Should I buy an R51?

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Local Cabelas has a couple on the shelf last night but I was there too late to handle one. I intended to buy a gen one until I racked the slide and it stayed racked with no mag in the gun. I like the styling and the idea of the R51. It would be a curiosity and range gun not necessarily a carry piece.

"On sale" price is $400. Wiki arms currently shows at least one online retailer who is selling for $349 shipped. But then add $25-30 FFL fee and prices are closer.
 
Even range guns should work right out of the box. Sending a gun back to the manufacturer should be the exception, not the rule - but with the R51 you might as well budget return shipping right up front. Spend your money on something of higher quality, like a Jennings.
 
Save you self a lot of money and a lot of hassle, don't buy an R51. In fact don't buy any Remington products, they can't seem to maintain any quality control.
 
No.

It's not rocket science to produce a pistol that works well out of the box. A few examples of blems is acceptable, but not every single pistol made.

Remington is going to have to make some hardcore excellent products to make up for that mess.

(IE: Rugers precision rifle is starting to warm me back up towards Ruger)
 
Not until it's proven to work. If you're looking for a concealable 9mm take a look at the Ruger LC9S Pro or the many other options that are available.
 
Duly noted, but how does it get proven if nobody will buy one based on the previous catastrophe? When do we give credit to the company for recalling them all and (hopefully) fixing the issues? How long do we hold a grudge?

Of the posters above, did any of you purchase a first gen R51? Do any of you own a 2nd Gen? I'm very curious.

LC9S Pro is on the short list, as is the Walther CCP. I kinda like having examples of "alternative" action types rather than just another Glock (I have glocks also).
 
Consider the original 51. I have one, and it's one of my favorite pocket pistols and has been absolutely reliable. I paid around $350 for mine, but I suppose the price is higher now.
 
I'd like one but cabela's doesn't carry it. Money is nonexistent and I'm using points. And there are quite a few other guns I want before an old 51.
 
If you want it, why not? You know there's a risk of some hassle, and maybe it has to go back. But so long as you're not betting your life on it, it's a perfectly reasonable risk to assume if you want to.

I'd like to have one that works too. You might get lucky.
 
I read a report on another forum from a guy who, knowing the history of gen 1, bought a gen 2, ran about 120 rounds thru it the day he got it without issue. Said it was very soft shooting even with +P stuff. One is anecdotal, but there will be other risk-takers who come along.

RMD
 
Duly noted, but how does it get proven if nobody will buy one based on the previous catastrophe? When do we give credit to the company for recalling them all and (hopefully) fixing the issues? How long do we hold a grudge?

Of the posters above, did any of you purchase a first gen R51? Do any of you own a 2nd Gen? I'm very curious.

LC9S Pro is on the short list, as is the Walther CCP. I kinda like having examples of "alternative" action types rather than just another Glock (I have glocks also).
If you search there is one other thread where another member has a gen 2 R51....and it doesn't work.
 
Duly noted, but how does it get proven if nobody will buy one based on the previous catastrophe? When do we give credit to the company for recalling them all and (hopefully) fixing the issues? How long do we hold a grudge?

Of the posters above, did any of you purchase a first gen R51? Do any of you own a 2nd Gen? I'm very curious.

LC9S Pro is on the short list, as is the Walther CCP. I kinda like having examples of "alternative" action types rather than just another Glock (I have glocks also).
I wouldn't consider it a grudge. It's more along the lines of being cautious given the recent history of this gun. If this is the gun you want and given that you don't plan on carrying it, give it a try. I've taken chances on a number of guns. Some I kept, and the ones I didn't like I sold. The loss I took was usually the price of a night out. If you're simply looking for a smaller single stack 9mm, as I mentioned before there are more proven options available.
 
Went intending to buy, but talked myself out of it. Primarily because I stood at the gun counter for 10 minutes and nobody said a word to me. There was hardly anyone in the store. 2 other guys were waiting and also got no attention. There were 2 "outfitters" helping other customers but several "outfitters" walked by, and in and out, and past us without a word.

So I went and bought some jeans.

I also decided that IF the SAA I have on 2-year-backorder ever happens to come in by some stroke of good fortune I'll need the points. But I doubt it. Hopefully by next year when I turn 45. I guess I need to buy a .44 this year. :)
 
The new R51s are tops. I've heard very little in terms of negatives UNLESS you intend to feed it garbage trash steel cased ammo.
 
Consider the original 51. I have one, and it's one of my favorite pocket pistols and has been absolutely reliable. I paid around $350 for mine, but I suppose the price is higher now.

Try twice that, generally. People say the R51 is a dumb buy, but I wonder what they'd say about a six-seven hundred dollar 32/380acp? ;) (even if it's production quality is top notch, and you find an example that hasn't broken its breechblock...yet)

The new R51s are tops.
"Tops" like 'runs like a top,' or as in "the highest point of something?" I like the design as much as any, and cheerlead its potential more than most, but I think suggesting these guns are particularly 'anything' but interesting is irresponsible at this point. What the Gen 2's definitely seem to be is better than the Gen 1's. Sadly, that's not nearly enough to be competitive on its own merits, so Remington will have to continue to improve the product --as they admittedly did with subsequent production of Para and Marlin products that were initially garbage-- if they wish this line to stay around for much longer.

I've said from almost the get-go that it was a grievous mistake to dive on into the 'budget' end of the pool with these guns. While they are no longer known for it, Remington actually is capable of quality when they charge enough for it. had they introduced the pistol like S&W did the Registered Magnum, and offered a custom-shop-tuned, polished/blued slicked up version of the gun with a crisp trigger & fully loaded with the third-party goodies like night sights and holsters, and put it in something fancier than a cardboard box...

