SHTF Shotguns ...

[Dave McCracken]

I thought long and hard about this, and I hesitate to stir things up, but....

In my unhumble and jaundiced opinion, anyone spending more on hardware than ammo and range fees needs to rethink their priorities.

If our shotguns of choice(Assuming it's our only shotgun) have less than a couple thousand rounds through it, including at least 10% total of the ammo we'd bet our life on in a crisis, we shouldn't be adding stuff to it. We should be buying ammo.

Once you're abso-$%^&*(ing deadly with a stock shotgun, then add whatever you think will help direct that cloud of shot to the target in comfort. Once fit and form are good, the amount of stuff on the weapon tends to be minimal.

Be able to load, unload,reload, make safe, make ready, employ, and repeat as needed under stressful conditions in uncertain light, with some cross handling.

Be able to hit multiple clays in short times, with 90% hits or better, or able to drop 5 steel targets in less seconds.

If we can do that, we're Shotgunners. If not, we're just shotgun owners and very likely to suffer in times of peril.

 

[JOE MACK]

The shotgun I'd use is the one that feels like an extension of my limbs. The Remington 870 express worked over by Hans has over 7800 rounds through it now. I've taken shotgun classes from FS, GS, and TR. Everytime I go, I learn something new. I was also taught combat shotgun in the military. One can have their cake and eat it, too. One should acquire the best equipment AND training they can within their means. The gray matter between your ears is your greatest weapon.

 

[JShirley]

Reckon I'd have my Mossberg 500. I'm mostly a slug man, these days, and with the shorter cadet stock, my Mossy just feels right. Plenty accurate with the GR sights, handy, and rust resistant phosphate coating. Yeah, baby.

John

 

[axeman_g]

WOW !!!!

This thread was fun ....

So many different points of view and opinions. This is exactly why I am addicted to this board.

I think Dave makes the greatest point ... AMMO and COMFORT.

I personally try to use one shotgun for everything, birds, clays and social work. I have settled on the Benelli Novas as my platform of choice, 20g 24" hunting arm and a 12g SP for HD and social.

Now, if I could just get better at skeet with a pump I would feel better.

Axe

 

[ducktapehero]

My vote would be for the Ithaca 37. John Browning designed it so it can't be too bad.

 

[444]

I took the Gunsite 260 (Defensive Shotgun) class last week; got home last night. Between the opinions of Gunsite, Louis Awerbuck (the rangemaster for the class) and my own experience, I feel that I have what I consider the ultimate defensive shotgun. I didn't realize this when I showed up to the class. In fact I was really disappointed that I had to use it for the class.
On day one of the class I needed to clear a malfunction which involved slamming the butt of the gun on the ground. My recoil pad (Hogue) had a big chunk of the heel break off. While I was getting that fixed, I got to borrow two other guns and use them pretty extensively giving me some perspective. The first day I used a gun borrowed from Gunsite. It was one of their custom shotguns that the gunsmith their sells. The second day I used a Vang gun. Both these guns had stocks that were too long. Both had ghost ring sights that I didn't care for, both had extended magazine tubes that made them very heavy. One didn't have a tac sling on it making me even more tired.
When I got my gun back, I couldn't have been happier. It is a Remington 870 Express with an 18" Remington factory barrel with factory Remington rifle type sights. It has no extension tube. It has a Surefire 6v light. It has a single point tac sling, it has a 6 round sidesaddle and a 12" lop synthetic stock. I have now run this gun through two different gun schools for a total of nine days of training and somewhere around 1000 rounds fired. Just as a guess I shot maybe 20% slugs, 50% 00 Buckshot, and 30% Birdshot. Oh, and I have owned this gun for at least 10 years and have used it for trap, skeet, sporting clays and hunting before it became a defensive shotgun.

 

[Kestrel]

444 - Good report.

 

[riverdog]

444,
Sounds like a good set-up. What are the advantages of a 12"LOP? I shoot Trap and Skeet with a 14" LOP on both my 870's and Browning O/U. Why would a shorter LOP be better for a defensive gun? Which 6 Volt Surefire do you have?

I have the 20" rifle sight (Tritium) smooth bore on my HD 870; I also added a single round Wilson Combat extension, which is as long as I'd want, the 2 and 3 round extensions add too much weight too far out, for me. The only disadvantage I see is when switching barrels the mag spring is released, whereas on a standard mag the retainer clip holds it all together. A little added weight, but not bad -- one more round when you need it.

