking enough people they will be shot first and then they will think twice.
Even if the "kids" shoot first ask later, it would still be better if the victim has some sort of defense if they survive the first shot.
Gus
Even if the "kids" shoot first ask later, it would still be better if the victim has some sort of defense if they survive the first shot.
Gus
Sounds like the same ol " if only one in a million...." does "whatever" mentality. Knowing that the intended victim is weaker them and not armed HAS to make a criminal more confident. Someone willing to kill for a few bucks would likely kill anyway.
I tend to know a lot of LEO's.............
because of shooting with them at various ranges here in Oregon. We often shoot the bull as to the efficacy of carrying concealed and whether or not it is a deterrent. First, almost to a man (or woman), they are highly supportive of private citizens carrying concealed. They subscribe to the old aphorism, "an armed society is a polite society". Second, they have talked to perps who say that they avoid folks who they think could be armed. The perps see absolutely no sense in trying to pick off someone who can really defend himself or herself.
If you are unlucky enough to run into a real nutcase it does not matter if you are armed or not - they will shoot no matter what.
because of shooting with them at various ranges here in Oregon. We often shoot the bull as to the efficacy of carrying concealed and whether or not it is a deterrent. First, almost to a man (or woman), they are highly supportive of private citizens carrying concealed. They subscribe to the old aphorism, "an armed society is a polite society". Second, they have talked to perps who say that they avoid folks who they think could be armed. The perps see absolutely no sense in trying to pick off someone who can really defend himself or herself.
If you are unlucky enough to run into a real nutcase it does not matter if you are armed or not - they will shoot no matter what.
Criminals are predators by nature, and by nature predators dont attack the strongest buck they usually go for a weak straggler. This is how evolution works, the criminal mind hasnt evolved over that so that they look for secure people so they can shoot 1st they still overwhelmingly go to houses when people are not home and rob little old ladies and women.
The 'kids' in Richmond know that lots of folks carry guns, so what's a few more carrying legally? (I've actually talked to a number of them over the years...the ones who lived...some in wheelchairs, some with brain damage, some with colostomy bags.)
The officer's logic might apply in a town where nobody carried until a concealed carry law was passed.
John
The officer's logic might apply in a town where nobody carried until a concealed carry law was passed.
John
John Lott's analysis shows that concealed carry deters violent crime -- and if it could be refuted, the antis would be all over it.
When you see these kids who have survived being shot -- how did it happen? Was it an attempt to rob a little old lady who happened to be carrying, or was it gang violence, possible drug-related?
When you see these kids who have survived being shot -- how did it happen? Was it an attempt to rob a little old lady who happened to be carrying, or was it gang violence, possible drug-related?
Yeah, we saw that spike in murders after all those other 36+ states allowed citizens to carry.
Wait, we didn't.
I get really sick of people talking about what might happen in regards to permit to carry laws. Just look at the states that already did it if you want some information.
Wait, we didn't.
I get really sick of people talking about what might happen in regards to permit to carry laws. Just look at the states that already did it if you want some information.
Does he carry a gun?
Isn't he afraid that "these kids" will give up on the usual drunk scuffling when they're being arrested and simply shoot him?
The possibility that your enemies will develop a counter to your tactics is not a reason to abandon them.
Isn't he afraid that "these kids" will give up on the usual drunk scuffling when they're being arrested and simply shoot him?
The possibility that your enemies will develop a counter to your tactics is not a reason to abandon them.
When anyone resurrects the old, tired anti line, "If they think you have a gun, they'll just shoot you," I ask "Then why don't they shoot all the cops? After all, they KNOW cops have guns -- they can SEE them."
dairycreek,
I hear that viewpoint often. "The beat cop supports your right to carry a gun." "Most cops are 2nd amendment friendly"
Well, you might ask those CCW-supportive officers to start working to fix their unions and lobbies. While vocal support on the level of individual officers is wonderful, their hired political guns actively and constantly push for more stringent gun control laws for non-police across the board.
I hear that viewpoint often. "The beat cop supports your right to carry a gun." "Most cops are 2nd amendment friendly"
Well, you might ask those CCW-supportive officers to start working to fix their unions and lobbies. While vocal support on the level of individual officers is wonderful, their hired political guns actively and constantly push for more stringent gun control laws for non-police across the board.
