Short barrel .357 and woods defense

[Southern Shooter]

I have a .357 Ruger Speed-six with a 2.75" barrel. It is my woods gun for protection. I live in the central portion of Louisiana so the most likely critters that I might have issues with are wild hogs, aligators, coyotes and ferrel dogs. I have been carrying 158 grain American Eagle flat-nose soft points. I was recently given a box of Federal Vital-shok 180 grain Castcore rounds. The velocity on these rounds is 1060 fps at the muzzle with 449 foot pounds of energy from a 4" test barrel. http://www.federalcartridge.com/bal...&firearm=2&bc=0.21&muzzvel=1060&bulletwgt=180

I am guessing that with my short-barreled .357 that muzzle velocity drops to somewhere around 975 fps...I have no clue what the foot pounds of energy would be.

Question: Am I wasting these particular rounds in this short-barreled revolver for the purpose woods protection? Would I be better off sticking with something else to fulfill this role? How large a creature would this combination of Federal Vital-shok 180 grain Castcore and 2.75" barreled .357 put down out to 20 yards? Any input would be appreciated.

 

[Art Eatman]

They oughta give great penetration, which is the main problem for pistols, IMO.

Seems to me that if you have a bunch of angry teeth headed your way, what you want to do is get multiple hits. So, I'd do some practice at rapid fire at relatively close range. Check yourself for "fire control".

Given the number of .357-killed trophies I've seen, what you have is plenty good enough as far as power. For actual hunting, the only difficulty is the short sight raidus with that barrel--but you know your own skills and limitations, there...

Art

 

[campbell]

Heavy hardcasts in a .357 is plenty for anything you'll see in LA. If you want them a bit faster, you could order from Doubletap or BuffaloBore. Both are running hotter than the Federals, but DoubleTap is the cheaper of the two.

 

[mbt2001]

Shot placement will be the key and the placement of follow up shots. Make sure you practice shooting the 6 rounds of .357 fast and accurate.

Defensive shooting doesn't take place at 20 yards... So I wouldn't hazard a guess as to how effective that load maybe on a Hog or something at 20 yards. Also, most snubs have fixed sights, which means that they are not the most accurate guns in the world for that kind of shooting.

Another thing... Guns are like people in some ways. It would suprise you how well a "little" guns work when pressed into service. I wouldn't worry to much about "the perfect load".

 

[MCgunner]

Heavier bullets will be less affected by the shorter barrel length. The 125 grainer needs a faster powder to perform in the shorter barrel lengths than 2400 I load. I carry the 140 grain load in mine. This is from a 2.3" barrel SP101.

That 180 grain load is a handful in the little gun, but with the Hogue grip it ain't too bad for field use. I can put 5 rounds into about 2" with the gun at 25 yards off a rest, so I could kill a hog, maybe out to as much as 50 yards with it. I actually developed it for a 6.5" Blackhawk and in that gun it's over 1400 fps for 785 ft lbs. AA#9 is a good powder.

125 grain JHP/18.0 grains 2400......1102 fps/337 ft lbs
140 grain JHP/17.0 grains 2400......1332 fps/551 ft lbs
158 grain SWC/14.5 grains 2400.....1162 fps/426 ft lbs
180 grain JHP XTP/13.8 grains AA#9....1306 fps/682 ft lbs

 

[Ghost Tracker]

Because it's been months since anyone has sighted a Grizzly or Brown Bear in Louisiana, your .357 Mag 2.75" Security Six is just about perfect. Get yourself a Hogue Monogrip & couple of Speed Loaders. You'll be ready for...wait! And some SNAKE SHOT...and you'll be ready for anything!

 

[Southern Shooter]

Thanks

I appreciate all the input so far. Sounds like I have a good set-up to keep myself safe while in the deep woods.

mbt2001, I guess 20 yards does seem a bit out of the self-defense range. I suppose I was thinking if I get a mad hog heading my direction I would want to get the head start on him. If I were closing the distance say down to 10 yards...then this combination of revolver and ammunition would for sure be effective in taking down good size beasts.