 

[444]

I would like to report some of the stuff I learned at these classes, but understand that I am a shotgun novice. I certainly don't consider myself an expert in any aspect of firearms but know the least about shotguns. I have owned and shot, shotguns since early childhood but never really knew much about them. Unlike my other guns I considered shotguns as strictly a tool; I shot them only when I had a specific purpose in mind, cleaned them and put them away. The last few months have been my only real experience with defensive type shotguns or shotgun shooting.
"What are the advantages of a 12"LOP? "
Basically, I was taught to shoot a shotgun the same way as I was taught to shoot a carbine. Standing with my feet almost on line, parallel to the target. In other words, belt buckle to belt buckle to the target. Most people shoot rifles and shotguns much more sharply bladed so that their feet are more in a line perpendicular to the target. When shooting the way I was taught, you want a short stock. One reason for shooting this way is because this is the way you walk. So if you are advancing towards a target, you simply roll the gun up to your shoulder and fire. Another reason you shoot like this is because it is very similar to the Weaver stance in handgun shooting. Yet another reason (that doesn't apply to me) is if you are wearing body armor you are presenting the front of the armor and the trauma plate towards the threat instead of the sides where you have very little protection.
The Surefire dedicated foreend light I have is the cheapest model I am in a hurry right now so I won't look up the model number but if you are interested I can do that later. The dedicated foreend light is one of the only accessories that Gunsite or Louis was really big on. The reason is obvious. You can shoot a shotgun with a handheld light, but it is very difficult to run a pump shotgun with a light in your hand. I was one of only two people that showed up to the class without a dedicated fore end light. After hearing the inital lectures I bought one from Hans Vang and installed it before the second day of class. Everyone in the class had the same light. Everyone in the class was also shooting an 870.
There was so much information I learned at this class that I would like to post, but I will have to think about it when I have more time.
One big thing that I found out is that it is EASY to miss with a shotgun even at close range. Now, I knew you could miss with a shotgun before this class, but I never realized just how easy it was to miss when you are trying to do things quickly and possibly on the move. When you are trying not to expose your body to the threat etc. On the last day of the class I completely missed one target inside an indoor simulator at the range of maybe 10 feet. On an outdoor simulator I completely missed a target at about the same range trying to shoot on the move. Of course I got them with the second round, but the lesson was hammered home. This is one of the disadvantages to the barrel modifications that keep your pattern tight such as the Vang Comp system. You basically have to shoot it like a rifle until the target gets way out of normal defensive range.

 

[goon]

I took a real hard look at my NEF pardner tonight...
I have seen them used on racks for around $60-$80.
I measured mine out.
Even with keeping the 26" OAL and the 18" barrel you could have a very compact weapon that is dead simple and very light and compact. It would also be cheap and use commonly available ammo.
It might jump pretty hard but I have shot single barrels with one hand before and I don't really find it to be all that bad.
I think that shooting a load of #4 buck across the street at a BG with one would convince him that he had made a mistake.
Not a repeater I know but I still think that it may fill a certain niche better than anything else.

 

[Moparmike]

I have now run this gun through two different gun schools for a total of nine days of training and somewhere around 1000 rounds fired. Just as a guess I shot maybe 20% slugs, 50% 00 Buckshot, and 30% Birdshot

How much $$$ have you gone through per class on rounds alone? How does your sholder holdup to that?

 

[444]

In the first class I took I bought a case of slug, and a case of buck from my dealer. I would guess I spent about $150 on the ammo I used in the class; I had some left over. I bought all the bird shot at Wal Mart.
In the class at Gunsite, I took the ammo I had left over from the first class plus I bought their ammo package which was about $500. It was way overpriced, but it is easy to just have them provide the ammo. If I had it to do over again, I would have shot Wal Mart birdshot about 75% of the time and saved about half the money; but I didn't know that at the time.

The shoulder is fine. It is in the technique; making sure the gun is in "the pocket". A lot of people don't know how to properly mount the gun, so they get injured. Over the last month, I have fired over 500 slugs out of my 870 and had no shoulder discomfort at all. My back and feet are another story. Standing up on your feet with a shotgun in your hands for 6-8 hours a day takes a toll on you.