Shotgun for Home Defense. Pump vs. Auto - your opinion.

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It doesn't matter so much which action type you use as long as you are practiced and experienced with the firearm. These days a good quality semiauto shotgun is apt to be about as reliable as a good pumpgun, given good ammo for both. Reliability is not that much of an issue, and speed of operation is no issue at all- a pump can be run as fast as most semiautos, and a trained and practiced shooter doesn't have to think about pumping the action- it becomes a reflex given time and practice.

So your only real issue is cost- a semi costs more than a pump, usually a good bit more- twice as much or more, even. There is no disadvantage to using a pump, given enough experience with the gun. I grew up shooting pumpguns and have no qualms at all in using any one of several 870s here as a HD tool. If you can afford it, a good semi will do the job for you. If money is tight, you will be at no disadvantage at all with a pumpgun. As Louis Awerbuck says, tis the singer not the song. Your ability is more important than your hardware.

Stay safe,

lpl/nc
 
No Buckshot

Any good pump or auto will do but for God's sake, and the guy who lives next door, do not use BUCKSHOT..

All you need at room ranges inside a house is birdshot. At close range, an we are talking about 15-25 feet here, it will make a large hole which bleeds a lot. Friends of mine go WILD and use #2 shot as their heavy load but most keep #6 to #4 shot loaded.

Try some of these loads at the ranges you anticipate targets and see for yourself. Buckshot is deadly all the way to the end of the block.
 
Let me tell you, American's make one product better than ANY country in the world...the pump-action shotgun! I'll take a Remington, Winchester, Mossberg or Ithaca. I would defend my life with any of these! In fact, I do. However, I do prefer the Remington due to steel receiver, and simple the style. The others aren't bad, it's my preference. Re: auto or pump, simplistic rules. And, yes, pump is as fast as autoload if you are practiced.

Edit to add:

Bird shot...I'm living proof it won't kill at 80ish-100ish yards...it hurts like Hades, but it won't kill! I got hit twice at the range (I believe with 4 shot). It broke my skin, and bled, but it didn't go in. It happened at the Bald Mountain Range, and the gentle man in the clays area was using 4 shot, not 8 shot. He was also using full-power loads...3" magnums. The range officers were absolutely floored. They helped him pack and walked him out.

Oh yeah, and I use either 00 buckshot or buckshot & slugs.
 
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Ah, the #2 shot thing again. So here's the medical journal article again: https://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/173_11_041200/herdson/herdson.html

I use 1600 FPS 8-pellet 00 backed up with full velocity 1 ounce slugs in the 870s here, but have no nearby neighbors (heck, from the front door to the driveway gate at Casa Lapin is 51 yards). It's what you might call rural out here.

Birdshot at sufficiently close range can be lethal and might prove a stopper. But birdshot is better left to the birds IMO, larger projectiles are intended for larger targets and I had rather gamble on something else. YMMV of course, it's your assault/gunfight/home invasion/robbery attempt etc., and I don't have an invitation so I won't be there.

Stay safe, y'all,

lpl/nc
 
birdshot no good.
00 buck good

personally prefer hardcoated #4 buck.
people who think #4 is small ought to cut one up and look inside. those are NOT small balls. think of being hit by about 35 .25 caliber balls...
 
It depends on if you practice and hunt with the type of shotgun you want to use. Some people shoot lots of rounds with pumps and can be very fast with them. Others grew up on autos and really, like automatic transmissions, they are just used to pressing on the gas pedal.

Now if you are klutzy, I guess an autoloader (but racking the action at night, and not touching the trigger, is not a klutzy activity!)

Since I grew up with pumps, a 590 Mossie and 870 Remington are my two scatterguns. 590 is chromed with rifle sights, the 870 is a Magnum Marine. Both are hell-on-wheels.

But if I shot autoloading shotguns more, then maybe I'd pick a M2 or Remington 11-87.
 
