Smoky .38 Special Reloads

[alrutzz]

Hey all,

Just recently got into reloading. Only loaded about 200 bullets thus far through a single stage '72 RCBS JR2.

I noticed when I went to the range last time that the reloads were shooting particularly smoky. I had my brother shoot a few while I taped it so that you could get an idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NCAelMx8cI

The load I was using was:

Roger's Better Bullets 158gr LSWC
3.0gr Clays Universal
Federal Small Pistol Primer

Gun is a 6" ported SW 686.

I searched to see why loads might be smoky and I saw it could be too fast/slow, lube left on the case, wax on the case/bullet etc. I put a tiny bit of lube on every 10th case during sizing. Is that too much? I don't have a chrono so I'm not quite sure how fast the bullet is moving.

If anyone has any ideas on why they might be so smoky, lay it on me! Any kind of advice or criticism welcome!

 

[BullfrogKen]

That doesn't look terribly bad. I've both seen and shot some lead loads that really put out a lot of smoke. You do know lead is going to be smoky, while most jacketed rounds won't be. Have you not shot a lead load before?

 

[rcmodel]

+1

I didn't watch the vid cause my old computer chokes on vids!

But, smoke & cast bullets go hand & hand.
It is unavoidable.

It is burning bullet lube, and has nothing whatsoever to do with case lube left after resizing.

If you must have smokeless loads, your only option is plated or jacketed bullets.

rc

 

[Overkilll0084]

That looks ok to me. My .45 loads are much worse than that.

I'm no expert, but I thought non-jacketed ammo isn't advisable in ported barrels. Yes, No, sort of?

 

[ghitch75]

lube burnin' as said above....

 

[Bula]

Yup, It's the lube. Some will be worse then others. Powder/Lube combinations will vary in smoke as well. Just part of the deal. Now you just need to get yourself a few single action big bores, smoke just looks cooler from them...

 

[rikman]

Thats not bad. You should see my 44spl lead loads,that's smoke

 

[alrutzz]

Thanks all! I figured that lead reloads would be smokier than plated or jacketed, but I didn't know how much smokier.

I just didn't want to ignore it if the gun was trying to tell me something.

 

[EMC45]

Video looked fine to me. My buddy shot some .40 cal. once that I had cast for him and lubed with Lyman Black. I asked him where he found black powder loads for the .40! They smoked like crazy!!! The gun smelled like a house fire when he was done too. He was using Bullseye.

 

[BossHogg]

Try Hornady lead bullets, they coat the whole bullet and don't use lube bands. It's the best I've found in a lead bullet and cuts way down on the smoke. More expensive than cast lead but worth it to me and are still cheaper than plated or FMJ.

I try to use lead for outdoor ranges and plated for indoor ranges. Indoors with 2 or 3 shooting reload cast bullets it looks like a honky tonk at midnight with that cloud of smoke.

Give them Hornadys a try.

 

[gamestalker]

What does the brass look like? Just a general description is fine, as I'm not digging for anything in particular, just curious if the brass is excessively smoked too. The video clip looks like they are deffinitly producing some decent function. Are you seeing any unburned powder or excessive residue?

 

[Hondo 60]

Cast bullets smoke worse than a 3-pack-a-day-chain-smoker.

I've used Goex black powder ammo that didn't smoke as much some of my own reloads.

The only way to get around the smoke is to use plated or jacketed bullets.

 

[Jesse Heywood]

My experience with lead bullets is that smoke is related to the bullet lube, powder and primer. Any combination of the three. I don't let it bother me at the range, as long as I can see the target for the next shot. I've had a few combinations that didn't qualify.

 

[GP100man]

I cast & lube my boolits with Red Carnauba from White Label Lubes , use Hodgdon CLAYS powder in the range you are & get very lite smoke (did`nt watch the vid as I`m on dial-up out in the stiks) But lube & low pressures is a sure recipe for bunches of smoke !

Ya load was probably in the 850-900 fps range , ya may try bumping the powder 1/2gr. or so to clear up some smoke.

 

[zxcvbob]

Try increasing the powder; it'll probably clean up quite a bit. (3.0 grains of Universal is an awfully light load) If you want to load them that soft, try a fast-burning single base powder like Solo 1000.

You're going to get some smoke no matter what; that's part of the charm of lead bullets.

 

[alrutzz]

What does the brass look like?

Like this! Note that this is after 2 firings with no cleaning in between.