 

[kmrcstintn]

test the Castcores at various yardages out to 25 yards to see how well they group and where they land in relations to point of aim...use a rest to reduce shooter induced variations; then shoot the same stuff unsupported and see how they differ...a hardcast lead slug is a great penetrator; unfortunately, Federal has reduced the potential of the 180 gr CastCore...the previous itteration was rated at 1250 fps & 625 ft-lbs from a 4" barrel...me thinks that people gettin rediculous and trying to shoot full-bore hunting loads from scandium-framed snubbies might be their reasoning for making proven loads anemic and watered down

 

[MCgunner]

Buffalo Bore 180s and live happy! They'll perform about like my 180 grain handload, I reckon, over 600 ft lbs from a sub 3" barrel. I have never heard of anyone attacked and killed or injured by a hog that wasn't trying to kill the hog, but hey, I was caught without my shotgun one morning setting out decoys in a pot hole. A HUGE hog with big tusks walked right up in that pothole with me. Now days, I keep my shotgun slung over my back when setting out the deeks before sun up. LOL! I scared that big boy off, but could have just as easily startled it, i reckon. We stood there staring at each other for what seemed like hours, but in reality was maybe 5 seconds, while I tried to figure out how I was going to get out of that situation. Generally, the gators out there are more of a concern, well, in early teal season. By November they're holin' up. But, I like to go armed when I'm out on my place where hogs are in abundance, not really for self defense so much as for barbecue meat. I normally tote my 4" .357 or my .45 Colt blackhawk in preference to my SP101, but sometimes just take the SP101 since I'm carrying it concealed anyway. I'll load up with 180s when I head down there (going today to set up a feeder). That little gun is pretty danged accurate and inside 50 yards I can easily kill a hog broad side with it. At 20 yards it's instant bacon.

 

[Charles S]

Great gun (one of my very favorites) and perfect for your needs.

The Federal 180s will work just fine for what you will encounter. I personally (around your neck of the woods) tend to just use a hot accurate 158 and never feel under gunned.

As several have stated if you want more look to BB or Double Tap.

Good luck.

 

[Jimmy Newman]

On the subject of the Federal castcore ammo, I haven't shot any out of a short revolver, but I shot a deer with the .41 mag variety out of a 6" S&W and was happy with the performance. I took two shots, which were about 2" apart just behind the shoulder. Both bullets went straight through, broke some ribs, and didn't come apart. Both exited the far side of the deer. I think they're maybe overkill for deer with regard to penetration (I'm going to try some gold dots next), but they'd be my choice for hogs, which are a lot tougher.

Also, if you haven't ever hunted alligators, you might be better off running, at least from a big one. They're pretty hard to kill - there's one spot you can kill them pretty easily even with a .22 (center of the top of the head, just behind the eyes) and most everywhere else will make them really mad for a good long while.

 

[mbt2001]

Also, if you haven't ever hunted alligators, you might be better off running, at least from a big one. They're pretty hard to kill

I don't know about running from a gator... Can't they run at like 35mph for short distances? The way I hear it, they stalk. If you didn't know they were there before, it is doubtful you will be aware of them until AFTER they have grabbed you.

You hear about a lot of people going "missing" in Florida. Makes you wonder....

 

[Southern Shooter]

American Eagle 158 Grain JSP

Out of curiousity...As I mentioned earlier in my opening entry...Most of the time I carry American Eagle 158 grain JSP which out of a 4" barrel is pushing 1240 fps with 539 fpe. Out of my shorter barrel, I am again guessing, that velocity would drop to about 1170-1190 fps. http://www.federalcartridge.com/ballistics/Ammo_Search.aspx?act=choose&firearm=2&s1=1

How large of a critter would ya'll feel comfortable confronting with that combination? What kind of damage with this do?

