Smother, Stun, Stop

Status
Not open for further replies.

mercop

Member.
Joined
Jan 12, 2003
Messages
663
Location
The hills of PA
There is a lot of money time and energy spent of “knife fighting”. Most will admit the more they know about it the less they want to be involved in a real life edged weapon attack. If you are studying knife fighting as a martial art then this article may not appeal to you.

Much of the typical edged weapon training that is conducted is knife on knife or at least lets you see your opponent’s knife before you attempt a defense. This seems to have very little to do with the reality of edged weapon attacks. Some very extensive studies have been done on assaults involving edged weapons. There are a few core findings that should be considered. The first is that victims initially thought they were being punched and did not realize until afterwards that they had actually been cut/stabbed. So if you are waiting for the visual cue of actually seeing a knife before you respond chances are you will not respond until it is too late.

The second is that it seems to be the last few cuts/stabs that prove fatal. In my opinion this is where training to time and not to standard is a fatal mistake. In training we have a tendency to square off and defend against one specific attack, after that many training partners just back up, regroup and go again instead of redirecting and continuing to attack. This fills classroom time. It can also produce a false sense of security that a foiled attacker will give up or not redirect. If you don’t effectively defend against the initial attack you might not live to worry about any subsequent attacks. Don’t pace your defense, stop your attacker. Another failure is both parties keeping it a knife fight instead of a fight. You see students in great position for an open hand technique but don’t seize it because it is “knife fighting”.

Going back to preparatory movement or the movement that is needed to access and deploy a weapon, these movements are the ones that should elicit defense, not the execution movements themselves. They should be brutal, simple and reflexive. Without talking technique I just describe it as Smother, Stun and Stop.

If we are within arms reach the instinct should be to close the distance, defend our inside, block or evade the attack and access the attackers inside or move to the attackers outside. This is the Smother, think of the attack as flame and your movement deprives it of the oxygen it needs to continue. Oxygen is to a flame as movement is to an attack. You can’t have one without the other.

The Stun is usually open handed and crushing. A brutal strike to the head/face/throat. This violence of action can and should cause a massive disruption of the central nervous or respiratory system.

The Stop is where control comes in. By using Smother and Stun you should have been able to stop the initial attack. If that is not the case hopefully they gave you the split seconds needed to stop the person by joint destruction or other techniques.

This is effective regardless of style and easy to incorporate and learn. You don’t have to spend years practicing it. It should be done with a partner on your own level and who is willing to communicate. Most effective stuns can and should not be practiced at more than 10% and great control should be exercised.
 
Some assumptions you make don't necessarily hold up.

The martial art I practiced for years taught knife fighting. The more I learned the more I didn't want to have anything to do with a knife fight.

The winner in a knife on knife fight is the one who might get out of the hospital...one day.

If I think you have a knife and I don't have a gun, I'm going to be looking for various improvised weapons. A garbage can lid and a garden rake would be good.

If I think you have a knife and I'm unarmed, I'm going to do my best to be gone.
 
I like what you have to say, and essentially agree, with the caveat that evasion and escape may be the best choice. You did say "within arms' reach", so I'm going to (often dangerous) assume you meant to e&e if distance was further. Inside your "bubble" (why would you let someone get this close?!) you should fight the fight because you don't have time to escape.

Byron has good ideas, but he doesn't always carefully consider what the other person has said...I did indeed read you to say (and my research backs this up as well) that in a real attack it might be impossible to know there's a knife until it's in play. In the dojos we trained in, we often had the concepts you mention drilled in: the opponent is the target, not the weapon, there is almost never a "knife fight", etc.

I don't believe knives are generally well-utilized for defensive actions, but always warn folk who want to buy an imposing or wicked-looking knife for its "intimidation value". Byron and I have been known to joke about how badly we were intimidated, forcing us into emptying our magazines into the holder of the intimidating cuttin' piece. :D

The truth, of course, is that the only value a knife can really have defensively is to be used vigorously before the opposition is aware of its existence.

Good post.

J
 
This is for a spontaneous attack. If you kniew it was coming you would have run and if you could not you would have picked something up to fight with. I doubt that you will find a garbage can lid or a rake within arms reach during an attack. That said outside of a firearm the best weapon agaist a knife is a stick.

Knife on knife fights are pretty much a fantasy in the US.

What assuptions did I make that you disagree with?

What I teach should not be considered Martial Arts.

My other thread Accessing, Deployed and Attacking should clear some of this up too.
 
If you are studying knife fighting as a martial art then this article may not appeal to you.

Knife fighting was taught in the martial art John and I trained in but your article in no way lacks appeal. The assumptions I was referring to related to this sentence only.

The self defense legal concept of 'the reasonable man' can cover a great deal of ground. Due to various physical deficits due to health. an unarmed man approaching me aggressively will be met with a handgun presented right then. Unless we're in a secure section behind metal detectors, I'll have a handgun.

I'm well aware that an adept attacker with a knife won't be waving it around. Told a late friend not to do that, six weeks before he took a knife to a gunfight. Mike's knife intimidated the opponent into shooting him in the solar plexus with a 20 gauge slug. Nicked his abdominal aorta. He was conscious when EMS got there according to reports I received. He was DOA at a major emergency department one block away.
 
I am using a lot of this as I write my SAS (Spontaneous Attack Suppression) for Corrections and Law Enforcement.

IMO within arms distance the blade has no equal and I have taken quite a few officers to task on the knife to a gun fight thing, me with a training blade and them with airsoft. As a matter of fact the Chief a retired trooper was going to go for it with me until the Captain talked him out of it. And I consider myself slow.
 
IMO within arms distance the blade has no equal

Got stabbed once. Blocked the thrust and it went into my upper right thigh. Swung an expensive 35 mm camera on its strap as an impromptu mace into the guys' head. Expensive 35 mm camera - 1, BG's head - 0. My thigh - 2 1/2 inch deep stab wound requiring stitches inside and on the surface. The worst part was when the doc stuck his fingers into the wound to probe for broken off pieces of the knife. I know it was 2 1/2 inches because that's how far in he stuck his fingers. Not my idea of a good time.

This happened in a busy market place in a third world country I won't name. Bottom line, I probably shouldn't have been carrying an expensive camera there.
 
Nope, didn't know I'd been stuck, either, until a buddy told me. This was 22 years ago. I've learned how to keep my distance a lot better since then... ;)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top