The smoke doesn't bother me at all, but to be polite to others at the indoor range I may pick up some plated bullets for when I shoot there.

Thanks for the advice on bumping up the amount of powder. I'll give that a shot the next time I load a bunch of these up and see how it works. I think I may have mistakenly called what I have "Clays Universal" when in reality it may just be "Clays". I was going based off the load data on the Hogdon site. Here's a picture of the powder:



Is there any chance that maybe the LSWC's I'm using aren't the correct diameter? Anyone got a good link for how I can test it out?

 

[Jim Watson]

STOP!

What ever made you think that was Universal Clays?
Do you SEE "Universal" anywhere on that can? I don't.
People say it is hard to tell the difference between Universal Clays, International Clays, and "plain" Clays. It is not hard at all, the cans are labeled with the contents.

You have Clays. "Plain" Clays, not Universal Clays.
Hodgdon's MAXIMUM load for .38 Special 158 gr SWC is 3.1 grains of Clays.
You do NOT need to increase the load. Your 686 .357 would stand an overload by .38 Special standards, but that would still not make the bullet lube smolder less.

I realize you have finally figured this out, but emphasize the need to know what you are dealing with in reloading.


If you want to know the bullet diameter, measure some. Everybody needs a cheap dial caliper on the reloading bench anyhow. For a quick check, you can try some in the CYLINDER. Revolver bullets should be snug in the cylinder throat, then swaged down a bit when they hit the barrel.
It won't make any difference in the smoke, but it is nice to know these things. Like if they were uneven, you could look at a different brand. Or if they were undersize, you would have an explanation for barrel leading.

 

[1KPerDay]

 

[alrutzz]

What ever made you think that was Universal Clays?

Jim, I appreciate your concern, and understand that exercising due diligence is necessary when reloading.

I had heard Clays/Universal Clays used before when doing research. Being that I just started reloading, I didn't realize that there was more than one type of Clays.

I stayed below the max for the lower of the 2 powders just in case. Even if I had added ~.5 gr of powder I still would have been under max.

In my opinion, if this many people are confused by it, why not just change the name? No one was born knowing every type of powder out there.

In the mean time, while I wait to find a good set of calipers, I'll at least make sure the bullet isn't falling clear through the cylinder.

 

[bluetopper]

Smokey loads just tend to raise my testosterone levels.....then blow away in the wind.

Jim is 100% correct though. One must know what he is doing and what contents he is working with before you start throwing gunpowder and primers behind a bullet.

Especially Clays powder!!! It pressure spikes in a hurry if you go over max. I've experimented with it a lot in many calibers and I will never shoot it now in anything else but 45acp and 38 Special.

 

[gamestalker]

Wow, this is another one of those safety things we have been discussing so much lately. Learning the reloading process is involves understanding the jargon, component I.D., how to read a measurment and device, and the ability to read and write!
There are so many powder's out there that are extremely simular in name and description. I'm betting right now as I write that at least someone who belongs to this forum is loading with a wrong powder, regarding what data they are refering to. H, IMR, and all of the other powder's that have a same name or number some where in the labling, that is the same as another completely different powder, is being loaded according to the wrong appication.
I wish there was some way for the bullet or powder manufacturer's to offer a basic reloading class for those who are willing to learn. It's really a serious and quickly escalating matter, and it's becoming more and more serious, as factory ammunition becomes more and more expensive.

 

[Master Blaster]

If you want to load lead bullets and have almost ZERO smoke and no lead fouling; then you want to get a bottle of Trailboss, and the correct load data to go along with it. You will be amazed at how clean and accurate it is when you use it for lead bullet target loads. Its designed for lead bullet target loads in large capacity cases as well and fills them enough so there is no chance of a double charge.

I have tried the vaious Clays powders along with Hodgdon Universal and found them to be lacking in accuracy, velocity, and cleanliness (especially leading).

 

[alrutzz]

I wish there was some way for the bullet or powder manufacturer's to offer a basic reloading class for those who are willing to learn.

Gamestalker, I agree that it is a problem, but I think that it would be more practical for all parties involved to just have clearer product naming schemes.

Its designed for lead bullet target loads in large capacity cases as well and fills them enough so there is no chance of a double charge.

Thanks MB! I wasn't aware that there was a powder created specifically for that purpose. I'll give it a shot, although according to the Midway product description, it seems the tradeoff is less smoke for more residue. Maybe someone local has a bit I can try.