 

[MCgunner]

Gators, just don't go swimmin' with 'em and don't mess with a nest and you'll be fine. They're not real aggressive and danged few people are ever attacked by one that ain't messin' with a nest or something. A shot to the head with a Buffalo Bore 180 should put a BIG one down. Don't tell the game wardens, though, just walk away. You can get off scot free with murdering a man, but a gator, well, 30 days in the electric chair. Even if it's attackin' me, I might think about just donating an arm or something and running. LOL! Better to live with one arm than locked up for life. In reality, if something that rare were to happen to me, I'd shoot the danged thing and walk away and tell no one. Don't be an OJ, keep it to yourself. Don't write a book about how you did it. That might sound a little outlaw, but hey, the law will persecute you for committing self defense against an animal, trust me.

In Louisiana, I doubt that ethos is lost on deaf ears, though. LOL How can we end the war in Iraq? Call all our boys home, send over a platoon of cajuns and tell 'em the season is closed and the limit is two.....

 

[roo_ster]

You'd be surprised how well heavy-for-caliber bullets do out of short bbls.

My 2" .357mag snubby can squeeze an honest 1000fps out of a Winchester Partition Supreme 180gr JHP at 5 yards off the muzzle. That is only 100fps less than Winchester claims for an 8" bbl.

 

[Jimmy Newman]

I don't know about running from a gator... Can't they run at like 35mph for short distances? The way I hear it, they stalk. If you didn't know they were there before, it is doubtful you will be aware of them until AFTER they have grabbed you.

You hear about a lot of people going "missing" in Florida. Makes you wonder....

What I have read recently from people who actually study alligators and alligator attacks, is that if an alligator is after you on land it is almost certainly because you're too close to their nest or young, and that your best course of action is to get away from the nest or young as quickly as possible in a straight line. Along with that, what I have read indicates that there are pretty few alligator attacks on land in general and that those that do occur often have to do with alligators that have been fed (on a regular basis) by humans.

Of course, if you're in the water with 'em, all bets are off. The reading I've done does also indicate that alligators are hunters/stalkers but that they almost exclusively do this in the water and not on land.

 

[langenc]

I dont know about LA but a lot of places up N have all kinds of critters growing pot in the woods or on someones back 40. Run into those folks and whatever you have will work.

 

[MCgunner]

That's a problem, but you're more likely to stumble into a still in west La. LOL

 

[Fisherman_48768]

Southern Shooter: The 357 your carrying will take care of anything in the Oakdale area.

 

[Southern Shooter]

Oakdale...

Fisherman_48768, funny you should know about Oakdale...what do you know about that town? Are from this area originally?

 

[FLORIDA KEVIN]

last year after a couple of well publicized alligator attacks on people the Florida Fish and Game folks released some guidelines for Gator safety ! they said you should carry pepper spray and where little bells on your shoe laces so the gators would hear you coming and hopefully get out of the way ! They also said you could tell the difference in the size of a gator by checking its feces ! Small gators have smaller feces and the feces contain mostly bird or fish bones and smell like ,well feces ! Large gators feces contain little bells and smell like pepper spray !!

 

[Lennyjoe]

I used to carry a 686 with a 2 1/2" barrel when I hunted in Georgia. I carried snake shot instead of bullets.

Only ran into a hog once where we had what I call a Mexican stand off. I came out of the swamp I was hunting after it got too dark to shoot and on the trail out of the swamp I ran into a pretty big brute. We both stopped and faced each other about 10 yards apart. I only had my bow and pistol with snake shot so I was looking for a tree to climb. Thankfully, he smelled me and hooked a u turn and headed out.

As for gators, they didn't bother me too much. Stepped on one early in the morning (before sun up) as I was wading to a stand in the middle of the swamp. It was dark, I had a flashlight and I stepped something that I thought was a log in about 2 feet of water. Well, the "log" moved and I seen the water trail it left behind. Scared the crap out of me.

 

[FLORIDA KEVIN]

seriously ! i have a ruger speed six in 357 mag ! it is my go to gun for any type of trouble ! I like the 158 grain JHPs for most things they shoot well and will kill just about anything you are likely to run into ! I have no experience with heavier bullets in 357 ! as to gators any gator you see will most likely leave you alone unless you get near a nest ! they are a real threat to your dog though!!