If ur lookin to buy a shotgun get a Mossberg with an 18.5 inch barrel. Either way with a pump, if u heard that "ker-chunk" sound what would u do. If for some reason they are still around afterwards and u get to the point where u have to shoot make sure ur loaded with 7.5 shot which for one thing will mess the "bad guys" up pretty bad and for another if anyone else is in another room u dont have to worry about the shot passing through the wall
 
I keep a Remington 870 20" with 8 shot extension cruiser ready. Also keep a Mossy 835 24" loaded. I'm of the opinion that you can never have too many scatterguns :). Others have answered your question well. Auto vs. Pump just depends on how much you want to spend and which you want to spend some time with. It's the software after all as long as you have quality hardware. I've owned a few autos, Rem 1100 being one of them. If I were buying another it would be either the 1100 or 11-87. I also had a crappy Chuck Daly that liked to light strike primers. Not good.

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Birdshot may kill a BG but it won't STOP him as fast. I want him down and out of the fight or the fight out of him NOW. I have a wife and two small kids to protect. I worry more about the BG spraying and praying in my house than where my lead is going. I know where my kids are, he doesn't and could care less.

My house is also set up to where I don't have to worry about shots inside my house or outside. My plasma TV will be toast if I'm shooting down the hallway toward the front foyer but it can be replaced. Think through your tactics in your home. Know where your lanes of fire will be. Some houses are easier to defend than others. Work this stuff out ahead of time. Then bring enough gun.

My 870 has 5 00 buck followed by 2 1oz Brenneke KO slugs. If that don't stop him nothing will.
 
If ur lookin to buy a shotgun get a Mossberg with an 18.5 inch barrel. Either way with a pump, if u heard that "ker-chunk" sound what would u do. If for some reason they are still around afterwards and u get to the point where u have to shoot make sure ur loaded with 7.5 shot which for one thing will mess the "bad guys" up pretty bad and for another if anyone else is in another room u dont have to worry about the shot passing through the wall

That dreaded ker-chunk sound makes a dandy target for anyone armed who has some training. Birdshot does not penetrate bad guys enough to bet your life on it stopping them quickly. Birdshot is for the birds and buckshot is for larger targets.
 
Thanks to everybody for the wealth of information in your responses. I am learning a lot from the responses. The main thing I have learned is that the most important thing with any gun is USER TRAINING and being practiced and experienced with the gun he chooses and to have a gun that fits him and he is comfortable shooting. If I choose the Pump it will probably be the 870, if I like the fit and feel. If I go with the Auto....Hmmmm....I don't really want to have to deal with gas operation and would want the simplicest mechanism. I have the S&W 916-A, which I want to replace, in the closet which I have never shot and I have a full box of NO. 8 shells too. It would be wise for me to shoot up that box of shells plus more and get the "feel" of the pump before I buy another one. The only shotguns I ever shot were single/double barrels and bolt actions. When I was younger I did a lot of shooting so I do practice proper gun safety.

When I make up my mind and make a purchase after checking out different guns for feel and fit for me, there is a place I think I can possible go to and shoot a lot even if I have to become a member and that is the gun and skeet club where I live. Great, Huh? I am 55 years old now. When I was 14 I went there as a jr. deputy with the sheriff's deputies and did get to shoot 4 clays and I hit em all. It was fun. We shot 22 rifles every Saturday for about 10 weeks, got to shoot pistols and got to see a Thompson Sub Machine gun fired. We even got to tour Louisiana's Angola State Prison, New Orleans Parish Prison and they took us to an LSU football game. Everyone needs to tour a prison. Makes you think twice about committing crime. Sure got my attention. I seen enough to know I never want to go there.

Ammo Choice. You guys gave many good opinions on which ammo to use in different enviornments. I live alone so for me it's probably gonna be 00 buck or No. 4 buck and can't forget about slugs depending on how they shoot in the gun I purchase. My nearest neighbor to the North is over 150 yards. East about 100 yards is a gravel pit office inhabited during the day but not at night. I have no wife, no kids which means no help, no backup. My only "friends" here in a hostile situation are Mr. Sig Sauer, Mr. Smith, Mr. Wesson and Mr. Peter Beretta and the "punch" they carry directed by me. They need to carry a powerful punch. I like what I read about 00 buckshot going through walls and here is why. If a BG "thinks" he is safe behind a wall in MY house after he has damaged my property by forcing his way in trying to get me or what is mine, I want him to rethink it as he lays on the floor after them OO's reached through that wall and got him. When my only gun was my S&W Mod. 66 357 I loaded it then and still today with staggered hollow point and FMJ. The first shot is HP looking for flesh. The second is FMJ in the event I miss with the HP and he or she ducks behind a wall. So, I live alone and the "friends' I have with me must pack a powerful punch, even enough to disable a vehicle......getaway vehicle.

