viperstarbuck
Member
And hoe do you know hes unarmed? Because he told you?
I'll trust my instincts over Ayoob or whoever any day.
If you have to use deadly force it's always a good idea to prepare for the fact that there is a very good chance you will be arrested, that way you aren't totally shocked if it happens, but it's not always the case.
when there is an objective opinion
Myth and completely untrue. A police officer is obligated to equal force or no more than the force necessary to subdue, whatever the situation requires. A civilian does not have that obligation. As for fleeing? Depends on the state laws for one. Yes, you ARE allowed deadly force when there is an objective opinion that deadly force was warranted. This objective opinion is reviewed by the subjectiveness of a jury or the D.A
And hoe do you know hes unarmed? Because he told you?
If thats the case why carry a gun? You haven't lost your life until your heart stops beating (and even then you might be brought back). What would you do if someone draws a gun, say "aww crap, I guess I am dead, let me not try to do anything to save myself".But by the time an assailant draws a gun, you've already lost [your life].
Having that mentality could be a problem. I suggest you study disparity of force so you can understand how your physical disabilities do put you at a disadvantage, but they don't give you the right to just use deadly force in situations where your life is not at a real danger of death or great bodily harm.Any s.o.b. that attacks me is going to get fired on, whether he's armed or not. I'm too old and physically disavantaged to try and fight it out or run, I'm lucky to walk without a cane. That's WHY I have a CWP, to protect myself!
can't be determined by anyone. I say that because you can state the facts such as "they were talking to them selves", or "they were talking without making any sense" etc. However you really wont know what mental issues they might have. It might be alcohol, it might be a brain problem, it could be that they broke up with their girlfriend of boy friend. Their mental state doesn't matter, the facts of how they were acting are what matter.Threats mental state
That is absolutely not true. When I was 10, I was attacked by a 12 year old, and yes, I was kicked there. I didn't even feel it. Same thing happened when I fell and had a huge cut on my head.After taking just one good punch in the eye or kick to the crotch, the largest, strongest man is no match for a twelve year old girl.
No, he's an even match, and if he's not using deadly force, fight back using non-lethal force.So if he is an even match you have to let him beat on you?
Don't let him. If he starts to get a weapon, then I'd shoot him.But by the time an assailant draws a gun, you've already lost [your life].
It's called "disparity of force" and the fact that he is twice your size and half your age is taken into account. Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy. All three of those must be present for a deadly force situation. If he is twice your size, half your age, and starts showing off his taijutsu skills, then he has Ability. If he is close enough to hurt you, he has opportunity. If you feel that you are in jeopardy of death or serious bodily injury, then you have jeopardy. If it is a fair fight, then you don't have ability or jeopardy, and you should not be using lethal force.You see it in movies where some cowboy gets hung because he shot an unarmed man. But is that realistic? Suppose some thug twice your size and half your age simply wants to beat you unconcious?
When you put it that way, it does sound pretty ridiculous. But yes. You see, you can't shoot people because they might give you a black eye. You have to feel fear for your life, or fear of serious bodily harm. Bruises are not serious bodily harm. What the court will consider serious bodily harm would require hospitalization.Or maybe he is about the same size and age you are, but you just don't feel like fighting with a mugger. Are you supposed to give him a "sporting chance"?
Pretty much. Try to escape, call the cops, do anything you can. But in the end, if you can take the punch, you will be much happier that you did than if you have to fight this thing in court because you shot the guy.Do you owe an assailant a "fair fight" when he is the one who insists on fighting?
Since it's illegal to brandish in VA to even scare a bad guy away if lethal force isn't authorized.
If you are in a situation where you would be OK using force, but not deadly force, you may draw and aim your firearm to give the THREAD of deadly force without it actually BEING deadly force until you pull the trigger.
Concurred, but the topic was about the legality of shooting an unarmed man.
Do you owe an assaiant a "fair fight" when he is the one who insists on fighting?
In Virginia that would be illegal. You can not brandish unless deadly force is authorized.
Absolutely. A firearm is not a bargaining tool, but there are situations where you can do the "stop or I'll shoot" bit. I've done it before, and it works very well. However, if I wasn't in a situation where I could pull the trigger legally, I wouldn't be pointing a gun at someone.All this talk of actually shooting. Doesn't anyone believe in the deterrent effect of SHOWING a firearm to an attacker?
I could be wrong, but I read somewhere that when a cop points a gun at someone it is not considered use of force, but instead it is considered a "display of force". It only becomes "use of force" when he pulls the trigger. I don't think that non-leo civilians have as much leniency with display of force, but we might. I just try not to have to draw a weapon if I don't have to, and it gets me by just fine.If you are in a situation where you would be OK using force, but not deadly force, you may draw and aim your firearm to give the THREAT of deadly force without it actually BEING deadly force until you pull the trigger.
I could be wrong, but I read somewhere that when a cop points a gun at someone it is not considered use of force, but instead it is considered a "display of force". It only becomes "use of force" when he pulls the trigger. I don't think that non-leo civilians have as much leniency with display of force, but we might.
I stayed near the fountain drinks with my hands insight to the badguy, he stole about $150 from the cashier, ignored me, and went on his way.