"Soldier Knives"

[Coop45]

John,
Not really.

0659 is a follow on MOS once you reach E-6/SSGT. There are a few "feeder" MOS's (I was an 0651 but also 0656's and 0653's) that that turn into 0659's when we get promoted to the SNCO ranks. Because the feeder MOS's are very specalized in work scope the Marine Corps has a follow on school for 0659's in 29 Palms CA that covers all the feeder MOS's.

It's more of a supervisor MOS of the Data Platoon in Communications as there is only (1) 0651 by Table or Organization in each Platoon and he is resposible for all the 0651/0656/0653's in the platoon.

Will

What do we call 0369's?

 

[JShirley]

rc,

Most of the US has accepted a certain ethical code. Obviously not every TCN is a pillaging rapist ( ), but TCNs are everywhere, and not all of them have similar ethical/moral codes to US forces. Maybe you also missed the part where I mentioned Romanian forces kidnapping and raping US troops- the last one I'm aware of was a male US AF major.

Understanding "how US wars are conducted" really has nothing to do with controlling the many thousands of individuals on bases who can be dangerous, as people can.

John

 

[kBob]

rc mentioned brush clearing with a sheath knife.

The one real "SOG knife" I got to use had the curved spine sharpened for use as a hand scythe. It was very useful for removing small amounts of brush when approaching a clear area at the crawl. It was somewhat shorter than most of the later post VN knives made by whomever and not that well finished with brass bits dull and leather handle washers of various consistency. Also not one makers mark or such anywhere on it.

I got in hot water on 1981 in Germany for allowing my troopies in the commo section to carry the "USAF Survival Knife" in its sheath in the field. This was the same section I got in trouble for letting use low poser scopes on M-16A1s on. These kids were expected to work in two man teams out alone as wire dawgs between units and up to nine klicks from our HQ Battery.

Only sex I knew of in GI showers in the mid 1970's was when women first started being intergrated into Pershing and a pair of girls were turning tricks in a shower at Graff. They did so much bad for their sisters in arms by being everything the nay sayers predicted and worse. Same pair tried to come out to a Combat Alert Site where women were forbidden and stay at a local Gastehaus to turn tricks. When one of the kids of the owners of the Gastehaus approached me about the problem I was so embarrassed I could hardly speak. Let me also say that some of the women in that experiement were great, even soldier of the quarter quality troopers,.....but everyone there will remember the girls that were for hire and girls that gave favors for promotions and such.

I was approached by Homosexuals twice in GI latrines in Europe in the mid 1970's but these were not assaults and they went away when rebuffed, both were not Army but USAF folks BTW.

Only other thing remotely like sex in the showers with me personally was one Saturday morning finding a local prostitute that had been smuggled into one of the four man rooms in our barracks Friday night calmly taking a shower while one of my room mates and I did so as well. Everyone was polite and just showered.

Later as an Officer I had the problem of shared showers. I never heard of a physical assault but a good bit of peeping. My women had to use the same shower as my men as they lived in the upstairs area of the barracks. Oddly a supported unit occupied the lowest floor and made no real effort to segregate the women's rooms from the men's. When I arrived the solution to the shower problem was a reversible sign that said "Women Only" on one side and "Men Only" on the other. Some wags got great pleasure from reversing the sign, which ever way it was in the hope of an embarrassing situation or as an excuse to peep. This eventually lead to the posting of the assistant CQ as a guard to insure segregation of bathers and to my "finding" a way for the women to have their own shower, I had two shower stalls installed where the Urinals had been( and where before I did it, the gurlz refferred to them as ash trays in those smoking allowed in barracks days) in the latrine they used on their floor.

Anyway no neck knives were needed in the showers that I knew of back in prehistory.

Sounds like a command/leadership problem and folks higher up should be made aware of the issues and higher until something is done.....even if it means restricted shower times and an armed guard on duty.

-kBob

 

[hso]

RC,

It really is completely different than your experience allows you to imagine. Bases are much like small (or not so small) cities with U.S., foreign allies, contractors, local and third country national workers. The larger the base the greater the mix and dependence on contractors and TCNs and LCNs. Operations run 24/7 and people are on those schedules. Assaults and rapes are terrifyingly common since internal security is not high and the American public is hardly even aware of the problem. John has written about it here in THR/NFW and I've added that it is a concern for the civilian contractor personnel as well where these conditions exist. You don't have to be female to be a victim of these assaults either. Think more "prison" conditions than what you're used to.

Stay out of the shower with the TCN's or LN's then??

They're not showering with them. There's no security for shower facilities (and damn little internal security at all) and walking to/from or using a shower or toilet or just down an unlit roadway makes you very very vulnerable to these attacks. My company instituted a mandatory buddy system where no one left the office or CHU after dark without someone with them. That was the best we could do for our employees officially. Unofficially I had my SO provide a list of small inexpensive neck knives that could be locally purchased or ordered so our people had something to use as a tool to defend themselves. It is a different world than you imagine it might be.