I have a monitored alarm system. My wakeup to alarm weapon of choice, which is a one second grab on the night stand, is the P226 9mm. The shotgun would be my choice for a stranger knocking at the door who after knocking for a while decides to check the door knobs to see if they are unlocked. That's where the "click-clack" sound of the pump may come in handy or even better.....Ker-Chunk. I just learned those two words from other good reply posts. "Click-clack" sounds scary but KER-CHUNK sounds DEADLY. Another term I just learned is....shortstroking. Hmmm, that could be a problem but after training with the gun enough it shouldn't be a problem or at least I would know how to deal with it. I know any gun can fail. Having a backup would be the thing to do. Backup to the shotgun, for me, would be the P266 or mod. 66.

Finally, if you're wondering why all the concern or paranoia, here is a true story that happened to me. I lived alone in a mobile home next to my mother's house. One Christmas Day, in the early nineties, after going back to my trailer after the family get together I heard a car drive up while I was watching TV. A passenger gets out, comes upon the porch and starts knocking. I look through the peephole in the door and recognize the guy as one of the customers that used to come to my parents grocery store. He had and still has a record for theft and dope a few miles long. Well, he continued to knock but I played possum and was very quiet. Then, I heard him check the door knob to see if I had possibly left it open. Then he walked to the back door and checked that door. THEN....I GOT MY P226. My heart pounding, I said to myself....Oh S....T. Then, he climbed on the tongue of the trailer and proceeded to try to take off the screen to the window. Heart really pounding now. I stood in the hall shielding myself, gun aimed at the window. He was trying to pry out the screen and the window. Thoughts flying through my mind........."Am I gonna have to shoot this Bastard? Legal implications. Living with the thought I killed someone. Is this amount of force necessary in this situation? Teaching career. jail?......ANGOLA?????" The intruder at this point decided to give up and leave. Whew! I called the Sheriff's office. They came over and saw where he tried to come in. They arrested him. He admited guilt and served about 10 to 12 months for his actions. Was he armed? I doubt it. Would I have shot him if he had broken in the window and actually jumped in the trailer? I would have. However, I'm glad things turned out the way they did. Woulda been nice to have a KER-CHUNKER.
 
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If ur lookin to buy a shotgun get a Mossberg with an 18.5 inch barrel. Either way with a pump, if u heard that "ker-chunk" sound what would u do. If for some reason they are still around afterwards and u get to the point where u have to shoot make sure ur loaded with 7.5 shot which for one thing will mess the "bad guys" up pretty bad and for another if anyone else is in another room u dont have to worry about the shot passing through the wall

Despite all aspects of this "expert" advise being thoroughly debunked, it continues to be spread, like so much cow crap on a boot sole.
 
The Rem 870HD with or with out the mag extension is hard to beat. I got one and I never lack for comfort when I here something. I have a Beretta for when I have to go check out a noise and the shotgun for when they come for me and I want to stay put. 99.99% of the time, it is a racoon or other stupid thing but if people ever break in, I want something I know will work. Pumps are reliable and 12ga is about as much power as you can get in a shoulder fired weapon.

I have AKs, ARs, an UZI a bunch of handguns and other rifles but the ones I trust my life to are the Rem 870 and the Beretta 92fs. Both have proven themselves as rugged and reliable.
 
Known quality and training.

Either pump or autoloader will work, just avoid brands you've never heard of for 100 bucks at the pawn shop. Go with a known maker, reliable model. Then take that shotgun and get some training. Using it for a few days heavily will let you decide what, if anything, you want to change.
 
This is where the training comes in. You should have so many rounds through your shotgun that you don't have to think about working the slide; you just work the slide and engage the next target, subconsciously.

While your adrenalin is pumping you will pump subconsciously anyway. I have found myself doing this during high stress hunting in the woods and I have yet to practice shooting my shotgun.
 