The thing is, I don't carry to deter crime. I do it to protect myself and my family agasint the possibility that a crime is going to committed against me or them.
I'd be more willing to listen to concerns like this if someone had any reason to believe that giving in to crooks had any positive influence on things. Not resisiting doesn't prevent crime, nor does it guarentee that you won't be hurt or killed anyway.
It was this "just give criminals what they're asking for and no one will get hurt" mentality that help make 9/11 the tragedy it was.
I'd be more willing to listen to concerns like this if someone had any reason to believe that giving in to crooks had any positive influence on things. Not resisiting doesn't prevent crime, nor does it guarentee that you won't be hurt or killed anyway.
It was this "just give criminals what they're asking for and no one will get hurt" mentality that help make 9/11 the tragedy it was.
If they don't want to die, they won't break into my house.
I made my decision a long, long time ago. They get to make theirs. That's reality for you.
I made my decision a long, long time ago. They get to make theirs. That's reality for you.
Even if CCW is only crime neutral ie no effect one way or the other, there is still no argument against it.
I have yet to see one study that said CCW increased crime.
I have yet to see one study that said CCW increased crime.
"I are a cop and I get to carry a gun and shoot people I don't like and I don't think anybody but us cops should be allowed to carry guns because we want to have all the power and we don't want none of you pond scum citizens to have anything to say about it. And we don't want a bunch of nitwit politicians telling us we can't beat the hell out of people who piss us off. The only bad thing about this country is it isn't run by us cops like it ought to be."
Not many cops will actually say something like that today, but probably 80% of them think it. (Maybe I am wrong. Maybe it is 100%.)
Jim
Not many cops will actually say something like that today, but probably 80% of them think it. (Maybe I am wrong. Maybe it is 100%.)
Jim
I seem to remember that a few years back the bad guys in Florida started robbing tourist.
Hmmm....let's see....shall issue....robbing tourist....
Hmmm....let's see....shall issue....robbing tourist....
It is my gun and my life. If some cops think I will be more likely to be killed because I carry, tough. We will see who gets dragged to the hospital or morgue. (And no, I don't ever want to use my firearm in self defense if I can avoid it.)
If I ever visit Florida it will be in my truck with Michigan plates. The BGs better read up on reciprocity because my ccw is recognized by Florida.
I heard that Florida car rental companies stopped marking their cars as obvious rentals after tourists were targeted. Hmmm.
If I ever visit Florida it will be in my truck with Michigan plates. The BGs better read up on reciprocity because my ccw is recognized by Florida.
I heard that Florida car rental companies stopped marking their cars as obvious rentals after tourists were targeted. Hmmm.
Sadly I have a unique perspective on this.One of my older brothers is a career criminal and in my thirty-five years has been out of prison less than half of that time.
When he gets out (we call them his vacations) it is usually from a month to three then he will be back in,once he stayed out a year.While he was out that year,most of it wanted he went to live with one of his girlfriends's family in Nevada to escape the heat.After he found out what a CCW was and law abiding folks could carry,and many did in Nevada he moved back to Los Angeles even though he knew all the local officers knew him.He was picked up less than two weeks later.
He is a big guy and knows how to take care of himself physicaly,but as they say a gun is a great equalizer and predators will go for those they think can not defend themselves,if CCW are legal in your area they do not know who really is the easiest victim.
CW
When he gets out (we call them his vacations) it is usually from a month to three then he will be back in,once he stayed out a year.While he was out that year,most of it wanted he went to live with one of his girlfriends's family in Nevada to escape the heat.After he found out what a CCW was and law abiding folks could carry,and many did in Nevada he moved back to Los Angeles even though he knew all the local officers knew him.He was picked up less than two weeks later.
He is a big guy and knows how to take care of himself physicaly,but as they say a gun is a great equalizer and predators will go for those they think can not defend themselves,if CCW are legal in your area they do not know who really is the easiest victim.
CW
even if these "kids" dont care i would still like to have a fighting chance and be able to carry just incase they are a bad shot.
That's nice that they think that, but did you mention to them that every single statistic on the matter has already proven them wrong?
Well I sure hopes the cop holds his logical thinking in ALL aspects of what he thinks.. He should not have a gun either, as any "Criminal" that thinks he might be armed would shoot him on sight... So if he doesnt have a gun, then he will not get shot.... enough said..
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