 

[JShirley]

Bob,

I'm not certain how attacks by foreign nationals are a leadership problem. Also not sure how you'd find the manpower to post an armed guard on hundreds of different shower facilities on the larger bases. Bases run 24-hr ops, and it's not practical to restrict shower times (though most places will have designated cleaning times).

John

 

[herrwalther]

most common close-range threat a US service member in Iraq or Afghanistan is likely to face: sexual assault

Ah to be in a unit that only allows one gender. At least for the next few years anyway.

We had a female PRT (provincial reconstruction team) officer with us on my most recent tour. She was showering in one of the shower trailers (we went high tech) when a LN contractors (local national) pulled open the door, lock and all. Thankfully, she took my advice/paranoia and was showering with her pistol nearby. No shots fired and he was transferred the next day to somewhere else with the mark on his record. We only had at most 3 females on the base at any given time so they had an hour of designated female hygiene time. Works on small bases, will never work on large ones.

 

[JShirley]

Males raped in theater outnumber females raped, at least in the service branches. Can't speak for contract personnel. Also, that's "sex": gender is attitude, while sex is biology. Yes, it's usually mis-used, because people are used to abbreviating "sexual intercourse" as "sex".

John

 

[mdauben]

Sounds like a command/leadership problem and folks higher up should be made aware of the issues and higher until something is done.....even if it means restricted shower times and an armed guard on duty.

I think "higher" is well aware of the problem. I can't comment first hand on what the situation is like living on-base (CONUS or OCONUS) but I do know that the Army is heavily invested in programs to curb sexual assault for both the active duty and civillian workforce.

 

[JShirley]

I think "higher" is well aware of the problem

Yup. There is a renewed focus on preventing sexual assault, after the 2012 metrics showed a dramatic increase of reported sexual assaults committed against service members.

Part of the problem, though, is that talking about rapes committed by TCNs and allied militaries- which I haven't seen done by US leaders, anywhere- opens a whole new public issue that the most senior leadership just does not want to address. I would guess that it's better business to deal with the occasional rape than alienate allied militaries, and it seems talking about TCN-committed rape is just not going to happen.

John

 

[herrwalther]

Yup. There is a renewed focus on preventing sexual assault, after the 2012 metrics showed a dramatic increase of reported sexual assaults committed against service members.

A little bit too much focused on the problem. Like the 7 hour video on suicide prevention. To quote one of my soldiers "the only time I contemplated suicide was watching the suicide prevention video on a bus ride from Ft Drum." But military policy is off topic.

 

[hso]

Yep

Let's get back on the original topic.

 

[Torian]

I wasn't issued anything aside from a Gerber after spending time in Iraq and Afghanistan. When on patrols in Afghanistan, I absolutely felt like I needed a knife that would be quickly accessible on my kit. I used my own funds and purchased an ESEE 3 MIL. Great knife, and comes with a MOLLE compatible hard sheath and glass-breaker pommel. I loved it...but lost it in an IED.

http://www.eseeknives.com/esee-3-mil.htm

I never heard about any rules that you couldn't carry a knife, and if I did see such memo, I would probably have "forgotten it" shortly thereafter.

We also saw this rational over there when it came to the types of magazines we were using for our M4s. Some people, like myself, brought our own PMAGs to use instead of the crappy issued aluminum ones (frequently caused malfunctions). The CoC tried to keep us from using our own PMAGs...for reasons they couldn't articulate when confronted about it (all the SF guys working adjacent to us were using PMAGs too).

I don't have a lot of patience for REMFs who justify their existence in a combat zone with this type of nonsense.

P.S. we always posted a guard at the showers when the females were there. Out in the boondocks though, the only females we had were FET and some cooks. We were definitely not in FOBBIT land.

 

[kBob]

Nice knife and a heck of a way to loose it. Hope you are doing OK and lost not much more than the knife.

Thanks for being there.

-kBob

 

[Torian]

Nice knife and a heck of a way to loose it. Hope you are doing OK and lost not much more than the knife.

Thanks for being there.

-kBob

Thanks KBob.

Nothing more than some broken bones, TBI, and a blown out eardrum. Considering the blast was estimated at 15000 pounds of HME (coverted fuel tanker), the largest in GWOT history, it could have been worse!

I count my blessings every day since then. If you're interested, here's a video of the blast that the bad guys posted on liveleak shortly afterwards (main blast 2:12):

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1c8_1362739998

 

[JShirley]

Good god.

Where was this? What unit were you in at the time?

I'm used to big explosions, but 35 lbs of Composition B isn't in the same arena as tons of ANFO.

John

 

[Sam Cade]

That is just.....

Wow.


Note to self, buy Torian a beer.

 

[ugaarguy]

Torian, I'm speechless. Thank you for your service.

 

[Torian]

Good god.

Where was this? What unit were you in at the time?

I'm used to big explosions, but 35 lbs of Composition B isn't in the same arena as tons of ANFO.

John

Thanks guys...just another volunteer here.

To answer a few questions:

JShirley, the BOOM occurred in Sayedabad District, Wardak Province, RC-E, in early September 2012. At the time, I had deployed out of 4-1 AD Ft. Bliss in June of that year, and was in Sayedabad an Adviser and Trainer (SFAAT) for Afghan Forces. My team was attached to 2-503 BN, 173 BDE.