My humble 1/50th of $1 on home defense shotgun...

I have a Maverick 88, set up with the 18-1/2" cylinder-bore barrel. Inside that is 5+1 rounds of 3"Mag #4Buckshot, and 5 PMC brand slugs on a butt cuff.

Through use of the pattern board, and the associated sore shoulder, etc, I have found that the Rem 3" #4Buck works best in MY shotgun. #1Buck is decent, 00Buck ain't worth a hoot-in-Hades. 00B at more than 15 Yds in MY gun is all over the place...maybe 1 or 2 hits on a standard sillouhette target.

PMC slugs have given me the best groups @50Yds, the Brennekke "KO's" are only a fractional bit larger groupings, the Rem "Sluggers" and Fed "Classic" slugs are very poor accuracy wise...again, in MY gun. Shooting buddy with the very same setup has almost exactly opposite results in HIS Maverick....Sluggers, Fed Classics, and the Win 'silver box' slugs are great in HIS gun, PMC's are less than worthless. Brennekke KO's are also good in his.

So, practice A LOT with the HS shotgun you like. Buy a box of as many different brands & sizes of slugs/buckshot that you can find, and test them out.
 
No Buckshot

I use buckshot (Fed reduced recoil 00) because I want to be able to hit what I'm aiming at at the end of the hall. My shotty+buck combo is good for headshots at 15yards, wouldn't try it with birdloads.
 
I have both, a winchester 1300 and a saiga 12...I think I would use the auto saiga 12 first though.
 
Stick with the 870 and spend the money you save on shells to practice with. Chris Rhines speaks the truth.

Train, Train, and Train some more.

With a little effort I am comfortable with my rack, shoot time with my 870.

Not that you should ever count on the bad guys not reacting, but if you are shooting at them with a shotgun I'd be surprised if they stuck around past two rounds.
 
I know of one definate case where a home owner did rack his shotgun and caused three men who were tresspassing to get.. and get out of there fast.

I can't say of any studies where racking a shotgun is definatly the way to go, but we do know police do rack their shotguns and sometimes it does take the fight out of criminals.

It is also known that in India the British would call to load guns and that alone would stop many a riot.

So I would not discount out of hand the effect of racking a shotgun. Not saying it would have a postive effect everytime, but there are times I think it would cool things down.
 
That's good:

If God intended us to shoot
over and unders our eyes would
be one atop the other not side-by-side

:D
 
you know...i don't visit the shotgun forum that often. but when i do, i am inexplicably drawn to these HD threads. and it amazes me how quickly they degenerate into "bird vs. buck" and "to rack or not to rack?"

anyways...
- i would recommend buckshot over bird. as already stated by the shotgun gurus on this board, birdshot is for the birds. with regard to over-penetration, i suggest practice on shot placement.
- as for racking, i just skip the whole debate and use a short SxS. fewer shots, of course, but that's what the handgun is for. it's also what practice is for. but if you insist on keeping the chamber empty on your pump action, i suggest the "ker-shuck" be immediately followed by a "boom".
 
I'm not going to go into the debate about the tactical advisability of racking the pump gun for the effects of the sound it makes.

But because this is a debate on the differences between the pump gun and the auto, I want to set the record straight about something.

Many people seem to feel that the "racking sound" is a benefit that is only available to pump gun owners.

Sorry, but that just isn't the case.

I have an 11-87P. It's an automatic shotgun made for cops. In my eyes, it's just about perfect for dealing with bad guys.

For those that have never taken one apart, the 11-87 is basically an 870 with a spring in the stock and a gas piston where the pump handle goes.

There's a gizmo in the loading door on the bottom that locks the slide open, but otherwise the two guns are very similar and work the same way.

When you fill the mag on that 11-87 and "Rack the action" to put a round in the chamber, it goes "Ker- chunk" just like a pump gun does.

I absolutely guarantee that a bad guy hearing that sound is NOT going to think "That's not a pump gun".

So, the whole concept that a pump gun can be given extra points because of the sounds it makes just isn't valid.

Picking up any shotgun that has a full mag and charging it will make that noise.
 
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