Shot DAG Plastic .308 Practice Ammo Today

[soonerfan85]

Recently bought 1,000 rounds of DAG practice ammo and took it out to the range this afternoon for some inexpensive fun. I searched but couldn't find any info on these on THR so here we go.

Conditions were mostly cloudy, humid with a slight breeze.

First photo shows my old Winchester 88 ready for play. How about that fancy rifle rest.

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Here is the target from 25 yds. Not great but better than what I was expecting.

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Here is what the rounds look like compared to a conventional 308 round. According to seller's data, the plastic bullets weigh in at about 11 grains and leave the muzzle at a screaming 4,400 fps.

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Here is the target from 50 yds. The 5 larger holes are from the .308, the others from a .223. Couldn't seem to put the bullet where I wanted it. :banghead:

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And finally, here are what a few of the plastic bullets looked like after passing through 1/4 inch waferboard. The one with the most deformation was fired into a 4x4.



I also shot about 20 rounds at 100 yds but fading light and the limitations of a 1.5-5X scope made it difficult to see where they were hitting. Since it was getting close to supper time and I didn't feel like walking downrange to the 100 yard target board, let's just say that anything past 50 yards is a crap shoot.

Pros: At $.175/round, they're relatively inexpensive to shoot (about the same as .22LR ) and reasonably accurate. Very little recoil (similar a .22 mag). Fired 60 rounds and my shoulder is none the worse for wear. Seems to be clean shooting ammo and left no plastic residue in the barrel. Noticeable muzzle flash visible through the scope. Quieter than conventional .308.

Cons: Not terribly accurate to begin with and even slight wind seems to throw this very light bullet around. Will not cycle semi auto rifles. Most rifles, including mine, have feeding and ejection problems since the rim on these rounds are slightly smaller than conventional .308 ammo. Just know that unmodified rifles will become a single shot while using these rounds.

Lastly a word of caution. Even though these bullets are just 11 grains, at 4,400 fps they can be lethal, as the bird that landed on the 50 yard target board discovered.

 

[General Geoff]

11 grain plastic bullet at 4200fps, I kind of want to see a ballistic gelatin block shot with one of these rounds. Quick calculations show one of those plastic bullets has the same muzzle energy as a 9mm parabellum round.

 

[gunnutery]

Thanks for doing a write up on these. I've seen them before but didn't know anything about them. That'd be something if they're really as potent as a 9mm.

 

[soonerfan85]

They must lose energy pretty quickly when they meet resistance as all the bullets were just barely embeded in the dirt berm behind the plywood target boards instead of being buried in the dirt like conventional rounds. Still, after seeing the damage inflicted on the blackbird I'm positive I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of one of those screaming plastic projectiles.

 

[vtail]

Did they leave any plastic in the barrel?

 

[soonerfan85]

Thanks vtail I forgot to address that.

Upon cleaning the barrel I found the DAG practice ammo to be surprisingly clean shooting, and it left no plastic residue in the barrel. I sprayed M-Pro 7 down the barrel and followed with 2 cleaning patches, then 5 dry cloth patches. The cleaning patches had very little powder/color to them, so I'd have to say I was pleased from that aspect as I'd also wondered if the plastic would cause any issues.

 

[Doc Samson]

Thank you for that write-up! I've thought about buying those on several occasions but seeing as they are not able to cycle, I'm glad I didn't. I would have gotten tired of pulling the cocking handle on my PTR really quickly...

 

[soonerfan85]

From what I've read, these plastic rounds were made to use in HK military rifles using modified (lightened) bolt carriers. Looks like the same can be done with the Cetme. Read this discussion for more information on how to reliably use in a semi auto.

http://www.militaryfirearm.com/Forum/showthread.php?14297-HK-lightweight-practice-carrier-in-a-Cetme

 

[kBob]

When I was stationed in Hanau across the street from the Hesse Police Academy I was told these were used in G1 FN FALs the police trained with with the gas turned off so the gun functioned as a straight pull and on a 25 meter range.