...they'd have been able to charge upwards of $1000 dollars for it to guarantee quality & function were excellent, generate a ton of positive reviews, gun-envy, and general good will toward the Pedersen action and Remington proper, "priming the pump" for subsequent pedestrian versions at a lower price point, perfected using the higher profit-margins and expectations of the luxury variant. Luxury buyers, believe it or not, are actually more tolerant of foibles since the guns are not expected to be such working tools, so long as the machines are legitimately quality.

Churning out a half-baked production prototype at a soon-to-be-closed factory using worn or incorrect tooling that leaves badly off-spec parts, cheap stamped or MIM parts to excess, that is then assembled & finished in Remington's patented "cover the awful tool and grinder marks with coarse bead-blast & parkerization finish" so they could compete on price with competitors who'd paid off their tooling (let alone design) costs years ago, was basically the worst strategy imaginable. Well, short of slipping a pre-production model into the scene of a high-profile murder :p. It was actually so bone-headed an execution, with such obvious alternate paths that'd have been hard to screw up, that I almost wonder if there was some sort of tax-dodge grift a-la The Producers going on, or something. Lord knows they got to write off a ton of operating losses what with the R51, and the 700 triggers, and AAC cratering, and the shuttering of many of their factories.

TCB
 
Not holding a grudge - Remington's never done anything to me - but they simply haven't earned the benefit of the doubt with the R51. It's an interesting gun but the execution has been abysmal and it's done even more damage to Remington's reputation, which has suffered badly in recent years. Remington and its associated Freedom Group companies make several products that interest me, but I don't trust their quality control enough to take a chance on them, so my business goes elsewhere.
 
Remington will send a shipping package to you that takes care of the overnight shipping costs if you need a warranty repair. I think you should go for it. I went with the Walther PPSM2 but if you like the alternative design of the R51 then give it a try. Best of luck.
9 fingers
 
Remington folks say they have worked out the bugs. We'll see. I intend to buy one after I pay for the boat I just bought. My gun guy will sell it to me for $375 + tax. Academy has them for $399. Several on GunBroker for just over $400. The one I handled in Academy looked and felt like a first class pistol. It seems like the perfect carry pistol and looks really slick. Would hate to send it back, but I returned a Savage 22 Hornet and they sent a new one that has been flawless. So of course we always want problem-free performance, but returning a gun isn't the worst thing.
 
Personally I wouldn't be in a hurry, given the model's past history and outrageous customer service. Supposedly the previous ills have been corrected but I would prefer to let others prove it.

I have always made it a point to give any entirely new model 12 months to prove its worth, and then thought about getting one. This position has saved me a lot of grief. :uhoh:
 
I now have 400 reliable rounds through my second gen R51, 300 of 115 grain ball ammo and 100 rounds of defense hollow-points. I am pleased with mine.

BOARHUNTER
 
I sure as heck am not rushing out to get one.
the last time they came out, they wasted millions on marketting, pushed for every online gun blog in existence to do reviews of it before it came out and most couldn't actually bring themselves to say it was ok, no less good and then less than 6 months after the hit shelves they very quietly recalled them and said that they would return the guns after they had worked out the kinks that "arose with mass production" and then there was not a single word for the last 2 years before they quietly rereleased them...

so if it's all the same with everyone else... I'll let someone else be the guinea pigs on this one.
 
Short answer: DO NOT BUY!.

Some may have seen another thread where I said I handled one last weekend and wasn't crazy about the trigger and grip safety feel and chose not to buy it. Well, this week I went to sell 3 guns at my local gun pusher and while I was trading with $700 to spare, I noticed two spanking new R51's in the case and I caved. Yes, I'm weak. I had just waited too long for it to pass it up with cash in my hand.

So, tonight I went to shoot it. It grouped the first ammo (Tulammo 115 gr) that I put through it in a reasonable group size...unfortunately 2 inches to the right of the aim point at 7 yards. 147 grain Remington shot similarly to the right and lower. Thus, out of the box, it was aligned terribly. My own reloads, an admitted powderpuff 124 grain load that cycles a PX4, EMP4, and Beretta 92 just fine, stovepiped on every round...just not enough power to cycle the slide fully and reseat a round.

The real trouble, though came when I went to clean it. Disassembly went fine, although holding the barrel spring compressed is pretty tough and couldn't be done by someone with disabilities. I drifted the rear sight (to the left, correct?) and then went to reassemble. About 1 hour later I finally got the pistol to cycle correctly. Putting the barrel back in (step 2 after the bushing and spring go in) is a difficult alignment but I got it done. Drop in the Pedersen block just fine. Slide the slide back on the rails; no go! The Pedersen block, when the barrel is in place, rides too high and won't let the slide pass in the rail. I watched the Remington video twice; no help. Finally, one of the "amateur" videos showing reassembly suggested that the barrel MUST again be held in protruded position while you replace the slide. So try doing that while you also are holding the frame and slide and putting it all together!

Much more difficult than a 1911, actually took longer to learn than my Ruger Mark III and it takes more muscle. So, until someone makes a threaded device that holds the darned grooved barrel in protruded position....just don't buy one.
 
I shot the original early 1900's version. It worked fine 60+ years later. I fondled a new production Gen 2 the other week. It still felt gritty and I had my doubts that it was the gun Remington was claiming it was. :scrutiny:
 
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