If you can believe it, we didn't lose any people even though we had close to 100 wounded. The Afghans weren't so lucky.

Sam, I would gladly drink a beer with you, especially if you are buying.

 

[Lone Star]

Some of what I read here before the topic got back on course was just appalling. Some of you guys no longer in the military should write a magazine article about that. Maybe even a book. I bet it'd sell. When I was in the USAF, I NEVER heard of any such events. Rapes, yes, but conventional ones, addressed as such.

Back on topic, my favorite tear-jerker military knife story involves my son loaning his Randall Model 14 to another guy. An alert sounded and the convoy took off before he could recover his knife. The jerk who borrowed it said that in the confusion, he'd left it on top of a departing vehicle, and it was lost somewhere back on the road. Someone found a free Randall knife!

That's one reason why he was later reluctant to carry an expensive knife in a battle zone. Not that I think anyone asked to borrow Gen. Westmoreland's Randall in Vietnam... (If you didn't see it in news photos then, he had a Randall Model 1 with a white handle, maybe ivory. In WW II, Gen. Gavin wore a Randall while leading the 82nd Airborne in battle. I've seen photos of him also lugging an M-1 rifle as well as his .45. He was evidently a fighting general, if need be.)

 

[herrwalther]

15000 pounds of HME

That probably left an impressive hole. AAF in our area were not fond of IEDs at all, preferred to stand fighting instead. I think our worst one was fifty pounds of HME in a culvert that was CONDET. Had some fun with a 500 pound Russian UXO though. That was about it.

Lots of guys will spend insane amounts of money on a knife that will more than likely get lost/stolen/destroyed. I have seen it happen in every unit I have worked with or served in. An E-6 I deployed with brought a custom knife along that (he claims) cost him a grand, never used it, never even took it out of his box. Stolen in Pakistan while shipping out. Along with the rest of his equipment in that box. I had plenty of knives on my deployment but the most common one I carried (and still do) is a Smith and Wesson M&P MAGIC Assisted opening knife that runs about $35. If it breaks, gets lost, stolen it is only 35 bucks. Not that big of a deal.

 

[JShirley]

I had a classmate in BOLC who had a S&W she said she took everywhere with her. I gave her a new Endura, and told her to take it, instead.

 

[HoosierQ]

I have never had the privilege to serve in the armed forces.

I am really liking (with some key reservations) the Victorinox Soldier Knife. Too easy right! At first I was a little squimish about the partially serrated blade. Unlike so many, the serrations are at the tip and the plain part is at the riccasso. However I have grown to like this a lot. Victorinox did the serrations right. They are ground and placed perfectly for what I would assume a soldier would need to do a lot of: Cut through a zip tie, cut a packing strap, cut open tough packages, cut through fabric (like searching an overstuffed chair sort of thing).

What changes would I make? Significant. I like the main blade as noted above. The saw seems pretty useless to me. I would replace it with opposing sissors and one of the small Tinker blades. I would also add the tweezers. I think this is a real failing of the thing. I can't imagine that a soldier, serving anywhere, would not get splinters! If I had to give up the can opener I'd do so. Not sure how many cans soldiers open these days and even if they did, I much prefer the old M38 or whatever that little thing is that was the standard can opener for so long. I use one every day to open cans of soup and stuff at work. It is so much faster than the Victorinox can opener.

So take the Vic "Soldier Knife" swap out the saw and swap in a small, keen, fine blade and sissors...and for God's sake add tweezers...I think you'd have just about the perfect knife for somebody needed to keep weight and clutter down to a minimum.

 

[Torian]

Another problem that frequently prevents us from bringing good knives is that Customs can really hassle us on the way back to the states.

When my unit redeployed to the states from Iraq, about 10% of us had to completely empty all bags in front of a customs agent, and if he found anything he didn't like, such as a folder over 3.5 inches, anything with a clip point or double edge, or anything spring loaded / spring assisted, they would confiscate them.

I had some knives that I wanted to bring with me at the time, but was worried about losing them on the way back in. Customs can pretty much operate with unilateral authority in these matters...so if they decide they want to take something you are screwed.

 

[HoosierQ]

Another problem that frequently prevents us from bringing good knives is that Customs can really hassle us on the way back to the states.

When my unit redeployed to the states from Iraq, about 10% of us had to completely empty all bags in front of a customs agent, and if he found anything he didn't like, such as a folder over 3.5 inches, anything with a clip point or double edge, or anything spring loaded / spring assisted, they would confiscate them.

I had some knives that I wanted to bring with me at the time, but was worried about losing them on the way back in. Customs can pretty much operate with unilateral authority in these matters...so if they decide they want to take something you are screwed.

It just shocks me that our troops are treated this way! I get that there has to be some control but to let a bunch of customs folks basically steal from service personnel coming back is just a travesty! If these troops need to have their stuff searched so nobody has gone into the drug smuggling business or something then I say let the Army or Navy do the searching. But what do I know.

 

[JShirley]

You need an authorization letter to bring back automatics. It should list the NSN of the knife, and state that you used it in performance of your duties.