They also used a plastic 9x19mm and a plastic .32 ACP besides training with actual pistol rounds.

A green cartridge than looked much like these, green plastic over a brass head area, was used as a blank. On the green rounds the bullet stayed put but blew out an + shape on the tip. Though I do not see how I was told these cycled the G3 when a restrictive type Blank firing attachment was used. Those were sort of silver colored and had a screw slotted valve adjustment that I was told could be adjusted to work on the Uzi with similar 9mm blanks. Not clear on how it attached to an Uzi, but it appeared to replace the flash suppressor on the G3. No Idea how they worked in the MG3 or MG1 but found them in a pile in a bunker with an MG42 /Mg1 style belt section that still had one round in the last link.

We would take the brass base from the green 7.62 blank and knock out the primer (they were boxer primed) and either cut them down to just the very base or drop the whole thing into an M-16 A1 flash suppressor after removing it from the rifle and then screwing the flsh suppressor with blank base inside back on. If you removed the "excess" brass so only th ebase web was used then it was nigh on impossible to tell there was anything "wrong" with the M-16 A1. We thus called this a "Hollywood BFA" (Blank Firing Attachment) as it was not noticeable. The M-16A1 with blanks then functioned normally in both modes of fire. This was great for yelling at folks acting as agressors from say stateside Reforger units that we had live ammo then firing away. As they "Knew" an M-16 won't cycle blanks with no big red boxy BFA on it they frequently seemed to believe us and perform manuover 1 A 1 A "RUN AWAY!"

No way I would try this with my own AR15, but those M-16 A1s belonged to Uncle.

As we trained initially on the MG1/ Mg3 at 25 yards I suspect these blue rounds must have been used in those as well. The targets were huge like six feet by eight feet images of a field scene with little kneeling man shaped targets on it in various places......think Appleseed subtense targets but for MGs.

I never heard of the light bolts in HKs but saw the HK .22LR subcaliber device in their G3s. I fired the .22LR device at 50 and 100 meters at my shooting club when some reservists were shooting such. At the time reservist could purchase and HK 91 semi only to keep at home and one of our members so liked the subcaliber device he bought one and from time to time brought it and his rifle in. The HK device with its dedicated .22 LR barrel insert was much more accurate than the M-16 A1 converters I used.

-kBob

 

[chicharrones]

Cons: Not terribly accurate to begin with and even slight wind seems to throw this very light bullet around. Will not cycle semi auto rifles. Most rifles, including mine, have feeding and ejection problems since the rim on these rounds are slightly smaller than conventional .308 ammo. Just know that unmodified rifles will become a single shot while using these rounds.

Thanks for the report, I've seen these myself and I've been curious about them.

Are you saying these cartridges are having a hard time extracting from the chamber, or do you mean the cartridges aren't ejecting off the open bolt?

 

[soonerfan85]

I'm not at all familiar with the HK rifles so I hope I'm not talking out my posterior, but believe I read somewhere that in addition to lightening the bolts, the modified HK bolts have the "rollers" removed to function as straight blowback. This allows the lower powered DAG rounds to properly cycle. Early 2012 you could buy the modified bolt and 1000 round for ~$200. Again I may talking out the south end of a north bound horse so don't anyone rush out and buy a modified HK bolt thinking it will work in your rifle based on my ramblings.

 

[soonerfan85]

Chic. About 90% of the time they'd pull free from the chamber OK but not eject. Just had to tilt the rifle to the right and let the spent round fall free. Out of 60 rounds maybe 6 extracted AND ejected properly. They also would not feed at all through the 4 round magazine on my 88, forcing me to use the lever action in single shot mode. Unfortunately that's not unusual for these rounds though. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend these for use in a bolt action or even lever action rifle, just know going in that you'll likely be cycling each round manually.

 

[chicharrones]

Thanks for the feedback, soonerfan!